The Tone Thread

[JD01]

Yeah...I hate the 2210 sound in these clips.

It's everything I don't want in an amp: dark yet brittle. How does that happen???? I don't know, but I hate it.

Its certainly one of the worst tones I've heard you post - reminded me of my Blackstar a little bit - that muffledness. I'm sure you could dial it it... but then what's the point in the putting the effort in when your usual JCM800 does what you want with virtually no effort at all.

[Greg_L]

Its certainly one of the worst tones I've heard you post - reminded me of my Blackstar a little bit - that muffledness. I'm sure you could dial it it... but then what's the point in the putting the effort in when your usual JCM800 does what you want with virtually no effort at all.

It reminds me of the JCM 900 MkIII. That's a great amp until you gain it up.

On the normal channel, the amp sounds pretty much like any Marshall, for the most part. Bright and barky. Dial in the diode-clipped gain and then the yucky starts. Then you max the gain and it starts to sound okay again. So for me, a hack that lives in the mild-ish gain range, this amp is in it's worst zone. I'll do a clip of the normal channel and one at max gain today and we'll see what's up.

[JD01]

Its certainly one of the worst tones I've heard you post - reminded me of my Blackstar a little bit - that muffledness. I'm sure you could dial it it... but then what's the point in the putting the effort in when your usual JCM800 does what you want with virtually no effort at all.

It reminds me of the JCM 900 MkIII. That's a great amp until you gain it up.

On the normal channel, the amp sounds pretty much like any Marshall, for the most part. Bright and barky. Dial in the diode-clipped gain and then the yucky starts. Then you max the gain and it starts to sound okay again. So for me, a hack that lives in the mild-ish gain range, this amp is in it's worst zone. I'll do a clip of the normal channel and one at max gain today and we'll see what's up.

Cool, when you have it cranked try popping a boost/TS into it too, see how well it does the 80s thing.

[Greg_L]

Cool, when you have it cranked try popping a boost/TS into it too, see how well it does the 80s thing.

It's entirely possible that there's maybe something wrong with this amp. This amp is owned by the same guy that owned that old original Jubilee that I hated too a while back. I also think there was something wrong with that amp. So maybe he has some bad amp voodoo or something.

[Greg_L]

This guy got pretty much the same results..

[BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp8DynXq5R4[/BBvideo]

[WhiskeyJack]

Ok well I've heard enough.

JCM 800 2210 vs JCM 800 2203

2210 "lead channel"
2203 just as it is

Both amps set the same, same cab, same mics, same mic positions.

Gibson Les Paul Traditional - Muttpup PAF bridge pickup
JCM 800 2210 & JCM 800 2203
Presence - 5
Bass - 7
Mid - 7
Treb - 7
Preamp vol - 7
Master vol - 5
Marshall 1960B 4x12 - Celestion Vintage 30
Senn MD421 center + Shure SM57 just outside dustcap
Both mics on axis about 2" off grill 50/50 blend
No FX or EQ in DAW

2210.mp3

2203.mp3

Sorry man i am in holiday mode and i am / have missed lots.

Only on my phone here but i can really tell that they sound like entirely different animals and not really in a good way. I guess to each their own but for someone like me who honestly doesnt know shit about Marshalls i would lilely have seen "JCM800" and walked out with it expecting something different. I grt lost in all those 2203 2210 stuff.

Great post. Great exercise. If anyone ever reads this or finds it i hope they hear the difference.

[Greg_L]

Sorry man i am in holiday mode and i am / have missed lots.

Only on my phone here but i can really tell that they sound like entirely different animals and not really in a good way. I guess to each their own but for someone like me who honestly doesnt know shit about Marshalls i would lilely have seen "JCM800" and walked out with it expecting something different. I grt lost in all those 2203 2210 stuff.

Great post. Great exercise. If anyone ever reads this or finds it i hope they hear the difference.

I'm really lucky that I'm surrounded by people that have all kinds of different amps. Obviously I'm mostly only interested in Marshalls, but even within that one brand there are a ton of variations. I get to try all these different amps, and it really is often pretty disappointing. Lol. At least for me, there are only a handful of amps that matter that I'd want to use. If I can't just plug into an amp and have it sound good without a bunch of crazy tweaking then I don't wanna fuck with it.

I know that with a 2203/2204 I can put the dials anywhere and it sounds cool. I know this. I've done it, still do it all the time. Same with a Plexi/Super Lead. Put everything on "7" and it should be righteous rock and roll glory with no fuss. The same can't be said for this 2210.

[Greg_L]

Okay last tones with this thing and it's going back to it's rightful owner.

Max gain!

Same setup as before. Cut some of the woofy muck out of it.
Marshall JCM 800 2210 - lead channel
Presence - 6
Bass - 3.5
Mid - 6
Treb - 7
Gain - 10
Channel and master vol - 5

2210 max gain.mp3

Max gain, plus Boss SD-1 set as clean boost. Max level, no drive, tone @ 10:00

2210 max gain + boost.mp3

And this amp has a normal channel. Most people call it a "clean channel" but it's not fucking clean at all. Normal is a better word for it. It's more like a classic Marshall than the lead side of the amp. No mid control though. Weird.
Bass - 7
Treble - 7
Volume - 5

2210 normal channel.mp3

And the amp has reverb, but I didn't bother with it because it truly sucks. I don't know how Marshall fucked up a tube driven spring reverb, but they did on this amp, or it just doesn't work properly which wouldn't be surprising.

So there it is, the less-mighty split-channel JCM 800 2210. My 2203 and 2204 are over here laughing at this thing.

[rayc]

Yep, the "normal" is way, way better and better than my amp but not good compared to your amp.

[Greg_L]

Yep, the "normal" is way, way better and better than my amp but not good compared to your amp.

Ha well it does work okay as a "high gain" amp. I suppose that's the point for the thing. It has more gain than it's single channel brothers. For me, more gain is not a selling point.

[rayc]

Ha well it does work okay as a "high gain" amp. I suppose that's the point for the thing. It has more gain than it's single channel brothers. For me, more gain is not a selling point.

I'm a fan of old fashioned metal and hard rock amongst all the other stuff but I note a distinct absence of high gain amps in the music I like for the most part - seems we've similar taste on that one Greg.

[JD01]

Okay last tones with this thing and it's going back to it's rightful owner.

Max gain!

Same setup as before. Cut some of the woofy muck out of it.
Marshall JCM 800 2210 - lead channel
Presence - 6
Bass - 3.5
Mid - 6
Treb - 7
Gain - 10
Channel and master vol - 5

2210 max gain.mp3

Max gain, plus Boss SD-1 set as clean boost. Max level, no drive, tone @ 10:00
2210 max gain + boost.mp3


And this amp has a normal channel. Most people call it a "clean channel" but it's not fucking clean at all. Normal is a better word for it. It's more like a classic Marshall than the lead side of the amp. No mid control though. Weird.
Bass - 7
Treble - 7
Volume - 5

2210 normal channel.mp3


And the amp has reverb, but I didn't bother with it because it truly sucks. I don't know how Marshall fucked up a tube driven spring reverb, but they did on this amp, or it just doesn't work properly which wouldn't be surprising.

So there it is, the less-mighty split-channel JCM 800 2210. My 2203 and 2204 are over here laughing at this thing.

It sounds better in the max-gain mode... but if you want that sort of thing there's better way's of getting it.
The normal is also fine, but just not as nice as your normal JCM.

I played through Marshall 1974x on Saturday afternoon. That was nice. I played it pretty clean as I was in a shop and didn't want to deafen everyone but it seemed like it would have had plenty of volume if necessary. There was Boss pedal board plugged into it and maxing the level on the overdrives with the gain down didn't really cause much breakup - just raised the volume a lot!

[Greg_L]

It sounds better in the max-gain mode... but if you want that sort of thing there's better way's of getting it.
The normal is also fine, but just not as nice as your normal JCM.

I played through Marshall 1974x on Saturday afternoon. That was nice. I played it pretty clean as I was in a shop and didn't want to deafen everyone but it seemed like it would have had plenty of volume if necessary. There was Boss pedal board plugged into it and maxing the level on the overdrives with the gain down didn't really cause much breakup - just raised the volume a lot!

Lol. Yeah I love those amps. They have a lot of headroom so when you keep the volume low and boost the signal they do just get louder before they get more break up.

[JD01]

It sounds better in the max-gain mode... but if you want that sort of thing there's better way's of getting it.
The normal is also fine, but just not as nice as your normal JCM.

I played through Marshall 1974x on Saturday afternoon. That was nice. I played it pretty clean as I was in a shop and didn't want to deafen everyone but it seemed like it would have had plenty of volume if necessary. There was Boss pedal board plugged into it and maxing the level on the overdrives with the gain down didn't really cause much breakup - just raised the volume a lot!

Lol. Yeah I love those amps. They have a lot of headroom so when you keep the volume low and boost the signal they do just get louder before they get more break up.

Yeah, I was quite surprised. I was in Stratford to go and see a play, but I wanted to see what the local guitar shop had and I've been after a hollow body for a while. So I tried this nice hollow body - A Washburn 345 copy.

The set up was a 10 pedal Boss board into one of these amps. The Blues Driver was sounding nice, so I cranked the level on it, expecting it to do what I normally expect it to do... gave me and other people in the shop a surprise.

Lovely amp anyway.

[Greg_L]

Yeah, I was quite surprised. I was in Stratford to go and see a play, but I wanted to see what the local guitar shop had and I've been after a hollow body for a while. So I tried this nice hollow body - A Washburn 345 copy.

The set up was a 10 pedal Boss board into one of these amps. The Blues Driver was sounding nice, so I cranked the level on it, expecting it to do what I normally expect it to do... gave me and other people in the shop a surprise.

Lovely amp anyway.

I think you'll find that happens on any "old school" amp that doesn't get all of it's grit from the preamp section. My Fender kit build does it...to a point. Up to about 7 on the volume it will get a little louder with a clean boost in front. After that it just compresses and overdrives more like you'd expect. Those kinds of amps are what the pedal guys love as a "pedal platform".

[JD01]

I think you'll find that happens on any "old school" amp that doesn't get all of it's grit from the preamp section. My Fender kit build does it...to a point. Up to about 7 on the volume it will get a little louder with a clean boost in front. After that it just compresses and overdrives more like you'd expect. Those kinds of amps are what the pedal guys love as a "pedal platform".

I would like a Fender clean amp, maybe something like a head version of a Blues Jr.
The clean on my H&K is pretty good though really.

Have you managed to try a H&K yet?

[Greg_L]

Have you managed to try a H&K yet?

Yeah absolutely. Maybe all of them! The Tubemeisters were high on my list a while back when I was looking to start my own amp collection. I think I liked the 18 the best? Can't remember. It's been a long while. Obviously...I got over the smaller H&Ks and went totally off the deep end.

[JD01]

Yeah absolutely. Maybe all of them! The Tubemeisters were high on my list a while back when I was looking to start my own amp collection. I think I liked the 18 the best? Can't remember. It's been a long while. Obviously...I got over the smaller H&Ks and went totally off the deep end.

The 18 is good, cheap too! They don't do the 18 and 36 anymore. I think they're now the 20 and the 40. They also upgraded the "RedBox" attenuation/emulated out thing quite a lot on the more recent ones.

I think H&Ks are the best amp for someone like me that doesn't want or have space for many amps but wants to cover a lot of bases.
If you've got the space for a Fender and a Marshall with nice big cabs there's just no reason for one.

[Greg_L]

The 18 is good, cheap too! They don't do the 18 and 36 anymore. I think they're now the 20 and the 40. They also upgraded the "RedBox" attenuation/emulated out thing quite a lot on the more recent ones.

I think H&Ks are the best amp for someone like me that doesn't want or have space for many amps but wants to cover a lot of bases.
If you've got the space for a Fender and a Marshall with nice big cabs there's just no reason for one.

I agree. They're really good all-around amps. I'm surprised they're not more popular than they are with home recordist types..

I had two issues...well, three.
1) The 18 compressed way too much when turned up and I was concerned they wouldn't be loud enough for live. So I could get the 36, no problem. But at that point, might as well get a 50w Marshall.
2) They sound good, but don't have much individual character. They're a good but generic sound.
3) They don't sound like Marshalls

[JD01]

I had two issues...well, three.
1) The 18 compressed way too much when turned up and I was concerned they wouldn't be loud enough for live. So I could get the 36, no problem. But at that point, might as well get a 50w Marshall.
2) They sound good, but don't have much individual character. They're a good but generic sound.
3) They don't sound like Marshalls

I have the 40W which doesn't compress much when wide open... but I normally scale it down to 5W or 1W for recording 'cos I want it to compress!
Yeah, they are a fairly "generic" sound... most importantly they're not a bad sound. I think they're just trying for mass appeal really trying to put themselves in a position where they'll appeal to MESA metal guys or classic rock Marshall guys... achieving neither but the results are still tidy enough and sound fairly polished in a mix.

I know you like this too - you stick every knob on 5 and the amp just sounds good... then you can just make small adjustments from there.
One of the things I struggled with the Blackstar was that I was using quite extreme EQ settings to get close to where I wanted to be.