The Tone Thread

[JD01]

Latest Rhythm Tone mid push.mp3
Latest Rhythm Tone mid push in mix.mp3
Latest Rhythm Tone.mp3
Latest Rhythm Tone in Mix.mp3

These are pretty good Jdude, but to me they still have the funky low-end thing I mentioned...It sounds kinda like when a Greenback speaker is pushed too hard, but remember all this is subjective...You may like something that I don't, so in the end, it's all up to what you like...

I gotta say it again though, with the new amp/cab, your tones have improved leaps & bounds...

Its not me, mate. Its the amp! It doesn't seem to do bad... At the moment I have it very close to perfect. Little more tweaking.

[WhiskeyJack]

Does that thing come default pinned to task bar or are we just lame enough to have it pinned there 24-7

Nah, I just use it heaps at work so have it pinned to the taskbar on my work laptop.

[rayc]

ta.PNG

[JD01]

Handy tool, init?

[JD01]

Just find the balance where the mid control overlaps with the low and treble on your amp. Your mid control might bleed into the highs when you turn it up. So as mids go up, treble can come down. That's not uncommon. Or as gain goes up, mids can go up and lows can almost be rolled off to nothing.

There's a lot of stuff in here that I just didn't know - I'll be doing some more work on this next weekend. This amp does seem like the opposite of the Blackstar in that respect where there was a lot of overlap between the mids and bass, but you couldn't really get any control over the nice high mids.

[Greg_L]

There's a lot of stuff in here that I just didn't know - I'll be doing some more work on this next weekend. This amp does seem like the opposite of the Blackstar in that respect where there was a lot of overlap between the mids and bass, but you couldn't really get any control over the nice high mids.

None of that shit exists in isolation. Mids aren't just mids, bass isn't just bass, etc. A passive EQ tone stack on guitar amps has a lot of overlap. Everything affects everything.

[SweetDan]

See also: http://www.guitarscience.net/tsc/info.htm
Click on the various amp configurations, tweak the sliders, see the response curves move; it's kind of fun.

[Tadpui]

See also: http://www.guitarscience.net/tsc/info.htm
Click on the various amp configurations, tweak the sliders, see the response curves move; it's kind of fun.

That's really cool!

[Greg_L]

Yeah the TSC really shows how the tone controls interact with surrounding frequencies.

[JD01]

Ah... I wasn't really sure how it worked. Is this something I need to install?

[Minerman]

I asked Greg to record some di's with effects to see how bad the vst emulations I've been using are...I gotta say, there's a world of difference, so it looks like 'Ol Miner is gonna have to buy a couple pedals to scratch his fx itch...

Greg_L's LP > phase/flanger > Mini Jubilee > V30 > '57/i5 > vst reverb

The tracks are pretty self-explanatory:
CLEAN = clean channel
CLIP = rhythm clip engaged
LEAD = lead channel
MICS = using SM57 & i5 mics in the ISO cab, both mics equal volume

***if the clip doesn't have "MICS", they were recorded using the di output of a Bugera PS1 attenuator straight into a Tascam 16x08 interface & using Amplitube 4's cabinet simulations***

Mini Jubilee 20w mode

• Presence: 4.5
  Bass: 7
  Middle: 4
  Treble: 2.5
  Output Master: 7
  Lead Master: 5
  Input Gain: 5

BTW, this is a "playlist" on my SC page & they play from beginning to end how I uploaded 'em...If you wanna click around to A/B, you'll probably have to go to my actual SC page which is here: Flanger/Phase 90 Re-Amps



I know I could've tweaked the amp to sound better for each mode (clean, rhythm clip & lead), but I just set it & left it...The only thing different on the amp is the rhythm clip & channel change...The eq/gain/volume is exactly the same for 'em all...

I picked the speakers & mics in AT4 that I thought sounded the closest to what the mics captured in the ISO cab...

And, I assumed Greg was using one of his Lester's, if not, I can edit/change the description...

[Greg_L]

Yeah that's my Goldtop with Mutt's PAFbuckers.

The tracks sound good. I don't know how they compare to your VST fx....you didn't post any!

The Phaser is a Phase 90 with the speed turned all the way down....like around 7:00. Anything past 9:00 is too fast and warbly.
The Flanger is a Boss BF3. I don't like this Flanger, but it's okay. It sounds okay but it's hard to dial in.

[Minerman]

Yeah that's my Goldtop with Mutt's PAFbuckers.

Ok man, I just assumed it was a LP, I know they're your favorite guitar...

The tracks sound good. I don't know how they compare to your VST fx....you didn't post any!

Dude, there's really no point, the pedals wipe the floor with 'em IMO...I dunno why but when I use those fx they not only sound bad, but they get lost in the mix...Maybe it's something I'm doing wrong, but I'm just tired of fighting with 'em...Actual pedals are where it's at IMO...

I'll probably just buy a couple pedals & be done with it, but a couple of the multi-fx pedals look/sound pretty good too, but the X3Live I had was a major tone sucker using it 4CM...I'm sure the newer multi-fx's are an improvement, but that's one thing that concerns me...Most likely I'll go with individual pedals though as I've already got my feet wet with a few od/dirt pedals...

The Phaser is a Phase 90 with the speed turned all the way down....like around 7:00. Anything past 9:00 is too fast and warbly.
The Flanger is a Boss BF3. I don't like this Flanger, but it's okay. It sounds okay but it's hard to dial in.

Have you ever used a Phase 95??? I see a mini version & it has the regular Phase 90 mode, but also a Phase 45 mode, which is supposed to be a bit more subtle...I read somewhere that Gary Rossington used on a bunch of Skynyrd tunes...



Back to these tones, what do you think of the attenuator di/cab sim tones???

[Greg_L]

Back to these tones, what do you think of the attenuator di/cab sim tones???

They sound okay, but I think you'd do better with speaker impulses. You still got all those Greenback impulses I gave you a while back?


I think I paid like $30 for my Phase 90 and $40 for the Flanger. The basics can be found for cheap.

[Minerman]

They sound okay, but I think you'd do better with speaker impulses. You still got all those Greenback impulses I gave you a while back?

Yeah dude, I've got all kinds of impulses...I've even got the original Recabinet impulses that came out in 2009 somewhere...

I've noticed using impulses/IR's/cab sims that most are pretty tame in the top end, they're not super bright like an actual mic in the center of a real speaker...The clips I just posted with AT4, that's as bright as they'll get using the mic position, which is ok I suppose, but I'm guessing it's just part of the limitation of the technology we have at the moment...

Trying to blend real mics with IR's/cab sims, I can never get it to sound natural...It always sounds phase-y even sliding the tracks around in the daw...

I'll try some different cab sims & post 'em tomorrow...

I think I paid like $30 for my Phase 90 and $40 for the Flanger. The basics can be found for cheap.

Yeah, a phase, flanger & a better univibe are really the only effects I'm interested in at the moment...I have a Danelectro vibe, & it's ok, but I want a better one...

The vst effects I've been using are weird, the reverbs & delays sound great, the modulation fx always sound funky with my amps though...But, using the same modulation fx with ampsims, they sound about like what I'd expect...Go figure...

[Greg_L]

Yeah dude, I've got all kinds of impulses...I've even got the original Recabinet impulses that came out in 2009 somewhere...

I've noticed using impulses/IR's/cab sims that most are pretty tame in the top end, they're not super bright like an actual mic in the center of a real speaker...The clips I just posted with AT4, that's as bright as they'll get using the mic position, which is ok I suppose, but I'm guessing it's just part of the limitation of the technology we have at the moment...

Trying to blend real mics with IR's/cab sims, I can never get it to sound natural...It always sounds phase-y even sliding the tracks around in the daw...

I'll try some different cab sims & post 'em tomorrow...

I'v been toying with the idea of making some impulses off my cabs but just haven't gotten around to it. Not that my shit is anything special, I just want to see if I can do it.

I've never been able to blend real tracks or cab impulses with sims and get good results. I don't know what it is....maybe it's me....maybe it just doesn't work.

Yeah, a phase, flanger & a better univibe are really the only effects I'm interested in at the moment...I have a Danelectro vibe, & it's ok, but I want a better one...

The vst effects I've been using are weird, the reverbs & delays sound great, the modulation fx always sound funky with my amps though...But, using the same modulation fx with ampsims, they sound about like what I'd expect...Go figure...

I've always maintained that the guitar/pickups don't matter when using sims/VSTs. Just feed it a signal and off you go. The difference between a single coil and humbucker still exist in sim world, but the specs of the pickups or guitar do not. A $100 Chibson is the same as a $250,000 real 59 LP when using sims. It makes no difference. You have your preferences for how the instrument feels, but the sim doesn't care at all.

Maybe the effects are the same way. The digital nature of software effects work great in that realm, but bring them out into the meat world and hit actual tubes with that stuff and it all goes bonkers.

[Bill L]

I've always maintained that the guitar/pickups don't matter when using sims/VSTs. Just feed it a signal and off you go. The difference between a single coil and humbucker still exist in sim world, but the specs of the pickups or guitar do not. A $100 Chibson is the same as a $250,000 real 59 LP when using sims. It makes no difference. You have your preferences for how the instrument feels, but the sim doesn't care at all.

Maybe the effects are the same way. The digital nature of software effects work great in that realm, but bring them out into the meat world and hit actual tubes with that stuff and it all goes bonkers.

I completely agree with you, though I'm sure with less actual real world experience on my end. Back when I started playing again (back around 2007, after a 12 year break) I bought a Line 6 Spider 75 watt amp. No matter what guitar I used it all sounded the same and any notes played on the G string or higher (especially above the 5th fret) would disappear in a band/jam situation . There was a difference between humbucker and single coils but barley, if at all, a difference between different guitars with the same type of pick up. It took me a while to convince myself that sims and modeling wasn't the answer (at least for what I do) but I got there. In no small part to the tone thread from the other site. I have started to use some of the effects sims from my Digitech RP 1000, but only effects I'd use through an effects loop and never things like drive, distortion, fuzz, etc. Just delays and reverbs and the occasional modulation effect. And very sparingly (and only because the cover band I'm in requires those types of sounds).

[Lt. Bob]

The Flanger is a Boss BF3. I don't like this Flanger, but it's okay. It sounds okay but it's hard to dial in.

Once you've used a good Ross everything else is kinda 'meh'

[Greg_L]

Once you've used a good Ross everything else is kinda 'meh'

That's absolutely true. The big red Ross was the by far the best flanger I've ever jammed the signal through. If I used a flanger more than once a year I'd buy one.

[Minerman]

I've always maintained that the guitar/pickups don't matter when using sims/VSTs. Just feed it a signal and off you go. The difference between a single coil and humbucker still exist in sim world, but the specs of the pickups or guitar do not. A $100 Chibson is the same as a $250,000 real 59 LP when using sims. It makes no difference. You have your preferences for how the instrument feels, but the sim doesn't care at all.

Maybe the effects are the same way. The digital nature of software effects work great in that realm, but bring them out into the meat world and hit actual tubes with that stuff and it all goes bonkers.

I agree man, I can hear the differences between my guitars pretty good through my amps, but with sims/software, not so much...

Maybe the effects are the same way, I dunno...I've tried recording a di with a vst sending it into the amp, which in theory, should be like using a stompbox, & some of the od/dirt vst's do pretty good, but the modulation fx just sound weird...
The Boss SD-1 sim in AT4 sounds almost identical to my actual pedal ran into my amp, so go figure...

The Flanger is a Boss BF3. I don't like this Flanger, but it's okay. It sounds okay but it's hard to dial in.

Once you've used a good Ross everything else is kinda 'meh'

I'd love to try one of those old red Ross flangers, but that probably ain't gonna happen anytime soon...