rammer24 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:21 pm
Is it "normal" to have the gain lower and the power amp higher?
I have no idea. I just moved stuff around till i liked what i heard. On a sim probably makes little to no difference at all.
I guess in real world applications i do do this with the Orange AD30 now and consider it normal. I have the power section dimed and the gain much lower.
WhiskeyJack wrote: ↑Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:24 pm
I have no idea. I just moved stuff around till i liked what i heard. On a sim probably makes little to no difference at all.
I guess in real world applications i do do this with the Orange AD30 now and consider it normal. I have the power section dimed and the gain much lower.
Ok cool. I know that I've read people talking about overloading the pre-amp section or the power amp section. I should have paid more attention because I think doing one is "better" than doing the other. I just twiddle shit until it sounds good, too.
It depends on the amp. Sometimes having the master vol way up and the gain lower is very good. The only potential problem with that is the amp will be very loud, but those amps sound good like that. The old master volume Marshalls work this way very well...which is partly what that Hybrit thing is emulating. Some amps get most of their goods from the preamp section, so the master volume setting isn't that important. It just depends.
Greg_L wrote: ↑Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:57 pm
It depends on the amp. Sometimes having the master vol way up and the gain lower is very good. The only potential problem with that is the amp will be very loud, but those amps sound good like that. The old master volume Marshalls work this way very well...which is partly what that Hybrit thing is emulating. Some amps get most of their goods from the preamp section, so the master volume setting isn't that important. It just depends.
OK, that's good to know. I kind of like "It depends" in cases like this because it makes me figure it out.
On a side note, sort of related, I don't know what made me think of this. But I remember in the 80's, there was a guy named Richard Onslow here in Montreal, and he was supposedly the first guy to start modifying Marshalls somehow, so that guitar players could get some sustain and distortion without peeling paint off the walls. I think he put a master volume swutch in them or something. Supposedly everyone, including really "Big names" from all over the world got him to modify their amp. I think he was the first guy to do it, but I might be wrong.
OK, that's good to know. I kind of like "It depends" in cases like this because it makes me figure it out.
On a side note, sort of related, I don't know what made me think of this. But I remember in the 80's, there was a guy named Richard Onslow here in Montreal, and he was supposedly the first guy to start modifying Marshalls somehow, so that guitar players could get some sustain and distortion without peeling paint off the walls. I think he put a master volume swutch in them or something. Supposedly everyone, including really "Big names" from all over the world got him to modify their amp. I think he was the first guy to do it, but I might be wrong.
On the old Marshalls, they had no volume control. They were just on. The volume controls were actually more like gain knobs because the amps were loud as fuck no matter where the volumes were set. So you either had very very loud clean, or very very loud face melting dirty. Adding master volumes after the phase inverter was one of the first things people figured out how to do on those amps. They could then be turned down, and it also boosted the gain a little. In the mid 70s, Marshall finally got around to adding master volumes to their amps and the 2203/2204 was born...which became the JCM 800, which is one of the amps the Hybrit is emulating.
Greg_L wrote: ↑Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:57 pm
It depends on the amp. Sometimes having the master vol way up and the gain lower is very good. The only potential problem with that is the amp will be very loud, but those amps sound good like that. The old master volume Marshalls work this way very well...which is partly what that Hybrit thing is emulating. Some amps get most of their goods from the preamp section, so the master volume setting isn't that important. It just depends.
My amp totally shits itself if you max out the master. Remember a while ago I posted a few clips with the master 10 penced (Haha, see what I did there) it was just a mushy mess. I tend to have the master on half for recording?
rammer24 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:21 pm
Is it "normal" to have the gain lower and the power amp higher?
I think the power amp knob affects the tone on that particular sim, if you notice right beside the power amp knob there's an output knob too...
There are a few ampsims that work like that, I think it adds a little more hair/dirt when you turn the power amp up...I might be doing it wrong, but I've always tried to keep each plugin from clipping, even if there are 15 plugins on a single track, I try to make sure none of 'em clip...
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rammer24 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:21 pm
Is it "normal" to have the gain lower and the power amp higher?
I think the power amp knob affects the tone on that particular sim, if you notice right beside the power amp knob there's an output knob too...
From everything i have seen with modern sims, i think they need to just rename that output knob to "master" it is sort of weird. I get that they are trying to give you the most real life sim experience possible most times the sims "master does do something other than just bring the volume up, but that output knob should be called something different. Maybe it's just me but i think it is misleading.
And the input knob i am just purely unsure of why it is a thing? like i have a DI'd track of raw guitar twang and i am adding a sim effect on it. Why would i want to adjust how much of the raw track i am adding to the effect? I can't figure out what useful purpose that serves?
output knob makes more sense than an input knob. I'd be interested to hear what others think or have to say about it. I know we can't change it but we can sure as hell minge about it.
^^^I agree. It's confusing sometimes, probably because "Master" doesn't always mean the same thing on different sims (maybe amps, too?).
At a time when I was trying out sims, I think I remember that on some of them, the Master volume actually did change the sound and give you more distortion. On others, even though it was also called "Master", all it did was turn up the volume but not do anything to the sound.
rammer24 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:36 pm
^^^I agree. It's confusing sometimes, probably because "Master" doesn't always mean the same thing on different sims (maybe amps, too?).
At a time when I was trying out sims, I think I remember that on some of them, the Master volume actually did change the sound and give you more distortion. On others, even though it was also called "Master", all it did was turn up the volume but not do anything to the sound.
Thats fair enough. And i think that is probably more true to form of the real amp that the sim was modelling if that is how it had to respond.
Back in the day i used ot have an old 50W Yamaha amp and the master did nothing but turn up the volume of all the other settings. It was a soild state amp though. No tubes or anything. perhaps that's the difference? Maybe Professor Greg, or Dr. Minernuggs can shed more light on that?
What they've done, as usual, is give you options you don't need.
I don't know why they'd separate the power amp and master volume. They're basically one-and-the-same on a real amp. I think maybe they mean it as some sort of power soak? But if so, then why? Neighbor bothering volume is not a problem in the sim world. Lol.
And the input level? Totally useless. I don't understand the purpose of that control on the Hybrit.
I would say, IMO, if you want that sim to be like a JCM 800, max the input, max the power amp, and use the Drive (preamp gain) and Master Vol for what they're supposed to be.
Its still only 630Am here so I've been messing with a few speaker impulses.
I only seem to have 1960A G12m impuleses, but I don't suppose that matters for the sake of the experiement.
This is my normal high gain tone, amp set up in exactly the same way and I've stuck the FX return straight into my AI. The monitoring situation is pretty unpleasant, but it sounds alright and is more than usable as a writing tool at antisocial hours.
Those definitely sound better to me than your usual mic'd cab efforts. I've said it a million times - that tiny cab is not doing you any favors. I know you can't do anything about it because it's a combo, so it is what it is. I think the cab impulse is a better option if you're stuck with that amp.
That mix though....Lol. Not good. The guitars sound pretty good, but the mix is a mess.
Greg_L wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:54 am
Those definitely sound better to me than your usual mic'd cab efforts. I've said it a million times - that tiny cab is not doing you any favors. I know you can't do anything about it because it's a combo, so it is what it is. I think the cab impulse is a better option if you're stuck with that amp.
That mix though....Lol. Not good. The guitars sound pretty good, but the mix is a mess.
I think they lack a bit of life compared with the miked up versions and that's with a good a bit of air added with ReaEQ, they do sound alright though, but no feedback, but then they don't have the inherant drawbacks of my combo either.
Yeah - the mix wasn't supposed to be a done mix, just to demo the tones. I turned the vocal right down and its the old one from the previous version of this track just dumped it for reference and I hadn't bothered balancing out the bass and drums, just wanted to make sure I could hear the guitars.
JD01 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:06 am
I think they lack a bit of life compared with the miked up versions and that's with a good a bit of air added with ReaEQ,
Which impulse did you use? I don't find they lack "air" at all just as they are.
JD01 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:06 am
I think they lack a bit of life compared with the miked up versions and that's with a good a bit of air added with ReaEQ,
Which impulse did you use? I don't find they lack "air" at all just as they are.
1960A G12M 57 Cap Edge 0.5" My amp is already decidedly lacking in "air" even without the impulse!
It does sound good though, just doesn't feel quite the same.
JD01 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:22 am
1960A G12M 57 Cap Edge 0.5" My amp is already decidedly lacking in "air" even without the impulse!
It does sound good though, just doesn't feel quite the same.
Damn that's already a pretty bright impulse.
For some reason I only have the G12s now - I'm sure when you originally gave these to me, probably about 2 years ago, I had all of the different types of cab and speaker.
When I first got these I just didn't know how to use them - I don't think I knew what wet/dry meant and stuff like that so now I have these set up with dry muted and wet on 100%. I didn't know what all that meant before so I just left them as default.
