The Tone Thread

[JD01]

Ray, I haven't had a chance to listen to this on my ref cans yet, but I just wanted to say that I also really like your recent more aggressive tunes.

[rayc]

Thanks Miner, Greg and James.
The modded Marshall seems to have brought some animal to the fore.
I bought a cheap, ($AUS80), tele about a decade ago to get an idea about that sound etc. I didn't play it much because it arrived unable to select the bridge PU, (could do the other four trad Tele selections), and was very uncomfortable to play.
As I decided to tool about for a few weeks until Greg can do some tracks I pulled the teleclone out to try for single coil solid body through the Marshall. I sussed out that bad fret fitting was the main reason the thing was awful to play. With a variety of grit level paper and files I seem to have untidily addressed the dress problem so that the guitar actually feels nice to play.
Now, getting a good and aggressive Tele tone from a Superlead isn't easy. The experiments I did today have chime and sound nice but I'll have to try again, (& again etc), to get a bit of breakup and aggression that sounds good.
Any clues on this are welcome - I figure a boost for the single coils may be necessary.

[Greg_L]

Now, getting a good and aggressive Tele tone from a Superlead isn't easy. The experiments I did today have chime and sound nice but I'll have to try again, (& again etc), to get a bit of breakup and aggression that sounds good.
Any clues on this are welcome - I figure a boost for the single coils may be necessary.

My friend, you are gonna have to crank it.

[rayc]

Interesting for double tracking guitar...at the 6min mark...use an OD pedal at unity, no drive, to high pass the 2nd guitar...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJzzxfciIvw
[BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJzzxfciIvw[/BBvideo]

[JD01]

I used the same setting for the drums as I used on the last project that used the same drum source.
I think it's tighter & tidier.
The ReaEQ bass preset seems to have helped somewhat too - thanks Greg.
The guitars are as they were.
I'll experiment with single coils as well as amp settings in an attempt to get my own approximation to Power Pop jangle - or not.
Don't ComeToMe211218full.mp3

Big Project Bill, big room to house it too - good luck with the stubborn folk.

Managed to listen to this now Ray, I like it! It sounds a bit like an album Neil Young did in the 90s with Pearl Jam called Mirrorball.

I just think that in this mix the kick is a bit quiet and the bass is a bit loud and also jumps out occasionally - bit more compression maybe?

[rayc]

I just think that in this mix the kick is a bit quiet and the bass is a bit loud and also jumps out occasionally - bit more compression maybe?

Thanks James,
My Missus loves that album - she's a huge NY fan but, amazingly, loves that one in particular.
I've applied the suggestions re bass & kick. Though the chorus bass may need to be pulled back a bit more.
I've also re recorded the guitar tracks - Tele clone into input II of my Marshall channel pre at about 8 and master at about 2.
I managed to get some dirty sounds from the clone but it's a bit fizzy. I was using the position between bridge & middle position - out of phase spot?
May be that may just be Teles & Marshalls.
Regardless it was fun because I'm learning as I go and can pay the song through without incident now, (2 mins is probably my limit).

Don't ComeToMe261218.mp3

[Greg_L]

Thanks James,
My Missus loves that album - she's a huge NY fan but, amazingly, loves that one in particular.
I've applied the suggestions re bass & kick. Though the chorus bass may need to be pulled back a bit more.
I've also re recorded the guitar tracks - Tele clone into input II of my Marshall channel pre at about 8 and master at about 2.
I managed to get some dirty sounds from the clone but it's a bit fizzy. I was using the position between bridge & middle position - out of phase spot?
May be that may just be Teles & Marshalls.
Regardless it was fun because I'm learning as I go and can pay the song through without incident now, (2 mins is probably my limit).
Don't ComeToMe261218.mp3

Thems some pretty dirty tones. I thought you wanted power pop pushed jangle?

[rayc]

Thems some pretty dirty tones. I thought you wanted power pop pushed jangle?

I do Greg,
I'm just experimenting in the meantime trying to get tones from different guitars.
The II input is dirtier but darker.
The song's a good, short vehicle to try tones against.
I did another today - this has Tele clone on one side and my MIJ Bruno semi on the other.
Bruno is Input one.
I'll slowly work down to cleaner tones as I go. I certainly can't get a strat tone with the guitars I have.

Don't ComeToMe271218.mp3

[Greg_L]

I do Greg,
I'm just experimenting in the meantime trying to get tones from different guitars.
The II input is dirtier but darker.
The song's a good, short vehicle to try tones against.
I did another today - this has Tele clone on one side and my MIJ Bruno semi on the other.
Bruno is Input one.
I'll slowly work down to cleaner tones as I go. I certainly can't get a strat tone with the guitars I have.
Don't ComeToMe271218.mp3

That one's got better separation in the guitars. Try the "1" input for the cleaner jangle tones.

[Minerman]

I've applied the suggestions re bass & kick. Though the chorus bass may need to be pulled back a bit more.
I've also re recorded the guitar tracks - Tele clone into input II of my Marshall channel pre at about 8 and master at about 2.
I managed to get some dirty sounds from the clone but it's a bit fizzy. I was using the position between bridge & middle position - out of phase spot?
May be that may just be Teles & Marshalls.
Regardless it was fun because I'm learning as I go and can pay the song through without incident now, (2 mins is probably my limit).

Sorry I didn't get around to this earlier Ray....I think this is pretty good myself, & I'd hold off on pulling the bass back until you have vocals in there, context, remember??? Even if it's just a guide/placeholder vocal, it may take something away from the track pulling the bass back...
Just my

I'm just experimenting in the meantime trying to get tones from different guitars.
The II input is dirtier but darker.
The song's a good, short vehicle to try tones against.
I did another today - this has Tele clone on one side and my MIJ Bruno semi on the other.
Bruno is Input one.
I'll slowly work down to cleaner tones as I go. I certainly can't get a strat tone with the guitars I have.

This is good too, the whole mix seems to have less high end overall compared to the previous clip...That may be where your "jangle" has gone...Just sayin'...

I think you can get strat-ish tones from your tele dude, it's just a matter of dialing the amp in for the guitar you're using...You're making progress Ray, so stick to your guns dude, you'll eventually figure out how each guitar acts through your beast amp dude...Options are great, but I know too well having lots of them means it takes more time to learn what each thing in your signal chain will do...


Something I've been doing with my strat/single coils is to turn the master volume as loud as I can get it, then adjusting the gain to suit what I'm after in small increments, trying to get the "clean dirty"/edge of breakup thing...You might give that a shot...

I'm sure you know this, but the bridge p'up alone will be way brighter/jangly than any other position on your tele dude...The out of phase/quack thing is & can be cool, but if you're looking for bright, the bridge p'up is where it's at...

Just remember, stick to your guns man, you're getting there...

[rayc]

Thanks MM,
I can't use the bridge PU at present - the selector is busted.
I'll def try the MV vs gain option when I next have a crack at this.
I've just remembered I have a all the parts for a cheapo MIJ knock off strat in the garage - I did an "artsy" paint job for a friend but he didn't come to collect it or put it together gain - that was 97. I think I may have to assemble & test it.

[rayc]

More tone experiments.
Telecaster Clone input I less preamp and a little more MV.
I ran the Tele into a cheap Comp pedal that adds a little high end with a little chime.
I also added two Fender acoustic 12 string tracks underneath it all to see if that helped.
Arranging the electric guitar tracks to fit but not clone was interesting - choppy rhythm on one side and straighter strum on the other.
Arp guitar in choruses.
Is this getting closer?

Don't ComeToMe291218.mp3

[JD01]

OK, here's my attempt at quad tracking guitars.

Tele is always on the left.
Custom is always on the right.
i5s are hard panned.
57s are 75% with 2bd more verb and a little less volume.

Quad Track Test.mp3

[Greg_L]

More tone experiments.
Telecaster Clone input I less preamp and a little more MV.
I ran the Tele into a cheap Comp pedal that adds a little high end with a little chime.
I also added two Fender acoustic 12 string tracks underneath it all to see if that helped.
Arranging the electric guitar tracks to fit but not clone was interesting - choppy rhythm on one side and straighter strum on the other.
Arp guitar in choruses.
Is this getting closer?
Don't ComeToMe291218.mp3

You got a nice jangle going now. Maybe a little too clean at this stage, but it's good. I like it.

OK, here's my attempt at quad tracking guitars.

Tele is always on the left.
Custom is always on the right.
i5s are hard panned.
57s are 75% with 2bd more verb and a little less volume.

Quad Track Test.mp3

It sounds a little sea shellish to me. The reverb isn't doing you any favors. It's not bad, but I'm not getting a super huge powerful vibe off of it. I feel like you could do this with less tracks.

[JD01]

Cheers Greg... Sea shellish, now there a new one!

It actually sounds better with the guitars panned on opposite sides. I have both teles on the left there which was an error! Will post up a revised version with less verb later.

You might be right, two guitars and a bit more gain.

[Greg_L]

Cheers Greg... Sea shellish, now there a new one!

It actually sounds better with the guitars panned on opposite sides. I have both teles on the left there which was an error! Will post up a revised version with less verb later.

You might be right, two guitars and a bit more gain.

Quad tracking is a worthy exercise, but I just don't know how useful it actually is for most things. I quad track people a lot of times because they ask for it. But their final product is often just the two best takes panned out wide with maybe some of the extra stuff modestly thrown in.

I think if you really wanna actually use four tracks of guitars, the two extra tracks need to be something that actually adds to the finished product. Octave chords, cleaner punchier tones, harmonies, something noticeable but not distracting. 2+2 of the same shit stacked up just makes a mess.

[JD01]

Yeah. I'd just never done it before. I've quad tracked loads of times with two different guitar parts, like two rhythms and some harmonised octave chords. But I've never quad tracked four bits the same so fancied giving it a go.

There are lead guitars to go on this song too.

[Greg_L]

Yeah. I'd just never done it before. I've quad tracked loads of times with two different guitar parts, like two rhythms and some harmonised octave chords. But I've never quad tracked four bits the same so fancied giving it a go.

There are lead guitars to go on this song too.

I know none of my tones are "heavy" or any of that shit, but I have yet to be convinced that more takes is better than fewer takes recorded with more mics/speakers.

One take + two mics > Two takes + one mic each

[JD01]

One take + two mics > Two takes + one mic each

Yeah, I agree. And you can always dial one of the mics out if you don't like it.

I haven't been recording with 2 mics since I got the H&K, I've always been happiest with just the i5.

[Minerman]

More tone experiments.
Telecaster Clone input I less preamp and a little more MV.
I ran the Tele into a cheap Comp pedal that adds a little high end with a little chime.
I also added two Fender acoustic 12 string tracks underneath it all to see if that helped.
Arranging the electric guitar tracks to fit but not clone was interesting - choppy rhythm on one side and straighter strum on the other.
Arp guitar in choruses.
Is this getting closer?

Sounds good Ray, seems a bit cleaner than the last clip, so if that's what you're shooting for, you're on your way dude...I don't hear anything wrong with this at all, but the bottom line is, are you happy with it???

Again, sounds good dude...

OK, here's my attempt at quad tracking guitars.

Tele is always on the left.
Custom is always on the right.
i5s are hard panned.
57s are 75% with 2bd more verb and a little less volume.

This does sound pretty damn good to me Jdude, great clarity & separation man...Greg has valid points though, if you're gonna have the extra tracks, use them for a chorus/lead break/whatever so when they kick in, they stand out & really make a difference...Nothing at all wrong with this though, I think it sounds good myself...

Layering can be quite cool, but it can also make things messy, especially with gain-y guitars...Using less gain than you normally would is your friend for this...