The Tone Thread

[JD01]

More metal tones. These ones are a fair bit higher gain that the others... they're not actually that much gain in isolation as I didn't want it to get out of control when I started laying the rhythms.

So, 4 Rhythm guitars.
All played through the bridge humbucker on my Crimson.
Two hard panned, two panned 75/75. Different overdrives and mics at each position to round things out a bit as below:

Guit Buss Heavy.JPG

Intro Test Mix.mp3

[Greg_L]

More metal tones. These ones are a fair bit higher gain that the others... they're not actually that much gain in isolation as I didn't want it to get out of control when I started laying the rhythms.

So, 4 Rhythm guitars.
All played through the bridge humbucker on my Crimson.
Two hard panned, two panned 75/75. Different overdrives and mics at each position to round things out a bit as below:
Guit Buss Heavy.JPG


Intro Test Mix.mp3

Sounds kind of muddy and woofy to me. Almost like there's something out of phase. I think the slightly inward panning of the extra guitars is creating too much muck.

[JD01]

More metal tones. These ones are a fair bit higher gain that the others... they're not actually that much gain in isolation as I didn't want it to get out of control when I started laying the rhythms.

So, 4 Rhythm guitars.
All played through the bridge humbucker on my Crimson.
Two hard panned, two panned 75/75. Different overdrives and mics at each position to round things out a bit as below:
Guit Buss Heavy.JPG


Intro Test Mix.mp3

Sounds kind of muddy and woofy to me. Almost like there's something out of phase. I think the slightly inward panning of the extra guitars is creating too much muck.

Cheers, I'll have another listen over the weekend and post up the guitars on their own. I think it might be my bass tone making it woofy. When I listened to this in the car earlier it was pretty woofy.

[WhiskeyJack]

Sounds kind of muddy and woofy to me. Almost like there's something out of phase. I think the slightly inward panning of the extra guitars is creating too much muck.

Cheers, I'll have another listen over the weekend and post up the guitars on their own. I think it might be my bass tone making it woofy. When I listened to this in the car earlier it was pretty woofy.

I do not much mind the muted chuggy bits JD those are pretty ideal to what i'd like to hear for muted chuggy bits. It's not awful by any stretch. Just lacking clarity and detail on the not muted and chuggy bits. I'd like to hear all if it panned 100% as an A/B just out of curiosity.

Speaking only of my own experiences with panning multiple guitars around stereo field i've never had any luck beefing up guitars by spreading them out. They do get beefy and chunky yes, but it also conjests the mix when you starting shoving them closer to the bass. All of them just sort of fight each other in the mix. If that makes any sense?

My personal buffer for that method these days is 100% in to about 90-95%. I tell myself i hear a difference in depth of tone but really, it sounds the same with them all crammed on top of each other at 100% and slightly better / detailed at that.

[rayc]

I hard pan &almost hard pan then throw something up the middle but I'm hopeless at more than three guitars.

[JD01]

OK, here's the Rhythm guitars only.
Listening to them in isolation - I don't think the problem in that mix is with them.

Rhythm Guitars Only.mp3

[Greg_L]

OK, here's the Rhythm guitars only.
Listening to them in isolation - I don't think the problem in that mix is with them.

Rhythm Guitars Only.mp3

There's a ton of low end chug resonance in that. It's not bad in isolation, but to me I can definitely see all that resonance mucking up a mix.

[JD01]

OK, here's the Rhythm guitars only.
Listening to them in isolation - I don't think the problem in that mix is with them.

Rhythm Guitars Only.mp3

There's a ton of low end chug resonance in that. It's not bad in isolation, but to me I can definitely see all that resonance mucking up a mix.

Cheers, I'll see if I can hi pass them a little without losing too much that cant be replaced when the bass is added back in.
I quite like the basic tone. It's not horribly bright and scooped but it's not got too obnoxious a mid sound either.

Edit, just thinking actually. Cos there's 4 guitars there I can probably hi pass two of them quite aggressively.

[WhiskeyJack]

There's a ton of low end chug resonance in that. It's not bad in isolation, but to me I can definitely see all that resonance mucking up a mix.

Cheers, I'll see if I can hi pass them a little without losing too much that cant be replaced when the bass is added back in.
I quite like the basic tone. It's not horribly bright and scooped but it's not got too obnoxious a mid sound either.

Edit, just thinking actually. Cos there's 4 guitars there I can probably hi pass two of them quite aggressively.

That is a cool idea!!! I've never thought of that and in theory it should make a fair bit of difference. Look at the head on this Welshman wouldja.

Also as a rule of thumb i always roll off anything under 80-100hz in my guits right off the hop, then i will go back and season to taste. Mostly with a shelf after i get my bass nestled in with the kick to the best my ears allow and then work the guits in around that.

I try not to think like a guitar player ALL THE TIME when i mix. So i steal the beef right out of the gates and bring it back later when i'm happy wiht the other shit.

[Greg_L]

Man I hardly ever roll off low end in my guitars.

[JD01]

Man I hardly ever roll off low end in my guitars.

The way you have your amps cranked though, your low end is kind of naturally rolled off isn't it.

[Greg_L]

The way you have your amps cranked though, your low end is kind of naturally rolled off isn't it.

Not really, if anything that probably yields more low end due to proximity effect. I've never noticed an amp lose low end or get brighter as you turn it up. It's usually the opposite.

[JD01]

Ah, I was always under the impression that Marshalls just got middy with volume.

[JD01]

OK, so. I've hi-passed 2 of the 4 guitars at 200hz. Much higher than I'd normally hi-pass a guitar... but given that there's 4 of them. It seems OK.

Hi Passed Guit 3and4.mp3

[Greg_L]

Yeah that is a little better.

[JD01]

Yeah that is a little better.

When I listened to those in the mix, the bass really became more audible too.

Not even finished writing this one yet, So plenty of time to work on the bass.

[WhiskeyJack]

OK, so. I've hi-passed 2 of the 4 guitars at 200hz. Much higher than I'd normally hi-pass a guitar... but given that there's 4 of them. It seems OK.

Hi Passed Guit 3and4.mp3

Getting better. Much cleaner JD

[rayc]

Since finding THE settings on my Marshall monster I thought I'd do a re run of my Ibanez Renometer #95.
Here's a riff played through some of the suggested settings from the booklet... settings for a humbucker huitar to achieve sounds/tones similar to etc.
1st just into the amp
2nd into the amp through the Ren with everything at neutral
Next the LP setting
Then the Tele setting
Then a VOX amp/Brit setting
Followed by a SUPERstrat n loud amp setting
Finally, my fave, a cocked wah setting.
The riff was something I was going to work on BUT I think it's a Stranglers progression.

Renometer test2.mp3

[Greg_L]

Since finding THE settings on my Marshall monster I thought I'd do a re run of my Ibanez Renometer #95.
Here's a riff played through some of the suggested settings from the booklet... settings for a humbucker huitar to achieve sounds/tones similar to etc.
1st just into the amp
2nd into the amp through the Ren with everything at neutral
Next the LP setting
Then the Tele setting
Then a VOX amp/Brit setting
Followed by a SUPERstrat n loud amp setting
Finally, my fave, a cocked wah setting.
The riff was something I was going to work on BUT I think it's a Stranglers progression.
Renometer test2.mp3

All those sound pretty usable...maybe not the "tele" setting...but the rest sound okay to me.

[rayc]

All those sound pretty usable...maybe not the "tele" setting...but the rest sound okay to me.

That tele setting is icepick quality.
I tried it with a clean amp and it was even more unpleasant.
I'll have to tweak the Cocked Wah thing a little but it's a fun sound to hammer away on.