The Tone Thread

[Greg_L]

Beta57-1.mp3Here is a rough test of my Beta 57 mic.
Signal chain = LPC> Carvin Legacy> Beta 57> Motu interface.
There is no EQ,Compression,or effects. I just slapped the mic up and hit record.

That sounds pretty good to me. Nice thickness. I'd like a little more top end for myself but that's a good hard rock tone for sure.

[Greg_L]

More Mini 800 clips, this time messing around with the toneprint feature on the new univibe...This patch has a flanger combined with the univibe...More tweaking is probably needed, but I think it may work for some of my weird fx sounds...

Signal Chain: strat bridge HB > univibe > TS9/SD1 > Mini 800 (5w mode) > PS1 attenuator > 65 > SM57

• TC Electronic Univibe:
  "Flanged Vibes" toneprint
  Speed:.............0
  Intensity:..........7
  Volume:...........10
  
  Mini TS9:
  Tone:.............7
  Level:............10
  Gain:..............0
  
  Boss SD-1:
  Level:............10
  Tone:............2.5
  Drive:............3
  
  Mini JCM 800:
  5w mode
  Presence:...........4
  Bass:................6
  Middle:.............3.5
  Treble:..............6
  Volume:.............5
  Gain:...............10
  
  PS1 attenuator:................10 (full volume)

Uni-flange only:
Mini 800 5w UNIFLANGE 10-19-2019.mp3

Uni-flange & Mini TS9:
Mini 800 5w UNIFLANGE_TS9 10-19-2019.mp3

Uni-flange & SD-1:
Mini 800 5w UNIFLANGE_SD1 10-19-2019.mp3


And, here's an un-attenuated, no bost/fx clip of the Mini 800 in 20w mode, with the same amp settings:
Mini 800 _DRY_ 10-19-2019.mp3


Lemme know what you guys think....

BTW, I'm still gonna do the Chupacabra vs. the Mini 800 in the next day or two...

I like that pedal as a flanger better than just how it was as just a univibe. Pretty nice flanger sound. I like flangers that don't do that weird metallic flutter thing when they "turn around".

The un-fx un-attenuated all amp clip is by far the best. That's a good sound.

[Minerman]

Ilike that pedal as a flanger better than just how it was as just a univibe. Pretty nice flanger sound. I like flangers that don't do that weird metallic flutter thing when they "turn around".

The un-fx un-attenuated all amp clip is by far the best. That's a good sound.

Thanks man, I'm pretty happy overall with all the new gear I've bought the last little while...

[liv_rong]

Yeah, I agree with Greg that the last clip by itself sounds good dude! I'm jealous!

I've been dialing in some dirty tones lately and hope this winter to get a string of songs down.

[Minerman]

Yeah, I agree with Greg that the last clip by itself sounds good dude! I'm jealous!

I've been dialing in some dirty tones lately and hope this winter to get a string of songs down.

No need to be jealous dude, you can conjure up some pretty cool tones too Liv...

[ocnor]

Here is an experiment with the routing of my motu interface. I routed from the motu mic input to the SPDIF out and into the SPDIF of the TC G Major 2. Then from the SPDIF output of the TC back into the motu SPDIF. This virtually bypasses the TC converters and uses the motu converters only.
The clip starts out with the dry distorted guitar, then I add the flanger ,and then delay and reverb.

TC Flanger Test.mp3

[Minerman]

Here is an experiment with the routing of my motu interface. I routed from the motu mic input to the SPDIF out and into the SPDIF of the TC G Major 2. Then from the SPDIF output of the TC back into the motu SPDIF. This virtually bypasses the TC converters and uses the motu converters only.
The clip starts out with the dry distorted guitar, then I add the flanger ,and then delay and reverb.
TC Flanger Test.mp3

Sounds pretty good Ocnor, I'm quite impressed with the TC Electronic pedal I have & your clips pretty much shows all their effects sound great...

I don't quite follow your routing, but you basically made an effects loop with your interface, only the loop is in between the mic & amp, correct???

I've done something similar with my interface trying out vst fx, basically running a line-level output with fx into the loop of my amp...It still sounded "off", but I know now it's the vst's because the pedals I bought recently sound like they should...

Sounds good dude...

[ocnor]

I don't quite follow your routing, but you basically made an effects loop with your interface, only the loop is in between the mic & amp, correct???

Almost right. What I did was create an effects loop within the interface using the SPDIF ins and outs. This way when I plug into the mic input of the motu, it converts the signal to digital and sends it directly to the TC. Then the TC sends the digital signal back into the motu. Doing it this way avoids an extra conversion process by the TC of A/D to DA. The converters in the motu are much better than the TC converters resulting in a cleaner sound.

[Minerman]

I don't quite follow your routing, but you basically made an effects loop with your interface, only the loop is in between the mic & amp, correct???

Almost right. What I did was create an effects loop within the interface using the SPDIF ins and outs. This way when I plug into the mic input of the motu, it converts the signal to digital and sends it directly to the TC. Then the TC sends the digital signal back into the motu. Doing it this way avoids an extra conversion process by the TC of A/D to DA. The converters in the motu are much better than the TC converters resulting in a cleaner sound.

Ok, gotcha...I had the overall idea though...My hillbilly brain ain't what it used to be sometimes...

[Minerman]

Ok, here's a little comparison between the Mini 800 & Chupacabra...These are actually clips from a song I'm working on, so the amps could've been set up to sound better on their own, but again, these are supposed to fit into a song...

I probably shouldn't have used the attenuator, but I was trying to get the volume down a little here...I'll do a quick re-amp tomorrow without the attenuator...I've punished my neighbors enough for one day & I don't wanna push it too much...

[mention]ocnor[/mention] And I just remembered your suggestion, I'll do that tomorrow too...Sorry man...

Signal Chain: strat split/hb bridge > Chupa/Mini 800 > PS1 (on "5") > G12-65 > SM57

Chupacabra:

• Resonance:2
  Presence:........8
  Bass:.............6
  Middle:...........3
  Treble:...........8
  Master:..........8
  Gain 2:..........6
  Gain:.............2
  Era:..........C/Plexi mode
  Bright 2:.........C
  Bright 1:.........L

Mini JCM 800:

• 20w mode
  Presence:........4
  Bass:.............6
  Middle:..........3
  Treble:..........6
  Master:..........8
  Gain:...........2.5

strat split bridge > Mini 800:

strat_split_Mini 800_PS1_65_SM57 10-21-2019.mp3

strat split bridge > Chupa:

strat_split_Chupa_PS1_65_SM57 10-21-2019.mp3

strat HB bridge > Mini 800:

strat_HB_Mini 800_PS1_65_SM57 10-21-2019.mp3

strat HB bridge > Chupa:

strat_HB_Chupa_PS1_65_SM57 10-21-2019.mp3

The Mini 800 is a little more gain-y in these clips, there are so many variables with the Chupa's switches/knobs I could get 'em to sound closer, but I just said fuck it & went with these tones...

[ocnor]

Ok, here's a little comparison between the Mini 800 & Chupacabra...These are actually clips from a song I'm working on, so the amps could've been set up to sound better on their own, but again, these are supposed to fit into a song...

I probably shouldn't have used the attenuator, but I was trying to get the volume down a little here...I'll do a quick re-amp tomorrow without the attenuator...I've punished my neighbors enough for one day & I don't wanna push it too much...

@ocnor And I just remembered your suggestion, I'll do that tomorrow too...Sorry man...

Signal Chain: strat split/hb bridge > Chupa/Mini 800 > PS1 (on "5") > G12-65 > SM57

Chupacabra:

• Resonance:2
  Presence:........8
  Bass:.............6
  Middle:...........3
  Treble:...........8
  Master:..........8
  Gain 2:..........6
  Gain:.............2
  Era:..........C/Plexi mode
  Bright 2:.........C
  Bright 1:.........L

Mini JCM 800:

• 20w mode
  Presence:........4
  Bass:.............6
  Middle:..........3
  Treble:..........6
  Master:..........8
  Gain:...........2.5

strat split bridge > Mini 800:
strat_split_Mini 800_PS1_65_SM57 10-21-2019.mp3

strat split bridge > Chupa:
strat_split_Chupa_PS1_65_SM57 10-21-2019.mp3

strat HB bridge > Mini 800:
strat_HB_Mini 800_PS1_65_SM57 10-21-2019.mp3

strat HB bridge > Chupa:
strat_HB_Chupa_PS1_65_SM57 10-21-2019.mp3

The Mini 800 is a little more gain-y in these clips, there are so many variables with the Chupa's switches/knobs I could get 'em to sound closer, but I just said fuck it & went with these tones...

Nice tones. I can hear the Marshall-ness of both amps but I actually prefer the Chupa.

[TripleM]

Ok, here's a little comparison between the Mini 800 & Chupacabra...These are actually clips from a song I'm working on, so the amps could've been set up to sound better on their own, but again, these are supposed to fit into a song...

I probably shouldn't have used the attenuator, but I was trying to get the volume down a little here...I'll do a quick re-amp tomorrow without the attenuator...I've punished my neighbors enough for one day & I don't wanna push it too much...

@ocnor And I just remembered your suggestion, I'll do that tomorrow too...Sorry man...

Signal Chain: strat split/hb bridge > Chupa/Mini 800 > PS1 (on "5") > G12-65 > SM57

Chupacabra:

• Resonance:2
  Presence:........8
  Bass:.............6
  Middle:...........3
  Treble:...........8
  Master:..........8
  Gain 2:..........6
  Gain:.............2
  Era:..........C/Plexi mode
  Bright 2:.........C
  Bright 1:.........L

Mini JCM 800:

• 20w mode
  Presence:........4
  Bass:.............6
  Middle:..........3
  Treble:..........6
  Master:..........8
  Gain:...........2.5

strat split bridge > Mini 800:
strat_split_Mini 800_PS1_65_SM57 10-21-2019.mp3

strat split bridge > Chupa:
strat_split_Chupa_PS1_65_SM57 10-21-2019.mp3

strat HB bridge > Mini 800:
strat_HB_Mini 800_PS1_65_SM57 10-21-2019.mp3

strat HB bridge > Chupa:
strat_HB_Chupa_PS1_65_SM57 10-21-2019.mp3

The Mini 800 is a little more gain-y in these clips, there are so many variables with the Chupa's switches/knobs I could get 'em to sound closer, but I just said fuck it & went with these tones...

All four clips sound nice. They're close, but if I had to pick one amp over the other I'd probably take the Chupa. The low end seemed a bit more controlled and even. But they're real close

[Greg_L]

Here is an experiment with the routing of my motu interface. I routed from the motu mic input to the SPDIF out and into the SPDIF of the TC G Major 2. Then from the SPDIF output of the TC back into the motu SPDIF. This virtually bypasses the TC converters and uses the motu converters only.
The clip starts out with the dry distorted guitar, then I add the flanger ,and then delay and reverb.
TC Flanger Test.mp3

Sounds pretty huge in stereo. I liked it with just the flanger, adding the other stuff just started to muck it up to me.

[Greg_L]

Ok, here's a little comparison between the Mini 800 & Chupacabra...These are actually clips from a song I'm working on, so the amps could've been set up to sound better on their own, but again, these are supposed to fit into a song...

I probably shouldn't have used the attenuator, but I was trying to get the volume down a little here...I'll do a quick re-amp tomorrow without the attenuator...I've punished my neighbors enough for one day & I don't wanna push it too much...

@ocnor And I just remembered your suggestion, I'll do that tomorrow too...Sorry man...

Signal Chain: strat split/hb bridge > Chupa/Mini 800 > PS1 (on "5") > G12-65 > SM57

Chupacabra:

• Resonance:2
  Presence:........8
  Bass:.............6
  Middle:...........3
  Treble:...........8
  Master:..........8
  Gain 2:..........6
  Gain:.............2
  Era:..........C/Plexi mode
  Bright 2:.........C
  Bright 1:.........L

Mini JCM 800:

• 20w mode
  Presence:........4
  Bass:.............6
  Middle:..........3
  Treble:..........6
  Master:..........8
  Gain:...........2.5

strat split bridge > Mini 800:
strat_split_Mini 800_PS1_65_SM57 10-21-2019.mp3

strat split bridge > Chupa:
strat_split_Chupa_PS1_65_SM57 10-21-2019.mp3

strat HB bridge > Mini 800:
strat_HB_Mini 800_PS1_65_SM57 10-21-2019.mp3

strat HB bridge > Chupa:
strat_HB_Chupa_PS1_65_SM57 10-21-2019.mp3

The Mini 800 is a little more gain-y in these clips, there are so many variables with the Chupa's switches/knobs I could get 'em to sound closer, but I just said fuck it & went with these tones...

I think the Chupa sounds better in these clips. The low mids are little tighter, which works for these kinds of tones to me.

[Minerman]

All four clips sound nice. They're close, but if I had to pick one amp over the other I'd probably take the Chupa. The low end seemed a bit more controlled and even. But they're real close

Thanks man, I probably could've got 'em to sound even closer with some more tweaking, but it ain't no biggie...Thanks again dude...

I think the Chupa sounds better in these clips. The low mids are little tighter, which works for these kinds of tones to me.

Thanks man, to me, the Chupa is smoother in these clips & I think the bottom end is better, making it sound a little thicker...The Mini 800 sounds more aggressive, but only because of the way the Chupa is dialed in here...The Chupa sounds more like a boosted plexi here (of course), instead of the hot-rodded thing...I'm pretty confident I could make the Chupa sound meaner/more aggressive messing with the gain/tone switches...

[JD01]

I don't quite follow your routing, but you basically made an effects loop with your interface, only the loop is in between the mic & amp, correct???

Almost right. What I did was create an effects loop within the interface using the SPDIF ins and outs. This way when I plug into the mic input of the motu, it converts the signal to digital and sends it directly to the TC. Then the TC sends the digital signal back into the motu. Doing it this way avoids an extra conversion process by the TC of A/D to DA. The converters in the motu are much better than the TC converters resulting in a cleaner sound.

Ah, I get it now.
Have you done a back to back comparison between using this method and not using it? See how much real difference there actually is.

[ocnor]

Almost right. What I did was create an effects loop within the interface using the SPDIF ins and outs. This way when I plug into the mic input of the motu, it converts the signal to digital and sends it directly to the TC. Then the TC sends the digital signal back into the motu. Doing it this way avoids an extra conversion process by the TC of A/D to DA. The converters in the motu are much better than the TC converters resulting in a cleaner sound.

Ah, I get it now.
Have you done a back to back comparison between using this method and not using it? See how much real difference there actually is.

There are really only 3 ways to run an effect : in front of the amp, in the effects loop, and after the mic. Running any effect in front of the amp drastically changes the character, adds distortion, and any noise gets amplified. Analog effects are the only thing I'd even consider running into the front. Running a digital effect in the loop means that the signal has to be converted from analog to digital and back to analog. Then back to digital through the interface. Plus you have extra gain stages to deal with. The tone IMO gets watered down and just doesn't sound right. The way that I have it routed through the SPDIF lets me run effects in real time with zero latency and no strain on the computer. Normally I don't record with effects on, but it's now a viable option.

[Greg_L]

I think this might be a tone thread first?

Power tube bias shootout!

I'm fine tuning this EL34 > 6550 conversion in the 1973 Super Lead. Playing with bias numbers to get the best sound within the happy range of these tubes.

Gibson Les Paul Custom - Bare Knuckle Riff Raff bridge pickup
Marshall Super Lead 100 - now w/ 6550s
All tone controls on 5
Ch 1 vol - 7
Ch 1 high input only
Marshall 1960B 4x12 - Celestion G12-65
R144 on axis, 3" off grill, dead center - SM57 on axis, 3" off grill, dustcap/cone seam
50/50 mic blend
No FX or EQ

These power tubes are Sovtek 6550WE. Data sheet says they're max 42 watts dissipation, so I did my figures off that. Some people say to bias 6550s in Marshalls like EL34s, but that would have these tubes running way cold. But maybe we'll try that some day. I've got this thing set up so bias measurements and tweaks are super easy now.

First up....cold bias. Approx 45ma current per tube at 470 plate volts DC....this is about 50% plate dissipation yielding 21 watts output per tube. This is usually the "coldest" most people would go on any tube. 50% is plenty cool and safe.

SL100 6550 cold bias 45ma.mp3

Medium bias. Approx 53ma per tube, dropping the plate voltage to about 465 vdc....this yields approximately 60% plate dissipation and 25 watts output per tube. This is my usual target range when setting bias on anything - 60%. Warm enough to get some hot tone, cool enough for good tube life expectancy.

SL100 6550 med bias 53ma.mp3

Hot bias. About 63ma per tube, 460 vdc on the plates....70% plate dissipation, 30 watts per tube. This is usually the recommended max you should go on a push-pull amp. Sure, you can go a little hotter, but you really start eating away tube life once you get into the 70+% dissipation range.

SL100 6550 hot bias 63ma.mp3

So there ya go for now. Bias shootout. Get it in the range, then use your ears.

[Minerman]

I think this might be a tone thread first?

Power tube bias shootout!

I'm fine tuning this EL34 > 6550 conversion in the 1973 Super Lead. Playing with bias numbers to get the best sound within the happy range of these tubes.

Gibson Les Paul Custom - Bare Knuckle Riff Raff bridge pickup
Marshall Super Lead 100 - now w/ 6550s
All tone controls on 5
Ch 1 vol - 7
Ch 1 high input only
Marshall 1960B 4x12 - Celestion G12-65
R144 on axis, 3" off grill, dead center - SM57 on axis, 3" off grill, dustcap/cone seam
50/50 mic blend
No FX or EQ

These power tubes are Sovtek 6550WE. Data sheet says they're max 42 watts dissipation, so I did my figures off that. Some people say to bias 6550s in Marshalls like EL34s, but that would have these tubes running way cold. But maybe we'll try that some day. I've got this thing set up so bias measurements and tweaks are super easy now.

First up....cold bias. Approx 45ma current per tube at 470 plate volts DC....this is about 50% plate dissipation yielding 21 watts output per tube. This is usually the "coldest" most people would go on any tube. 50% is plenty cool and safe.

Medium bias. Approx 53ma per tube, dropping the plate voltage to about 465 vdc....this yields approximately 60% plate dissipation and 25 watts output per tube. This is my usual target range when setting bias on anything - 60%. Warm enough to get some hot tone, cool enough for good tube life expectancy.

Hot bias. About 63ma per tube, 460 vdc on the plates....70% plate dissipation, 30 watts per tube. This is usually the recommended max you should go on a push-pull amp. Sure, you can go a little hotter, but you really start eating away tube life once you get into the 70+% dissipation range.


So there ya go for now. Bias shootout. Get it in the range, then use your ears.

To be honest, I can't hear very much difference in these clips dude...I hear just slight differences, but nothing drastic...That might be totally different in the room though...

Could just be me too though...

[Greg_L]

To be honest, I can't hear very much difference in these clips dude...I hear just slight differences, but nothing drastic...That might be totally different in the room though...

Could just be me too though...

It's not going to be a drastic difference. It's subtle. There are differences though. I actually recorded these clips for my own research because you can't tell anything in the room because it's so fucking ungodly loud.