The Tone Thread

[Greg_L]

lol ..... I was listening to the amp more than the guitar ...... sounds good man ..... the git sounds like I would expect a Mosrite to sound ............. that's a way cool score ...... I've always loved the way they look ......... you've gotta still be just taking it out to marvel at owning it!

As for the pickups ...... I dunno man ..... seems to me that part of wanting an original Mosrite is to have an original Mosrite ..... warts and all.
I mean if you change too much don't you just have a Mosrite-looking guitar?
I really think I would fight those bastards and figure out how to use them on their own merits ..... maybe that's the guitar that sounds almost out of control ...... on the verge of assaulting everyone .... ....... that could be cool in and of itself.


The amp man ..... sounds good .... that's a 6V6 jobbie right?
The 'verb sounds great!
I'm liking the sound of those two together.

Thanks dude. Yup, 6V6. That's the little amp I built last year. It's basically a Fender Deluxe Reverb, but as a head instead of a combo.

The pickups, you're exactly right. I'm gonna do everything in my power to use them as-is. I want to use them. That is the sound. I can deal with them at home. They might not work live, but I'm not sure I wanna take that guitar out live anyway.

[WhiskeyJack]

[mention]Greg_L[/mention] If you don't gig that guitar i am going to fly to katy and have a real hard sit down talk with you over a beer and some BBQ. That guitar is meant to be seen and heard. Yo gotsta gig it! At least once.

those tones are cracking man. I like it. It's hot! And sounds great in the that amp! Loving the bridge on it's own and the bridge with the neck combo. Really good. It's sounds alive. There is a lot of life being captured there dude. Really excellent purchase.

I am going to second LT.Bob and cast a vote to keep the pick ups. I think you can pull it off. Be interesting to see how it will do with your dirty amps but right now i am thinking keep it as is. That's where the magic is man.

[JD01]

Neck - Really like that, it wears the reverb really well. Wasn't that the song that the punk band were playing in the apartment block that drives the guy insane in Driller Killer. Even without all that verb on it, this could be a great clean tone that you'd get a load of use out of - that that you tend to use neck pickups much. I'd be using this tone all the time for cleans.

Don't like both pickups together so much - I think its just a little too thin for me. Fucking noisy that one too! Aside from on a tele, I never like middle positions though - there's just something in their character that I don't like whether its a pair of single coils or a pair of humbuckers.

Bridge - Yeah, this one is great. Sounds like it must be a really hot pickup, you'd need very little gain to turn that into an awesome crunch. Looking forward to hearing your Marshall clips of this.

[rayc]

I'd keep it as is because you're not going to use the neck pickup, (the combo did sound OOP a bit on the chords), and the bridge sounds wonderful.
You've a cleaned up Killer.
Well done.

[Greg_L]

@Greg_L If you don't gig that guitar i am going to fly to katy and have a real hard sit down talk with you over a beer and some BBQ. That guitar is meant to be seen and heard. Yo gotsta gig it! At least once.

those tones are cracking man. I like it. It's hot! And sounds great in the that amp! Loving the bridge on it's own and the bridge with the neck combo. Really good. It's sounds alive. There is a lot of life being captured there dude. Really excellent purchase.

I am going to second LT.Bob and cast a vote to keep the pick ups. I think you can pull it off. Be interesting to see how it will do with your dirty amps but right now i am thinking keep it as is. That's where the magic is man.

Thanks dude. You can come down here to Katy and play it yourself if you want.

My only concern with the pickups are their inherent microphonics. I can't play live and have the guitar howling the whole time. I can deal with it here at home no problem. I certainly don't want to change the pickups. My initial impression was that something might be wrong with them. I went into this thing thinking I might need to change them. I've since learned from Mosrite specialists that that's just how they are.

Neck - Really like that, it wears the reverb really well. Wasn't that the song that the punk band were playing in the apartment block that drives the guy insane in Driller Killer. Even without all that verb on it, this could be a great clean tone that you'd get a load of use out of - that that you tend to use neck pickups much. I'd be using this tone all the time for cleans.

Don't like both pickups together so much - I think its just a little too thin for me. Fucking noisy that one too! Aside from on a tele, I never like middle positions though - there's just something in their character that I don't like whether its a pair of single coils or a pair of humbuckers.

Bridge - Yeah, this one is great. Sounds like it must be a really hot pickup, you'd need very little gain to turn that into an awesome crunch. Looking forward to hearing your Marshall clips of this.

Thanks man. I think I need to balance the neck and bridge pickups a little better. Drop the neck and/or bring the bridge pickup up some. The neck pickup seems to come through a hair louder then the bridge. That's one adjustment I haven't touched yet, so there's room for improvement there. I kind of liked the combined sound. It's both plinky and a little boomy at times. I don't usually like combined pickups either, but I do with this one. And yeah, both pickups are hot. They're still really touch-sensitive though. We'll see how they do today through the Marshalls.

I'd keep it as is because you're not going to use the neck pickup, (the combo did sound OOP a bit on the chords), and the bridge sounds wonderful.
You've a cleaned up Killer.
Well done.

Thanks Ray! I'm loving the bridge pickup. It's got some snarl to it.

[einstein magoo]

Clip 1 = Peter Gunn
Cool chune!

[Greg_L]

Clip 1 = Peter Gunn
Cool chune!

[Greg_L]

Next up, Mosrite and a Marshall. First try with this too, so I just went balls deep instead of sneaking up on it.

Mosrite Ventures
Marshall Super Lead 100
Marshall 1960B 4x12 - Celestion Vintage 30
Senn MD421 on axis, about 3" off grill, about halfway across cone - same placement as the previous Fender-ish clips.
No FX or EQ in DAW

All amp knobs on "5" - presence, bass, mid, treble, volume, all on 5. Bridge pickup full up.

Mosrite Marshall all 5s.mp3

Same amp settings, dicking around with pickups and guitar volume rolling up and down

Mosrite Marshall all 5s all pickups-vol rolling.mp3

And now, full roar, all amp knobs on "10". Everything all the way up. Bridge pickup full up.

Mosrite Marshall all 10s.mp3

It was pretty tough fighting off the pickup howl with the full power clip. Being in the room with this amp going full mental was tough. But I'm pretty close to it. In a live setting I wouldn't be this loud or this close to the amp, so it just might work out.

[Minerman]

Next up, Mosrite and a Marshall. First try with this too, so I just went balls deep instead of sneaking up on it.

Mosrite Ventures
Marshall Super Lead 100
Marshall 1960B 4x12 - Celestion Vintage 30
Senn MD421 on axis, about 3" off grill, about halfway across cone - same placement as the previous Fender-ish clips.
No FX or EQ in DAW

All amp knobs on "5" - presence, bass, mid, treble, volume, all on 5. Bridge pickup full up.
Mosrite Marshall all 5s.mp3


Same amp settings, dicking around with pickups and guitar volume rolling up and down
Mosrite Marshall all 5s all pickups-vol rolling.mp3


And now, full roar, all amp knobs on "10". Everything all the way up. Bridge pickup full up.
Mosrite Marshall all 10s.mp3


It was pretty tough fighting off the pickup howl with the full power clip. Being in the room with this amp going full mental was tough. But I'm pretty close to it. In a live setting I wouldn't be this loud or this close to the amp, so it just might work out.

Impressive Greg, those p'ups sound kinda like the P90 clips you've posted here...Of course, the last clip is my favorite out of the bunch, but they're all good, actually I think they sound really good...

Would putting the cab you're using in another room take care of the feedback/howling??? I know you can't do that live, but at home it might work...

Would a noise gate work on the feedback/howling dude??? Just a thought...

Sounds pretty damn good to me as-is...

[Lt. Bob]

well first off .... the howl.

In a live setting you'd quickly get used to rolling off the volume as soon as you quit playing ..... it's not howling while you're playing .... only as soon as you're quiet.
On live recordings of some of the loudest players you'll often hear a brief blip of that sound right before or immediately after playing.

It's actually part of the coolness to me and about the only way to quite get that specific 'edge-of-destruction, She's gonna blow!' sound .... it's a dangerous sound that requires you to keep your hands around its neck at all times or it'll get loose and turn on ya'.
I like it!


Oh, and I'd use the fuck outta that neck pickup for soaring legato rides with lots of sustain (comp or dist ) and uber-clean rhythms.

[Greg_L]

Impressive Greg, those p'ups sound kinda like the P90 clips you've posted here...Of course, the last clip is my favorite out of the bunch, but they're all good, actually I think they sound really good...

Would putting the cab you're using in another room take care of the feedback/howling??? I know you can't do that live, but at home it might work...

Would a noise gate work on the feedback/howling dude??? Just a thought...

Sounds pretty damn good to me as-is...

Thanks man. These pickups are sort of similar to P90s. They're definitely way hotter than my P90s and have a slightly more "scooped" sound to them. The lows and highs bite more but none of it gets ugly. The mids seem pretty smooth. These are just my own impressions from the little time I've really jammed on them.

A cab in another room would work just fine. It wouldn't stop the buzzing, but the howl would be solved. A noise gate works to a degree, but once the feedback starts the gate won't clamp it off. I have to roll the vol down then the gate will engage. If I set the gate more aggressively then it cuts off lighter picking or volume rolling.

well first .... off the howl.

In a live setting you'd quickly get used to rolling off the volume as soon as you quit playing ..... it's not howling while you're playing .... only as soon as you're quiet.
On live recordings of some of the loudest players you'll often hear a brief blip of that sound right before or immediately after playing.

It's actually part of the coolness to me and about the only way to quite get that specific 'edge-of-destruction, She's gonna blow!' sound .... it's a dangerous sound that requires you to keep your hands around its neck at all times or it'll get loose and turn on ya'.
I like it!


Oh, and I'd use the fuck outta that neck pickup for soaring legato rides with lots of sustain (comp or dist ) and uber-clean rhythms.

Thanks dude, and I agree. I don't mind noise and feedback. Social Distortion's Mike Ness is notorious for the roll-the-volume-up thing right before songs start. You can hear it on their recordings. You hear this buzzing wail real quick then the song blasts off. I love it. The very first time I saw the Ramones was the same thing. The stage was pitch black, the only lights were the dim red lights from the amps on stage. I could faintly see the band run out and there was this quick growing buzzy howl from Johnny Ramone rolling on his guitar volume and then "1-2-3-4" and the band was off and running at full power. No warning, no "Hi how are you", just run out all systems go blast off. The only hint that my face was about be melted was that quick screeching rolling up of the guitar volume. It was a life changing experience for me.

I'm getting two different things though. One of them is normal feedback which I love. Sustain-into-feedback is a beautiful thing. No problem there. The howl I keep mentioning can creep in right in the middle of everything and it doesn't seem to have any root in a harmonic or fundamental of the notes being played. It's like it's own dissonant howl that sits inside of the sound. It's definitely microphonics. I can talk into the pickups and it will come through the amp with enough loudness and/or gain. But I do really like the sounds I'm getting so I'm just gonna live with it and work around it. The replace-the-pickups idea is totally off the table.

[Minerman]

Thanks man. These pickups are sort of similar to P90s. They're definitely way hotter than my P90s and have a slightly more "scooped" sound to them. The lows and highs bite more but none of it gets ugly. The mids seem pretty smooth. These are just my own impressions from the little time I've really jammed on them.

A cab in another room would work just fine. It wouldn't stop the buzzing, but the howl would be solved. A noise gate works to a degree, but once the feedback starts the gate won't clamp it off. I have to roll the vol down then the gate will engage. If I set the gate more aggressively then it cuts off lighter picking or volume rolling.

It's all good man, I just wondered if a gate might help, I've never used one myself, other than dicking around in Reaper...

And like Bob mentioned, recording-wise the howl wouldn't be an issue because you can edit it all out...

Seems you've found yet another great tone flavor for your arsenal...

[Greg_L]

It's all good man, I just wondered if a gate might help, I've never used one myself, other than dicking around in Reaper...

And like Bob mentioned, recording-wise the howl wouldn't be an issue because you can edit it all out...

Seems you've found yet another great tone flavor for your arsenal...

The really weird thing is that the howl I keep talking about was way way worse in the shop when I first touched the guitar. It was almost a deal breaker. I wonder if their lighting was weird or they had bad RF interference or something. Here at home, the potential for howl is there but it's manageable. In the settings on "5" clips the howl didn't rear it's head at all. I could use that tone all day long. I really like that biting crunchy kind of sound. I did have to beat it back in the fully cranked clip, but I don't operate like that most of the time anyway. So I think the howling thing was overblown by me. My own fault. This guitar has been a very pleasant whirlwind.

[Minerman]

[The really weird thing is that the howl I keep talking about was way way worse in the shop when I first touched the guitar. It was almost a deal breaker. I wonder if their lighting was weird or they had bad RF interference or something. Here at home, the potential for howl is there but it's manageable. In the settings on "5" clips the howl didn't rear it's head at all. I could use that tone all day long. I really like that biting crunchy kind of sound. I did have to beat it back in the fully cranked clip, but I don't operate like that most of the time anyway. So I think the howling thing was overblown by me. My own fault. This guitar has been a very pleasant whirlwind.

Anything's possible dude, that shop very well could've had wiring/electrical stuff goin' on, but it doesn't matter now, seems like you've got it sorted to me...I think I may have rubbed off on you with my habit of over-thinking things too much...lol...

I'm happy for ya dude, that's a once in a lifetime guitar for you, so I say just rock out with your cock out man...

[Greg_L]

Anything's possible dude, that shop very well could've had wiring/electrical stuff goin' on, but it doesn't matter now, seems like you've got it sorted to me...I think I may have rubbed off on you with my habit of over-thinking things too much...lol...

I'm happy for ya dude, that's a once in a lifetime guitar for you, so I say just rock out with your cock out man...

[Lt. Bob]

I wonder if anyone's tried to wax pot them?
Is that epoxy totally covering the windings?

Also a git like that may very well require you to use different settings in your amps than your other gits.
When they made those, they figured they'd be played thru Twin Reverbs or Dual Showmans ...... so they were designed to drive that sort of amp.
It's just a different beast with it's own attitude.

I may be old and it's true that my current gigs don't allow for, or need, that bristling anger sound ....... but I still love it.
Nothing quite like that ya' know?

Gigging it?
Well, I would ...... at least occasionally ...... but for me it would all come down to, "Is it my favorite git for gigging?"

It could go either way ..... I might make it my "signature" guitar that everyone knows only I use ..... or that tiny neck and those non-existent frets might relegate it to the studio.

[Greg_L]

I wonder if anyone's tried to wax pot them?
Is that epoxy totally covering the windings?

I dare not dig into these pickups myself, but from what I've seen just looking at them and what I've researched about them, it seems the pickups are made fairly traditionally, then sealed in epoxy, then put inside the covers, backed with a strip of foam, then epoxied again.

So I'm not sure potting them in wax would even do anything if the coils are encased in epoxy.

If I remember correctly the pickups in my Hallmark are made similarly but they aren't microphonic. They don't quite sound the same either. I will do a Hallmark vs Mosrite shootout soon.

Also a git like that may very well require you to use different settings in your amps than your other gits.
When they made those, they figured they'd be played thru Twin Reverbs or Dual Showmans ...... so they were designed to drive that sort of amp.
It's just a different beast with it's own attitude.

I may be old and it's true that my current gigs don't allow for, or need, that bristling anger sound ....... but I still love it.
Nothing quite like that ya' know?

Yes, all that exactly. The amps I'm using for most of my stuff didn't even exist when this guitar was made. Marshall as an amp company was still in it's infancy. In 1965 Marshall was just starting to figure out and try amps over 50 watts. This guitar was made for hot surfy cleans...like The Ventures.

Gigging it?
Well, I would ...... at least occasionally ...... but for me it would all come down to, "Is it my favorite git for gigging?"

It could go either way ..... I might make it my "signature" guitar that everyone knows only I use ..... or that tiny neck and those non-existent frets might relegate it to the studio.

I've gotten pretty used to the tiny neck now. So much so that I played my SG for the first time in a week at band practice last night and I was flubbing notes all over the place because the neck is so relatively gigantic.

The project I'm with right now on guitar is pretty hardcore punk rock. It's really fast and really loud and I play some junky leads. It really needs the humbucker sound in my opinion. I've tried my P90 guitars with that project and they don't quite have the drive that humbuckers do for the sound I need in that particular band. But...I can still bring the Mosrite to practice and try it out. That would actually be a good test for the pickups. If it doesn't howl in the practice room, I'm good to go. We're really fucking loud in there. I didn't get this guitar to replace all of my other ones. But it will definitely have a role in my solo music productions.

[JD01]

just getting around to listening!

first thing (on the 5s clip) - bloody hell that's noisy. Even when you were doing the palm muted bits you could hear the buzz.
I think it sounds a bit too trebly and angry for me - I'm sure it'll sound great in a mix, but its not something I'd dial in.

I actually really like both pickups with the crunch through the Marshall though - I didn't like both pups when it was into you Retard.

LOL - the all on 10 clip is great! I does have that slightly thin overly trebly sound that the 5s clip has, it just sounds fucking savage! You could probably do with dialing it back a bit to tidy it up, but this is great!

[rayc]

I could easily live with the "noise" - I loved each clip in both amps. It does the Marshall Ramones' things superbly doesn't it? How could you not want to have that experience live and YES you're right about gig proximity and volume.
All that noise makes it more real - this isn't Muttalicker with their studio enhancements and sped up recordings.

[Greg_L]

Thanks [mention]JD01[/mention] [mention]rayc[/mention]

The noise isn't that bad. It's a blazing hot single coil four feet from a 130db amp and there's a lot of interference in here at the time. I also had a TV, oscillating fan, and a bunch of lights on too - there's gonna be noise. That never helps matters. All single coils hum and buzz and it wouldn't show up in a mix unless there's some empty passage where it's just guitar.