The Tone Thread

[WhiskeyJack]

Going back a couple pages to catch up with you guys....Good bass tone Shan, impressive it's an actual mic'd bass, & even more impressive you got that much low end from a 10" speaker...Greg does great with his guitar cabs, so I'm convinced I gotta get on that train with you guys, this clip just reinforces it that much more...I usually go the ampsim route, but it's time to jump into this like you guys...
Well done...

Thanks Miner. I just found that a P-BAss DI'd just barfs out every single freq the thing puts out and kind of makes it a nightmare to mix using an amp sim. I find ampsim'd bass to be worse than amp sim'd guitars in terms of beleiveability and authenticness. I have a bass rig why not use it? It doesn't have that nice ampeg growl i so desperately want but whatever, this is a good enough kick off point as any to start working myself towards all that. I put the foundation of a song up for review in the listening booth so you can see how this tone sits in a mix. it needs a bit of work lol.

Doing some more catch up here...Nothing at all wrong with these tones Shan, I'd be proud to pull these off man...IMHO, you sweat this stuff too much, kinda like the way I obsess over all this...It's all good dude, just keep on keepin' like you are & you'll be fine...

Is the p'up in your LpJr a P90??? If so, wanna thank you for giving me GAS for another guitar...I think one of the new double-cut Jr's in blue with P90's would look really good next to my strat & SG...

Great tones man...

yes that is the stock P90. [mention]muttley[/mention] made me a really slick set of RW/RP G-90s to stick in this thing but like everything else i do i just keep putting it off for work or house stuff. if i am not mistaken that is the next thing on my DIY electircal upgrade thing anyways so hopefully ya'll can hear them soon. I do love that guitar though. I don't feel bad for giving you gas at all. Everyone needs a Junior of any species. My Jr. Is the first guitar i reach for every time all the time always. it feels right, it sounds right, it's tough and meaty. A few guitar turds keep telling me to put it away and save it because of the year it was made and some other foolish BS and that it already a collectors piece. It's just a Junior?? I have even had two offers from people to buy it. One is a close friend of mine and one person messaged me on instagram. I don't really give a shit about any of that. it is a workhorse, it was made to be played and i do that as much as i can. I haven't really been kind to it either. it's been dropped, the dogs have knocked it all about, i've spilled beer and coffee all over it And it stays in tune and it's playable all the time even after a bit of a beating. I would hate to see what shape that would be in if i played in a band or live to any capacity.

if you got extra shekels laying around miner treat yourself dude.

[Minerman]

I must be using it wrong. I bet it has to be used in front of a clean amp.

I think you'd get better results using it that way...The Bogner Red pedal I had was like that, it just sounded like ass as a boost...But, it was pretty damn good through a clean amp...
You'd probably like this Real Tube pedal I have because to me, it sounds fuzzy with the gain & level up too much, but as as boost it can sound pretty good, as long as you keep all the knobs in check...

Thanks Miner. I just found that a P-BAss DI'd just barfs out every single freq the thing puts out and kind of makes it a nightmare to mix using an amp sim. I find ampsim'd bass to be worse than amp sim'd guitars in terms of beleiveability and authenticness.

if you got extra shekels laying around miner treat yourself dude.

My Jackson bass does the same thing, but I'm learning how it sounds best a little at a time...It's got active humbuckers in it, & I'd never used those before, so that added to the mess I'd already been making for years on the bass side...I'm gonna give it a shot through my Mini Jubilee's clean channel through my 4x12...

I'm trying to save up for a 20w JCM 800, but it's still gonna be a while before I hit that mark...I just gotta play it cool for a while longer & try to resist anything else...

[Greg_L]

Okay sorry for the delay...here's some more of that EVH 5150 OD pedal.

This time into a very clean setting on my Deluxe Retard build.

Les Paul - Muttbucker PAF bridge...and some neck pickup
Deluxe Reverb kit - Normal channel - bright switch off
Volume - 2
Bass - 5
Treble - 5
Marshall 1960A 4x12 - Celestion Greenbacks
Shure SM57 on axis, on grill, just outside dustcap
No FX or EQ

EVH 5150 OD
Volume - 2:00 - Bass 1:00 - Mid 12:00 - Treble 10:00 - Gain 9:00.....then 12:00 later in the clip

It's pretty obvious here that I just fuck around and toggle the pedal on and off.

DR + EVH5150.mp3

See what you think of this clusterfuck.

[WhiskeyJack]

Okay sorry for the delay...here's some more of that EVH 5150 OD pedal.

This time into a very clean setting on my Deluxe Retard build.

Les Paul - Muttbucker PAF bridge...and some neck pickup
Deluxe Reverb kit - Normal channel - bright switch off
Volume - 2
Bass - 5
Treble - 5
Marshall 1960A 4x12 - Celestion Greenbacks
Shure SM57 on axis, on grill, just outside dustcap
No FX or EQ

EVH 5150 OD
Volume - 2:00 - Bass 1:00 - Mid 12:00 - Treble 10:00 - Gain 9:00.....then 12:00 later in the clip

It's pretty obvious here that I just fuck around and toggle the pedal on and off.
DR + EVH5150.mp3

See what you think of this clusterfuck.

There is a lot more gain in there than i thought i would ever hear come from you. I'm not sold on it really. At least for you. I think if it had a place anywhere for anyone it would be for the types of players that have little amps that want a big amp sound in their bedroom. But i don't know. maybe high guys can chime in it and correct me. this might be a really great high gain sound.

giving it a second listen (ear buds at work) those palm mutey parts really have a wumph to them.

Slightly off topic is that pedal supposed ot be able to duplicate the "brown sound" ? I don't even really know what the hell that is but i figured i'd ask anyways?

[Greg_L]

There is a lot more gain in there than i thought i would ever hear come from you. I'm not sold on it really. At least for you. I think if it had a place anywhere for anyone it would be for the types of players that have little amps that want a big amp sound in their bedroom. But i don't know. maybe high guys can chime in it and correct me. this might be a really great high gain sound.

I totally agree. It's way too much gain, even at a low setting, and I hate it. And it does seem to be for guys that use a clean amp as a pedal platform. It's much better behaved in front of a clean amp than it is in front of a dirty amp. Not for me. And the guy I got it from raves about how it sounds in front of a low volume at-home rig. I suppose that could be right, but for me it's garbage.

Slightly off topic is that pedal supposed ot be able to duplicate the "brown sound" ? I don't even really know what the hell that is but i figured i'd ask anyways?

No, this is not the "brown sound". At least not to me. The "brown sound" is a Plexi nearing meltdown. It's also in how you play. EVH sounds like EVH no matter what he plays through. It's a distinct sound, it's the way he plays, and this pedal is not the magic recipe as far as I'm concerned. Maybe someone else could coax that kind of sound out of it, but I can't. I wouldn't use that sound even if I could get it.

[WhiskeyJack]

No, this is not the "brown sound". At least not to me. The "brown sound" is a Plexi nearing meltdown. It's also in how you play. EVH sounds like EVH no matter what he plays through. It's a distinct sound, it's the way he plays, and this pedal is not the magic recipe as far as I'm concerned. Maybe someone else could coax that kind of sound out of it, but I can't. I wouldn't use that sound even if I could get it.

Can you link me to a really good example of this unicorn so i can hear it. i had always heard of it, but didn't much care really. Now i am curious really.

[Greg_L]

Can you link me to a really good example of this unicorn so i can hear it. i had always heard of it, but didn't much care really. Now i am curious really.

[BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzkXGIR ... tL&index=4[/BBvideo]

[BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTY8s12 ... tL&index=2[/BBvideo]


People to this day still chase this sound. This is ground zero for all wanky shredders everywhere. Like it or not, Eddie Van Halen revolutionized rock and metal guitar playing. If you put yourself back to 1977 or whenever this was, it had to be pretty mind blowing. Think of "guitar heroes" in the 70s. It was all pretty tame bluesy classic rock stuff like Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page, Peter Frampton, Richie Blackmore, stupid fucking Ted Nugent....then Eddie Van Halen came along and destroyed all of them. "Eruption" had to be like some shit from outer space in that era.

[musicturtle]

People to this day still chase this sound. This is ground zero for all wanky shredders everywhere. Like it or not, Eddie Van Halen revolutionized rock and metal guitar playing. If you put yourself back to 1977 or whenever this was, it had to be pretty mind blowing. Think of "guitar heroes" in the 70s. It was all pretty tame bluesy classic rock stuff like Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page, Peter Frampton, Richie Blackmore, stupid fucking Ted Nugent....then Eddie Van Halen came along and destroyed all of them. "Eruption" had to be like some shit from outer space in that era.

Yeah I remember the Christmas morning my brother got Van Halen 1 as a present. 1978 maybe?

Even as an 8 year old kid I knew I was hearing something different when I heard the first two tracks. I still remember looking at the cassette player/radio combo(I think that was my present) in amazement at the sound coming out.

[Minerman]

Okay sorry for the delay...here's some more of that EVH 5150 OD pedal.

This time into a very clean setting on my Deluxe Retard build.

Les Paul - Muttbucker PAF bridge...and some neck pickup
Deluxe Reverb kit - Normal channel - bright switch off
Volume - 2
Bass - 5
Treble - 5
Marshall 1960A 4x12 - Celestion Greenbacks
Shure SM57 on axis, on grill, just outside dustcap
No FX or EQ

EVH 5150 OD
Volume - 2:00 - Bass 1:00 - Mid 12:00 - Treble 10:00 - Gain 9:00.....then 12:00 later in the clip

It's pretty obvious here that I just fuck around and toggle the pedal on and off.

See what you think of this clusterfuck.

Nothing wrong with this tone to my ears Greg, but it's just not something I'd hear you use, so it's kinda outta place...I'd try running the volume on the pedal a little higher, & adjusting the gain down as it increased, but that's just going by what I hear...The pedal may act completely different than that, so YMMV...

I don't get into all these drive pedals like some guys do, I have the usual SD-1 (my favorite), Mini TS9, & the odd BK Butler Real Tube, so I'm pretty much set with drive pedals...Honestly, I'm quite happy going straight into the Chupacabra, as it has more gain than anyone would ever need & sounds great, to me anyway...The Mini Jubilee does sound better/tighter when boosted & going for a hair metal tone IMO though, but still doesn't actually need a pedal...

So this is something I've wondered for a while: Would one of the new Mini 800's bring anything to my stable that I don't already have with the Chupa/Mini Jubilee??? I'd love to have one just because it's small like the Mini J, but that's a lot of coin & I could find an actual JCM 800 (used) for that much, or just a little more...What do you guys think???

[mention]WhiskeyJack[/mention] : I have several isolated Van Halen tracks if you'd be interested in 'em...The brown sound changed a little from each of the first 6 albums, & I have at least one or two from all those, so lemme know, I'd be glad to upload 'em so you could hear 'em proper...While he is probably my biggest hero, his tone changed a lot after Roth left, & the brown sound has been gone since, but the Roth era albums are magical, to me anyway...Lemme know...

FWIW, the "brown sound" ain't in anything with "EVH" stamped on it that's sold these days...There are a few different ways to get there, but it's basically a strat with a humbucker into a cranked plexi through Greenbacks...

[Greg_L]

Nothing wrong with this tone to my ears Greg, but it's just not something I'd hear you use, so it's kinda outta place...I'd try running the volume on the pedal a little higher, & adjusting the gain down as it increased, but that's just going by what I hear...The pedal may act completely different than that, so YMMV...

I had to run the volume on the pedal up around 2:00 just get "unity". That's where pedal on and pedal off was the same approximate volume through the speaker. Seemed like a lot to me, but that's what it took.

I don't get into all these drive pedals like some guys do,

Me neither. The pedal industry and pedal people have lost their fucking minds.

So this is something I've wondered for a while: Would one of the new Mini 800's bring anything to my stable that I don't already have with the Chupa/Mini Jubilee??? I'd love to have one just because it's small like the Mini J, but that's a lot of coin & I could find an actual JCM 800 (used) for that much, or just a little more...What do you guys think???

Honestly, no, I don't think you'd get anything new and exciting from a mini 800. The Chupa and Jube both have more gain than an 800. The Chupa's preamp and tone stack is probably very similar to an 800. While I think the JCM 800 2203 is the greatest amp ever made, for you, compared to what you already have and the tones you typically go for, I truly don't think you'd get anything out of an 800 unless you had a big one and got to use it loud.

@WhiskeyJack : I have several isolated Van Halen tracks if you'd be interested in 'em...The brown sound changed a little from each of the first 6 albums,

I think technically only the first album is considered "brown sound" by VH purists and tone snobs. That's *the one*. No one ever wants to sound like 1984 or whatever the later albums are. They want to sound like Van Halen 1.

FWIW, the "brown sound" ain't in anything with "EVH" stamped on it that's sold these days...There are a few different ways to get there, but it's basically a strat with a humbucker into a cranked plexi through Greenbacks...

I think there was something to his pickup. I always thought it almost sounded like a hot single coil, and then I read that one of his humbucker coils was either very weak or fully dead. I don't know if that's true, I don't know if it even can be true, but it makes sense because his sound is very focused and bright - not very humbuckerish when talking about going into a cranked plexi.

We also know that EVH is a habitual liar and fried from decades of alcohol and drug use, so there's no telling what actually went on when recording those early albums.

[Minerman]

I had to run the volume on the pedal up around 2:00 just get "unity". That's where pedal on and pedal off was the same approximate volume through the speaker. Seemed like a lot to me, but that's what it took.

Ok, gotcha...I kinda do that with the BK Butler pedal when I use it...I suppose it'd be like using a pedal for the drive sound at at gig & kinda volume-matching the levels...

Me neither. The pedal industry and pedal people have lost their fucking minds.

It's insane how many drive pedals are on the market, I mean, it's just silly IMO...I know there are some great drive pedals, but there are just so many that are basically the same thing, just in a different colored box...

Honestly, no, I don't think you'd get anything new and exciting from a mini 800. The Chupa and Jube both have more gain than an 800. The Chupa's preamp and tone stack is probably very similar to an 800. While I think the JCM 800 2203 is the greatest amp ever made, for you, compared to what you already have and the tones you typically go for, I truly don't think you'd get anything out of an 800 unless you had a big one and got to use it loud.

Thanks man, that's what I've been thinking lately too...I could probably get the Chupa to sound similar with low gain, hell, it's almost the same thing to begin with...The Mini J is similar too, but not as much, so I dunno if I'll spring for one of the baby 800's or not after all...Until I either move or circumstances change here, I'd never get to use a real 800 how it's supposed to be...I was planning on having the baby 800 around my b-day (November), but I'm not sure now...Doesn't matter, can't swing it at the moment & they're actually selling about as fast as they can ship 'em, so...

I've heard some good sounding clips, but I've also heard the baby 800 compared to the little 20w DSL & they sounded really similar, with some tweaking the DSL could've sounded identical, or close enough anyway...I'm just gonna keep adding to the jar for a while, I've already got my dream amp, so anything else will have to fill a tall order even to compete...The Mini Jube is good, but it's not even in the same category as the Chupacabra...I don't want another "so-so" amp, I've had plenty of those, I want something that's gonna "wow" me & add something I don't have...

I think technically only the first album is considered "brown sound" by VH purists and tone snobs. That's *the one*. No one ever wants to sound like 1984 or whatever the later albums are. They want to sound like Van Halen 1.

You're right, the rest are just variations of the original tone IMO...The base tone is a pissed off Marshall-y sound, but varied depending on who knows what, but again, you're correct, "the" brown sound is from the 1st album...

I think there was something to his pickup. I always thought it almost sounded like a hot single coil, and then I read that one of his humbucker coils was either very weak or fully dead. I don't know if that's true, I don't know if it even can be true, but it makes sense because his sound is very focused and bright - not very humbuckerish when talking about going into a cranked plexi.

I read that somewhere too, & it does kinda make sense...It's like the attack of a humbucker is there, but the sustain is off compared to any I've used...

I don't think he planned any of that shit, I think it's just what happened when he was just trying to get his shit to work/actually make sound hahahaha...Look at that guitar, it's basically held together with tape/glue/whatever, so it is very possible the p'up wasn't working correctly because he probably just twisted wires together until it made sound...I hate to admit it, but I've did shit like that years ago when the upcoming gig was the only thing I was concerned about...Before I met you guys here, I didn't give one fuck about anything that I do now, it was all about the gig & that moment...I really didn't actually know about the shit I do now...When I got my Valvestate stack, I took the back off the cabs just to make sure they were Celestions (which I now know were the shitty predecessors of the MG speakers )...I had no idea there were so many variants, as long as "Celestion" was stamped/stickered on 'em, that's all that mattered to me back then...

We also know that EVH is a habitual liar and fried from decades of alcohol and drug use, so there's no telling what actually went on when recording those early albums.

Yeah, it's a shame he's a bat-shit crazy liar who's completely full of shit to put it mildly because he's so revered as a musician...

[WhiskeyJack]

[mention]Minerman[/mention] yea man for sure. Upload away i am genuinely curious. I dont think i am going to go chasing it for myself but for such a revoloutionary game changer i am ceetainly not at all familiar with it. The links greg posted helped and *i think* i get it. But usolated on their own would be cool.

[mention]Greg_L[/mention] i dont think equates to too much and perhaps i am reading far more into it but that OD i just got i have to set my output / volume at 2 oclock as well to ne at clean unity. When i posted those notably boring sound bites when i got the hantaun thats what i was trying to do. See where unity was on the pedals. Hantaun unity was at 2 ish.

Interesting.

[Greg_L]

@Minerman yea man for sure. Upload away i am genuinely curious. I dont think i am going to go chasing it for myself but for such a revoloutionary game changer i am ceetainly not at all familiar with it. The links greg posted helped and *i think* i get it. But usolated on their own would be cool.

@Greg_L i dont think equates to too much and perhaps i am reading far more into it but that OD i just got i have to set my output / volume at 2 oclock as well to ne at clean unity. When i posted those notably boring sound bites when i got the hantaun thats what i was trying to do. See where unity was on the pedals. Hantaun unity was at 2 ish.

Interesting.

Yeah I don't ever even mess with the output on my regular OD pedals. They stay at max. They're just boosts more than anything else. The more I mess with all these stupid dirtboxes the more I appreciate the simplicity and usefulness of the good ol basic Tube Screamer or Super Overdrive. I've never tried to find unity on either of those. I just crank the output to the max and use them as boosters.

[JD01]

Jesus, that's awful.
The intro and the bit with the clean phaser are alright.

The high gain stuff is just sounds minging.

[Minerman]

Yeah I don't ever even mess with the output on my regular OD pedals. They stay at max. They're just boosts more than anything else. The more I mess with all these stupid dirtboxes the more I appreciate the simplicity and usefulness of the good ol basic Tube Screamer or Super Overdrive. I've never tried to find unity on either of those. I just crank the output to the max and use them as boosters.

That's the only way to roll, in my humble opinion dude, boost an already dirty amp into meltdown is where it's at...

Weird we were talking about drive pedals yesterday & Pete Thorn posted a vid about Treble Boosters:
[BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQFdP6PaKTk[/BBvideo]

I think he's simply a great player & I like most of his vids, they're a lot better than most anyway...

[Minerman]

[mention]WhiskeyJack[/mention]

I'm gonna do this 2 tracks per album to keep it kinda organized...I converted 'em all to mp3 so our buddies who don't use Reaper can use 'em too (I have ogg files, which automatically open in Reaper)...I only edited one of 'em the beginning of "Hot For Teacher" has a 45 second or so drum intro, so I cut most of it out, but the rest are un-edited (by me anyway)...

From "Van Halen":

Eruption.mp3

I'm The One.mp3

[Minerman]

From "Van Halen II":

Somebody Get Me A Doctor.mp3

Dance The Night Away.mp3

[Minerman]

From "Women & Children First":

Romeo Delight.mp3

Loss Of Control.mp3

[Minerman]

From "Diver Down":

Hang 'Em High.mp3

Little Guitars.mp3

"Little Guitars" has an acoustic intro, but the electric guitar starts around 0:50 or so...One of my favorite VH songs btw...

[Minerman]

From "Fair Warning":

Mean Street.mp3

Unchained.mp3