The Tone Thread

[Greg_L]

[mention]WhiskeyJack[/mention]


Also.....listen to this. Pay close attention to the guitar(s).

[BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOfvPNa ... AHKfD9MnP0[/BBvideo]

Check out our boy Egerton's sound. This is something that has perplexed me on Descendents recordings for a while now. Besides sounding pretty fucking awesome, check the spread. Now, IMO, he's either the greatest most tightest double tracker of all time, or this is a stereo recording of a single guitar performance. The spread is not super wide, but there is some separation. The tone between left and right is also slightly different. I'm thinking it's either some digital finagling, maybe some room miking, maybe the guitar is split into two completely different amp rigs. Maybe all of the above. There is definitely some tonal and time/space difference between the two sides, but it still sounds like the same performance. Whatever it is, it's really cool and sounds huge and full while not being really panned wide.

[WhiskeyJack]

Not really. I usually just stay on the same speaker. I sometimes blend different types of speakers, but if I'm just focused on one speaker I'll usually just mic that one.

Fair enough. these aren't different speakers. All V30's. I'm one part being lazy and one part trying to keep the organization in here sorted out. I have a little mic boom sandwhiched in between the 412 and 2x10 so i can just share the space for both amps. Then i managed to make use of the stupid cab grabber thing. I put it up on top and it is working ok there. Kind of limiting though as it only goes down so far and it's position from the grill cloth is what is unless i start putting shims in there to move it away. Not sure the juice is worth the squeeze on that investment.

The close mic hyper focused sound is usually what we're after for our kind of stuff.

Truth. I think if i ever branch out into more cleaner type stuff with a bit more ambiance i might set my spatial goals a little higher but full on grit in your face doesn't need the overkill. I like simple. this two mic thing was out in the weeds for me but i think i am going to really like it.

Also.....listen to this. Pay close attention to the guitar(s).

Man i have never actually sat and autopsied a descendants guitar performance because i am usually fixated on karls bass sounds and performances, but hell yea to all of what you said. Those guitars are definitely not sitting out at 100% And tonally i can hear a difference between the actual sounds, the little harmonic trail outs give that away, but i think the performance is deadass the same. Or he is just a punk rock robot like you suggested. There was a few spots in that last part of the closing bridge where it sounded like he MAY have played a different octave (@ 1:44 - 1:46) but I'l be damned if i can say definitively that he did or not. I want to say the left plays the lower part while the right plays the higher part but man i really can't be certain.

Still cool just the same. I think the next time i listen to one of their records i'll probably play closer attention. I would suspect the new stuff is just chok full of studio wizardry going He & Stevenson manning the controls. frig.

[Greg_L]

Fair enough. these aren't different speakers. All V30's. I'm one part being lazy and one part trying to keep the organization in here sorted out. I have a little mic boom sandwhiched in between the 412 and 2x10 so i can just share the space for both amps. Then i managed to make use of the stupid cab grabber thing. I put it up on top and it is working ok there. Kind of limiting though as it only goes down so far and it's position from the grill cloth is what is unless i start putting shims in there to move it away. Not sure the juice is worth the squeeze on that investment.

Nothing wrong with any of that. Another small mic stand beats the cab grabber though.

Man i have never actually sat and autopsied a descendants guitar performance because i am usually fixated on karls bass sounds and performances, but hell yea to all of what you said. Those guitars are definitely not sitting out at 100% And tonally i can hear a difference between the actual sounds, the little harmonic trail outs give that away, but i think the performance is deadass the same. Or he is just a punk rock robot like you suggested. There was a few spots in that last part of the closing bridge where it sounded like he MAY have played a different octave (@ 1:44 - 1:46) but I'l be damned if i can say definitively that he did or not. I want to say the left plays the lower part while the right plays the higher part but man i really can't be certain.

Still cool just the same. I think the next time i listen to one of their records i'll probably play closer attention. I would suspect the new stuff is just chok full of studio wizardry going He & Stevenson manning the controls. frig.

Yeah there are some things that make me think it's a true double tracking performance. But goddamn, it's so tight I'm left to wonder. Another thing they do a lot of is the guitar solos are played with the rhythms. I can't recall a specific song, there's so many of them, but I know I've heard their stuff where the rhythms drop out during the guitar solo because he plays the solo in the rhythm tracks like it's live. I love it. And...again...it's either doubled or a stereo trick. The solos are note for note identical. Shit, just ask him on the tweeter or wherever you've talked with him.

And yeah, Karl fucking rips on bass. Whenever people say shit like punk rockers can't play, I show them stuff like this.

[JD01]

here i got a few tones up for autopsy.

this was a bit of an experiment with getting use to the room and now being in the same room as the cab. Bit of an adjustment but its for the best. trying to get a good tone from a cab in another room is difficult if you are by yourself. Excuse this playing, it was more an exercise of tone capturing tweaking with two mics versus making sure i was playing perfectly. (Read: I suck and i am ok with it, but unfortunate for you lot )

this was the best i got. as usual this amp is just thick and woolly and even at this point what i feel to be the best is still too wooly. I liejk the way it sounds in the room. So i am chalking it up to it maybe being possibly too loud or just not ideal mic placement.

All amp settings are the same:

Master = 5
treble = 7
Mid = 7
bass = 6
gain = 5

It switches from open chords to some palm muting and chugging around 0:29

LP Jr Bridge P90 > AD30 > V30 > SM57 about an inch off the grille just outside the cap on the cone.
20190313 Lp Orange 57.mp3

LP Jr Bridge P90 > AD30 > V30 > e906 about an inch and a bit off the grille little bit over the cap rest over the cone. maybe? hard ot tell with that e906 but i suppose that's what the logo is for on the back of the mic.
20190313 Lp Orange 906.mp3

And both those blended together this is a little louder than the other two so turn down if you want
20190313 Lp Orange 57-906.mp3


I know i have alot of room for improvement. But i am just looking to know if anyone else hears the wool and darkness? How can i bring i bit of life and snap into this. I think i am going to try turning down a little bit maybe and see if i can open it up a little. it just doesn't feel like it is breathing or alive?

Shan, I've finally got around to listening this. I reckon they sound pretty awesome - I'd love to have them in a mix.

[WhiskeyJack]

Shan, I've finally got around to listening this. I reckon they sound pretty awesome - I'd love to have them in a mix.

Oi thanks JD. Will find it's way into some mixes soon enough.

[WhiskeyJack]

OK - so I chucked some new strings on the Burns Bison and gave it a quick run through so you could get an idea of what it sounds like.

Each of the two tracks has the same sequence played 6 times, covering the 6 main sounds (I left off the out of phase quacky one + the direct drive) in the following order

Neck coil tapped
Neck humbucker
Bridge coil tapped
Bridge humbucker
Both coil tapped
Both humbucker

I just quickly dialled up a couple of profiles, did some basic EQ and just left it at that - so I'm not putting these things out there as great tones, just a quick whip through the options in half an hour on a Saturday afternoon. Reverb was whatever was on the patch. One profile is miro's favourite amp, the Carol Anne - the other purports to be a JCM800 - I'm not so familiar with trying to get decent tones from those profiles, so it's probably a bit sucky.

TAF Carol Anne.mp3

TAF Marshall JCM800 Drive.mp3

I've made no attempt to EQ them in a mix sense, or normalise the volume, which is more apparent in the cleaner Carol Anne sample.

Man that thing sounds good [mention]Armistice[/mention] !!! For the Carol Anne one i think i really liked the first Neck coil tapped with the both coil tapped as a close second. And for your JCM tones the bridge coil tapped is my favorite on it's own, though i think in a mix you'd do well with the bridge in humbucker position.

Are you going to start driving that bad boy more?

[Greg_L]

OK - so I chucked some new strings on the Burns Bison and gave it a quick run through so you could get an idea of what it sounds like.

Each of the two tracks has the same sequence played 6 times, covering the 6 main sounds (I left off the out of phase quacky one + the direct drive) in the following order

Neck coil tapped
Neck humbucker
Bridge coil tapped
Bridge humbucker
Both coil tapped
Both humbucker

I just quickly dialled up a couple of profiles, did some basic EQ and just left it at that - so I'm not putting these things out there as great tones, just a quick whip through the options in half an hour on a Saturday afternoon. Reverb was whatever was on the patch. One profile is miro's favourite amp, the Carol Anne - the other purports to be a JCM800 - I'm not so familiar with trying to get decent tones from those profiles, so it's probably a bit sucky.

TAF Carol Anne.mp3

TAF Marshall JCM800 Drive.mp3

I've made no attempt to EQ them in a mix sense, or normalise the volume, which is more apparent in the cleaner Carol Anne sample.

Pretty cool! None of those sound bad to me at all. All usable in some way.

[rayc]

Neck coil tapped
Bridge coil tapped
Both coil tapped
TAF Carol Anne.mp3

david - sounds really cool. I like the above best - but mostly because the Marshall profile wasn't terribly exciting even though your progression did sound good in and of itself.

[JD01]

I like the split neck and bridge humbucker on the Carol Anne. Really didn't like both pickups split or the bridge split.
Same on the Marshall clips actually, although when they're both split it sounds a little better. Both humbuckers is just too murky for me with that much gain.

Are these riffs from up and coming Armistice songs?

That reverb is a little weird on the Carol Anne, like its got a small amount of modulation on in.

[WhiskeyJack]

Ok here is the results of the Shure SM57 And the Frankenstiened Unidyne III 544 Shoot out. I used the cab grabber to ensure exact mic placement and measured the distance off the grill cloth to ensure maximum exaculatirty(?), in this case it is 2cm. You yanks can math the conversion if you feel so inclined.

LP Jr Bridge P90 > AD30 > V30

Master = 5
treble = 7
Mid = 7
bass = 6
gain = 5

Again, the playing sucks, trying figuring out a song i have been meaning to learn for a few months now. Alot of warts. Unlikeyou guys my natural talent comes in the form "of i have none".



Shure SM57

20190405 57.mp3

Unidyne III 544

20190405 544.mp3

Unidyne Sounds pretty cool.

[muttley]

The Unidyne definitely sounds more "live". It will be interesting to see how it mixes down compared to the 57.

[Greg_L]

in this case it is 2cm. You yanks can math the conversion if you feel so inclined.

Slightly less than one inch.

Man that Unidyne sounds great! Much more clarity than the 57. It reminds me of how the i5 compares to a 57.

And that tone is really cool. That's a good setting IMO. Nice work!

[Lt. Bob]

The Unidyne definitely sounds more "live". It will be interesting to see how it mixes down compared to the 57.

I have a couple of those ... maybe I should dig them out

[WhiskeyJack]

Thanks dudes. I am pretty happy with it. I hear the biggest tonal differences in the palm muting bits. It paints a cool picture.

After i did that exercise i played around with my spark and the hantaun pedals a bit and got some cool sounds out of the orange. Didnt grab them though but will when i can.

I left all the settings on the amp the same but was able to roll the gain off back to 2. It was essentially the same tone just more "magnified" and maybe a bit more top end. It got spanky and slightly percussive. The mids cut through a bit more focused. It was cool. I dont think the hantauns gain knob even left 0. Ill grab some tones as soon as i can. Got a full house today.

[mention]Lt. Bob[/mention] you for sure should. They are cool little mics. I am going to start keeping my eyes peeled for more of these things. I hear the 545's are much closer in sound to a 57 than even the 544's were.

[Lt. Bob]

mine are 545's ..... I used to prefer them to 57s myself.

[JD01]

[mention]WhiskeyJack[/mention] mate, I like the tones. I definitely like the 544 more than the 57 when you're palm muting. Its smoother and seems to have a nice scoop to it in comparison to the 57.

[WhiskeyJack]

@WhiskeyJack mate, I like the tones. I definitely like the 544 more than the 57 when you're palm muting. Its smoother and seems to have a nice scoop to it in comparison to the 57.

Thanks JD. I think i prefer it all around. I was trying to find a way to describe it to someone last night and Mutt said it best. Lively. I find it is smoother and also has a breathy live feel to it while the 57 i find nasaly. I listened to it on my phone before bed last night and they sounded damn near identical except the palm muting.

I think the 57, 544 and e906 will make great combos for a good guitar track.

[JD01]

Yeah, if you're double tracking with one amp and one guitar, changing the mic out could be a good way to beef up your tracks.

[JD01]

a song

Not heard this before, mate. Its good.
Reminds me of something but I can't put my finger on it.

Its a bit like Chamberlain, a bit like The Get Up Kids... not quite though. Maybe I've actually heard it before and don't remember.

Good song!

[Greg_L]

I'm just mucking around, trying to acquaint the guitars I don't normally play with the Kemper. This is a straight out of the box (literally) Matchless profile with my Levinson "strat". Treble pick up. Everything flat on the profile. As an exercise to see if I can get recordable tones.

Matchless AV30 Strat tone.mp3

No doubt it's a bit rattly - I sort of got more interested in the riff, which I just made up, than the tone. Not sure what I'd do with it, and whether the second phrase "works", but still. It's Monday night, so it's a start.

Comments/suggestions on tone and/or riff appreciated. I know it's not, tonally, everyone's cup of tea.

Cheers

That one sounds like one of those electro-acoustics with a preamp plugged straight in via DI. Weird that you got that sound from a Strat and an amp profile.