The Tone Thread

[Greg_L]

All my favorite records are have one thing in common. The perfect marriage of a kick ass basstone with the kick and guitars. Ive never ever accomplished it and may actually be laregrly done in mastering but the point is a good bassist and bass tone is glue for a good record. They need the tone to hold up the guitarists and they need to lock in on the drummers kick. Or be Les Claypool. If one or god forbid both elements arent there a song just goes to shit. Ive never been hard on bassists, yea sure they are their own oddball breed. But a 'good' bassist is the glue that binds the guitars and drums of any act together.

Anyone will have a hard time changing my mind on that one.

I'm with ya there. If the bass and drums aint right, the whole thing falls apart. When I was a kid I bought this bootleg Ramones video from a record convention. It was a live show in Houston from 1977 and the sound wasn't great. There was this really percussive thumping to the drums. It almost sounded like a double bass drum kit, but obviously it wasn't. It wasn't the drums at all. It was Dee Dee's bass. He played in perfect unison with everything the drums were doing and his crazy playing style made a lot of thump noise with the actual notes. The attack of the bass with the drums was so tight it sounded like the drums were just exploding...but all in perfect time. For every kick, snare, hi hat, or cymbal crash beat, no matter when, where or how fast, there was a bass note plopped perfectly on top of it. That kind of simple assault done with precision made a huge impression on me in my formative years. To this day when I'm drumming I demand a bass player be locked in with me. They can go explore their own shit, but you better land on the beats with me. That's how I want it.

Greg,
Excellent clips. I lean towards the P sample though. More of everything to me ears.
I've not tinkered with my pickups since about 1975.

Thanks Ray. The P does have a much fatter and growlier sound to it. I'm gonna try to get some sounds from an actual bass rig this weekend.

[JD01]

Cranking bass tones. My favourite one is the blend.
Has a bit more balls than the J on its own, and while I like the P on its own some of them low notes sound a bit rumbley. I think the P/J is good balance between the two.

[Greg_L]

Cranking bass tones. My favourite one is the blend.
Has a bit more balls than the J on its own, and while I like the P on its own some of them low notes sound a bit rumbley. I think the P/J is good balance between the two.

Thanks. Yeah the pickup options might be useful. The blend aint bad. I like the forced simplicity of just the P setup though. My ears still lean towards the P pickups, but I've also only used P Basses for my whole life.

[JD01]

Cranking bass tones. My favourite one is the blend.
Has a bit more balls than the J on its own, and while I like the P on its own some of them low notes sound a bit rumbley. I think the P/J is good balance between the two.

Thanks. Yeah the pickup options might be useful. The blend aint bad. I like the forced simplicity of just the P setup though. My ears still lean towards the P pickups, but I've also only used P Basses for my whole life.

I like the sound of the P. I can just see it being a pain in the arse for me to mix! It's exactly what I'd struggle with if I had chuggy powerchords with it.

Sounds great though, would sound killer on one of your tunes.

I've just got two J Pickups and I leave them both on full.

[Minerman]

Bass tone? Sure why not....

This is my new Fender P/J Special Deluxe thing
Marshall JVM410 - Clean Channel Orange Mode
All tone controls - 5
Gain - 5
Channel Vol - 3
Master Vol - 3
Marshall 1960B 4x12 - Celestion G12H30
MXL R144 dead center, 1" off grill
No EQ or FX in DAW

For some reason it slipped my mind you used one of your guitar amps for this man...
I get decent with bass tones using ampsims, but there's a lot of knob twiddling/tweaking to get there, so I'm gonna give this a shot...

[Greg_L]

For some reason it slipped my mind you used one of your guitar amps for this man...
I get decent with bass tones using ampsims, but there's a lot of knob twiddling/tweaking to get there, so I'm gonna give this a shot...

Keep the volume low!

Recording bass through guitar speakers is one area where louder is not better.

[Minerman]

For some reason it slipped my mind you used one of your guitar amps for this man...
I get decent with bass tones using ampsims, but there's a lot of knob twiddling/tweaking to get there, so I'm gonna give this a shot...

Keep the volume low!

Recording bass through guitar speakers is one area where louder is not better.

Cool man, I took note of your amp settings & thought the clips you made weren't cranked like your guitars usually are...

[Greg_L]

This thing landed at camp Greg last night....





Not mine.....but it is the one I've been ranting and raving about for years. The Friedman BE-100.

I'm gonna get some tones from this thing this week. I probably (definitely) will not do it justice, but it's a cool amp.

[liv_rong]

This thing landed at camp Greg last night....

That is awesome!

[Minerman]

This thing landed at camp Greg last night....
Not mine.....but it is the one I've been ranting and raving about for years. The Friedman BE-100.

I'm gonna get some tones from this thing this week. I probably (definitely) will not do it justice, but it's a cool amp.

Wow man, I've read about Friedman amps since I started this tone quest, but that's probably as close as I'll ever get to one...The prices make 'em pretty much un-obtainable items for me, but that's ok, I've still got my Chupacabra...

Throw us some clips up dude, those are supposed to be really bad-ass...

[Greg_L]

Throw us some clips up dude, those are supposed to be really bad-ass...

They are bad ass. I don't think I have the skills to get the most out of an amp like this, but we'll see. It's a hard rock amp.

[JD01]

I remember a couple of years ago the afro bloke from Andertons was playing in the Friedman room and NAMM and he said they were the best tones he'd ever played... even though he's a Victory endorsee and Andertons didn't stock them at the time.

[Greg_L]

I remember a couple of years ago the afro bloke from Andertons was playing in the Friedman room and NAMM and he said they were the best tones he'd ever played... even though he's a Victory endorsee and Andertons didn't stock them at the time.

For anyone that's a fan of hot-rodded rock and roll Marshall tones....the Friedman BEs are probably the best commercially produced option for that sound. They're not really "vintage" sounding, and they're not really modern metal amps. They are just "hot" Marshalls. I personally don't even really like high gain tones, but the Friedmans are pretty bad ass.

[Minerman]

For anyone that's a fan of hot-rodded rock and roll Marshall tones....the Friedman BEs are probably the best commercially produced option for that sound. They're not really "vintage" sounding, and they're not really modern metal amps. They are just "hot" Marshalls. I personally don't even really like high gain tones, but the Friedmans are pretty bad ass.

Can you describe the difference between the Friedman amps & my Chupacabra dude??? I know you probably haven't had a lot of time with either, but you're very modest with your skills Greg...
You're not fooling me, so I ain't buying the "I don't have the skills to get the goods out of this thing" bit dude...

[Greg_L]

Can you describe the difference between the Friedman amps & my Chupacabra dude??? I know you probably haven't had a lot of time with either, but you're very modest with your skills Greg...
You're not fooling me, so I ain't buying the "I don't have the skills to get the goods out of this thing" bit dude...

Lol. Well first off the Friedman lineup does different things. This one is a BE (Brown Eye) and that means it's, to my ears, more like a juiced up 2203/2204. It has a smooth thickness to it like a JCM 800 with a lot of gain. Your Chupacabra is more like a modded Plexi. The Chupa has more of that squishy crunchy "brown sound" grind like a Plexi on steroids.

[Minerman]

Lol.

You can downplay it all you want, & it's cool you're humble about all this, but you're very good at this shit Greg, period...
Say what you wanna, but I know the truth...

Well first off the Friedman lineup does different things. This one is a BE (Brown Eye) and that means it's, to my ears, more like a juiced up 2203/2204. It has a smooth thickness to it like a JCM 800 with a lot of gain. Your Chupacabra is more like a modded Plexi. The Chupa has more of that squishy crunchy "brown sound" grind like a Plexi on steroids.

Ok, I kinda get that man, the Chupa has more of a "spongy soft edge" thing, & feels "squishy" when it's juiced up...

The BE will be a bit more "stiff" feeling, but in a good way, & it doesn't have the "spongy soft edge" thing going on, it'd be more cutting/aggressive, kinda like my Mini Jubilee feels, but with more gain...

[Greg_L]

Ok, I kinda get that man, the Chupa has more of a "spongy soft edge" thing, & feels "squishy" when it's juiced up...

The BE will be a bit more "stiff" feeling, but in a good way, & it doesn't have the "spongy soft edge" thing going on, it'd be more cutting/aggressive, kinda like my Mini Jubilee feels, but with more gain...

I think the BE is smoother than a Jubilee. Jubilees always have a sort of harshness to my ears. The Friedman definitely doesn't have that. It has a lot of gain but nothing is out of balance. It's a very well done design....and it better be for $4k or whatever these things cost.

[Minerman]

I think the BE is smoother than a Jubilee. Jubilees always have a sort of harshness to my ears. The Friedman definitely doesn't have that. It has a lot of gain but nothing is out of balance. It's a very well done design....

I kinda get it dude, the Mini Jubilee can be harsh because the eq is so effective, it's easy to dial it in where it sounds harsh...Just a little wiggle on the knob does a lot...Except for the mids, I mean it changes a little as you turn it up/down, but it becomes really apparent from about "6" & up...

and it better be for $4k or whatever these things cost.

Yeah man, it's crazy how much these amps cost...I never thought I'd have a $1200 amp & now I have 2 of 'em, maybe 3 before long, but $4k is a big jump from that...

I will say I'd been looking hard at one of the Friedman lunchbox amps, but since the new Mini Marshall amps have arrived I've lost interest in 'em...I'm sure they're great amps, but I just like EL34's a lot better...

[WhiskeyJack]

Dang!!! I look forward to hearing how you tickle that. Those are sassy little rigs.

[Greg_L]

I will say I'd been looking hard at one of the Friedman lunchbox amps, but since the new Mini Marshall amps have arrived I've lost interest in 'em...I'm sure they're great amps, but I just like EL34's a lot better...

The thing is...the way I see it, those EL34 amps that are way way underpowered basically just end up being like 6V6 or EL84 amps. An EL34 is designated to dissipate 25w per tube. Starving an EL34 kind of defeats the purpose of having an EL34. If the general idea of little watt amps is "driving the power tubes", then you're not even tickling an EL34 if they're only making 10w per tube. I think those smaller amps would be better off using tubes that are actually designed to make the low wattage those amps are trying to deliver. If you want to drive power tubes, then I think they should use power tubes that can be driven near their limit. EL84s and 6V6s are perfect for hard driving little amps. Maybe amp makers have found a way to trick an EL34 into thinking it's running full-tilt at lower wattage. I really don't know.

I think the little Friedmans use EL84s, and honestly they all sound pretty bad ass. All of them. I don't think there's a bad sounding Friedman amp out there if you're into rock and roll tones. I've played through pretty much all of them - The Runt, Dirty Shirley, Pink Taco, they all sound killer.