The Tone Thread

[JD01]

Unfortunately, no. My musical tastes (even the stuff I write) range too far and wide. Quite a bit of acoustic-type stuff (way more classical than bluegrass, though), some jazz, lots of rock/pop fill my head. So I want to learn how to do it *all*. One part at a time, I guess. Just like learning how to play an instrument...the studio itself becomes the "instrument", and just like you have to learn how to break down the techniques of the right way to hold a pick or a drumstick, you also have to learn the techniques of acoustics management, and mic placements, and amp settings, etc.

You must have a rough idea of what you're trying to get to with your electric guitar tone? Just think of a couple of tunes that have a guitar tone you like that you think might work in your music.

[Greg_L]

A single "base tone"? srs? You're asking me to prioritize and make a decision? [/s]

Unfortunately, no. My musical tastes (even the stuff I write) range too far and wide. Quite a bit of acoustic-type stuff (way more classical than bluegrass, though), some jazz, lots of rock/pop fill my head. So I want to learn how to do it *all*. One part at a time, I guess. Just like learning how to play an instrument...the studio itself becomes the "instrument", and just like you have to learn how to break down the techniques of the right way to hold a pick or a drumstick, you also have to learn the techniques of acoustics management, and mic placements, and amp settings, etc.

All that is true, but you can't master it all without starting with one thing.

That one thing, as far as capturing guitar tones goes, is getting it right at the source. That brings you back to you and your amp. You have to be able to play what you want to play, and you have to be able to dial in an appropriate sound before putting a mic anywhere. You can't fix it later. Get it right at the source and the rest is fairly easy.

That appropriate sound is what I was asking about. You need to know how to get the sound you want from the gear you have. Can you do that with your current guitars and amps?

[WhiskeyJack]

Having never been much of a fan of FX outside of some verb and delay I'm just going to go ahead and admit i don't know a good flange from a bad flange. I can't say i have any value added commentary.

[SweetDan]

...you and your amp...Get it right at the source and the rest is fairly easy...You need to know how to get the sound you want from the gear you have. Can you do that with your current guitars and amps?

Agreed. I'd answer "yes", that most of the time I can get the sound I want...in the room. What's tricky/challenging/etc. for me is to translate that sound to a recorded format.

http://eastofcleveland.com/m/guitarTone ... odel_1.mp3
http://eastofcleveland.com/m/guitarTone ... Louder.mp3

The origin of these clips was that I got (what sounded like to me) a better sound *in the room* by running a compressor between the guitar and the amp, and not really using the compressor to "compress", but to boost the signal w/the compressor's make-up gain. In theory, and for a "real" amp, driving a harder signal into a preamp which is not already driving too hard can produce some nice-sounding distortion. Given my gear and set-up, I just want to double-check I'm not headed off in the wrong direction with this, and that if I am headed in the right direction, but not quite there yet, what are the variables I'm missing? (One of which could be using crap gear...)

But back to your question, I can get the sound I want from the gear I have. I hope I'm not crazy in thinking so.

(EDIT) And for everybody who's provided feedback so far, thanks. You've given me some good ideas of things to try to keep improving.

[Greg_L]

Agreed. I'd answer "yes", that most of the time I can get the sound I want...in the room. What's tricky/challenging/etc. for me is to translate that sound to a recorded format.

http://eastofcleveland.com/m/guitarTone ... odel_1.mp3
http://eastofcleveland.com/m/guitarTone ... Louder.mp3

The origin of these clips was that I got (what sounded like to me) a better sound *in the room* by running a compressor between the guitar and the amp, and not really using the compressor to "compress", but to boost the signal w/the compressor's make-up gain. In theory, and for a "real" amp, driving a harder signal into a preamp which is not already driving too hard can produce some nice-sounding distortion. Given my gear and set-up, I just want to double-check I'm not headed off in the wrong direction with this, and that if I am headed in the right direction, but not quite there yet, what are the variables I'm missing? (One of which could be using crap gear...)

But back to your question, I can get the sound I want from the gear I have. I hope I'm not crazy in thinking so.

(EDIT) And for everybody who's provided feedback so far, thanks.

Okay, so good. You can get a sound you like from the gear you have. Great. If a compressor helps you get the sound you want, then you're definitely not headed in the wrong direction.

So you like the tone you get from the amp in the room. Are you not yet happy with how you're capturing it in the mics?

[SweetDan]

So you like the tone you get from the amp in the room. Are you not yet happy with how you're capturing it in the mics?

Exactly. (!)

[Greg_L]

So you like the tone you get from the amp in the room. Are you not yet happy with how you're capturing it in the mics?

Exactly. (!)

Okay cool. No problem.

So to start with, what you hear in the room is not what a mic hears near the grill. Your ears are picking up the amp and the room in the room. A close mic is just getting blasted by amp mostly.

So which sound do you wanna focus on first? It's my belief that you should be able to get good recorded sound with one mic close to the amp. If you can't do that most basic task, then adding more mics and room mics will just fuck things up worse.

So first off, the center of a speaker is bright and thin. The edge is dark and woofy. The beauty is somewhere in between. That's up to you. A good starting point is the dustcap/cone seam. Go to the edge to darken it up, go to the center to brighten it up. So that's left and right across a speaker.

You also have to and fro. In and out. Close and far. Closer is obviously more direct and negates any room influence. The farther away from the grill you get, the more room sound can creep in and sort of start to muffle it up.

So you have a balancing act to perform. Center or edge of speaker for bright and dark, close or away for direct or more roomy. You can tame a bright mic placement by moving it away from the cab. You smooth out a direct close placement by moving closer to the edge. It's a game you must play to get it right.

[JD01]

OK, so while we're talking about Flangers. This is me fishtanking my face off.

I'm in my weekday apartment so I'm playing into a clean sim with my Dry Martini overdrive. But check this flanging madness - its not even going really extreme!

[Greg_L]

Lol that's ghastly.

[JD01]

Lol that's ghastly.

I know totally fucked isn't it! And now I'm phasing my flange off too! Here's a bit of the base tone too, which is actually pretty decent with the Dry Martini.

If you ever see a Danelectro Fab Flange, buy it and destroy it. Eliminate it from the noise pool.

[Greg_L]

I know totally fucked isn't it! And now I'm phasing my flange off too! Here's a bit of the base tone too, which is actually pretty decent with the Dry Martini.

If you ever see a Danelectro Fab Flange, buy it and destroy it. Eliminate it from the noise pool.

I already knew those cheapo Danelectro pedals are crap. You're preaching to the choir.

[JD01]

I know totally fucked isn't it! And now I'm phasing my flange off too! Here's a bit of the base tone too, which is actually pretty decent with the Dry Martini.

If you ever see a Danelectro Fab Flange, buy it and destroy it. Eliminate it from the noise pool.

I already knew those cheapo Danelectro pedals are crap. You're preaching to the choir.

Yeah, they are. I was just playing it into a tuner - it was doing a huge amount of pitch shifting - more than 1/2 a semitone - I think that's quite a lot even for a flanger.

[Greg_L]

Here's a quickie I just did, like just now....base tone vs flanger vs phaser

Gibson Angus SG - Angus sig bridge pickup
Boss BF-3 Flanger
MXR Phase 90 Phaser
Marshall JCM 800 2203
Presence - 3.5
Bass - 7
Mid - 6
Treb - 4
Preamp vol - 7
Master vol - 6
Marshall 1960A 4x12 - Celestion G12-65
Senn e609 on axis, 2" off grill, halfway to edge
No EQ or FX in DAW

Base tone vs flanger vs phaser

First is amp only, second is flanger, third is phaser.

[JD01]

Here's a quickie I just did, like just now....base tone vs flanger vs phaser

Gibson Angus SG - Angus sig bridge pickup
Boss BF-3 Flanger
MXR Phase 90 Phaser
Marshall JCM 800 2203
Presence - 3.5
Bass - 7
Mid - 6
Treb - 4
Preamp vol - 7
Master vol - 6
Marshall 1960A 4x12 - Celestion G12-65
Senn e609 on axis, 2" off grill, halfway to edge
No EQ or FX in DAW

Base tone vs flanger vs phaser

First is amp only, second is flanger, third is phaser.

Cool! That is a nice flanger, and it is pretty similar to the phaser actually. My flanger and phaser are totally different. In your clips I think I do slightly prefer the flanger, like you said before - it sits in with the base tone better. I probably will get a better flanger at some point - that's way down the list though.

I've been playing with my phaser a lot this evening actually (after I turned that fucking flanger off) and I'm really enjoying it, gonna take it back home with me.

[Greg_L]

Cool! That is a nice flanger, and it is pretty similar to the phaser actually. My flanger and phaser are totally different. In your clips I think I do slightly prefer the flanger, like you said before - it sits in with the base tone better. I probably will get a better flanger at some point - that's way down the list though.

I've been playing with my phaser a lot this evening actually (after I turned that fucking flanger off) and I'm really enjoying it, gonna take it back home with me.

Right, the flanger is a bit more mellow even though it's plenty noticeable. The phaser has a more present bite to it.

I use the phaser on one song live. The other guitar player and me do this octave thing, he plays high, I play low, and to make mine pop I kick on the phaser. It sounds cool to me...but I really only hear myself anyway.

[JD01]

Cool! That is a nice flanger, and it is pretty similar to the phaser actually. My flanger and phaser are totally different. In your clips I think I do slightly prefer the flanger, like you said before - it sits in with the base tone better. I probably will get a better flanger at some point - that's way down the list though.

I've been playing with my phaser a lot this evening actually (after I turned that fucking flanger off) and I'm really enjoying it, gonna take it back home with me.

Right, the flanger is a bit more mellow even though it's plenty noticeable. The phaser has a more present bite to it.

I use the phaser on one song live. The other guitar player and me do this octave thing, he plays high, I play low, and to make mine pop I kick on the phaser. It sounds cool to me...but I really only hear myself anyway.

Lol, suppose you're standing in front of a JCM set to kill aren't you.

[Greg_L]

Lol, suppose you're standing in front of a JCM set to kill aren't you.

Not always. Sometimes it's the JMP. Sometimes the Plexis. They're all fucking loud as hell.

[JD01]

Lol, suppose you're standing in front of a JCM set to kill aren't you.

Not always. Sometimes it's the JMP. Sometimes the Plexis. They're all fucking loud as hell.

Speaking of Marshall. I heard a demo of one the other day that I thought might suit me! Joe Bonawhatshisname playing through a modified 1W JTM 45. I like the sound of the big Marshalls cranked but the ones that would be useful to me at home sound shit, this little thing sounded great though.

[Greg_L]

Speaking of Marshall. I heard a demo of one the other day that I thought might suit me! Joe Bonawhatshisname playing through a modified 1W JTM 45. I like the sound of the big Marshalls cranked but the ones that would be useful to me at home sound shit, this little thing sounded great though.

A few years ago Marshall made a bunch of one watt versions of their best big models.

The JCM-1 was actually really good. I wasn't crazy about the rest of them.

If you want classic Marshall cranked tone in a small package, look for a Marshall Class 5. It's a 5-watter that has like two knobs and needs to be turned up. They actually sound good through a big cab and they take pedals really well.

[rayc]

Jon says yes. I don't know. What do you reckon?[BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1QHo7-9O58[/BBvideo]