Stacking vox: Tune them? Yea or nay?

[vomitHatSteve]

So I was referred to this video of popular youtube songcrafters Pomplamoose.

Towards the end, they start stacking up a lot of vocals. (2:25)
This is one of those acts that is willing to use any and all "cheats" and shortcuts to achieve their desired effect, and I labor under the assumption that their vocals are usually tuned to heck and back.

The question is, do they tune large stacks of vocals like that? It seems like it would be a lot of work for little return. And stacking a lot of takes of a vocal usually smooths out the burrs anyway. But their arrangement seems almost vocoder-esque in its accuracy.
Do you think they do tune them? Does anyone else tune stacks of vox?

[JD01]

I think tuned stacks of vox sound awful.

The most I've stacked is 6 or 8 I think and I had one tuned take of each part, copied and pasted the tuning and used it as a guide to help me get the parts right. But when they're right the tuning comes off, it sounds shite otherwise.

[Greg_L]

I'm of the opinion that if you do decent takes then stacking vocals takes care of itself.

[rayc]

It's the slight variation that makes it wok.

[paulman]

I would agree with everyone here. You want the slight variations, that's part of the point of stacking in the first place. But if the variations are more than slight and you can't retrack (when working with other singers), then maybe you have to tune.

On a related but slightly separate subject, when I first started seriously recording, I read somewhere that when mixing vocal harmonies you should just always use pitch correction by default. That not doing so would present more problems than it's worth. I bought into that philosophy at first, but every time I did an A/B comparison, it always sounded better without pitch correction. Of course this assumes that whoever you're recording can sing. :-)

[vomitHatSteve]

Yeah, I've never bothered to tune stacked vox. (Seems like it'd be really tedious!)

I'm working on a song with 10-part harmonies. Maybe I'll try tuning them to see how it sounds.

[Bubba]

If you use the rule of thumb of NEVER, EVER, TUNE ANY FUCKING VOCAL TRACK, then you'll be all right and we can still be friends.

[Greg_L]

I did a Beach Boys cover a long time ago with a ton of vocal tracks because, well, it's the Beach Boys. I can't sing for shit but I think it came out okay.

[WhiskeyJack]

I did a Beach Boys cover a long time ago with a ton of vocal tracks because, well, it's the Beach Boys. I can't sing for shit but I think it came out okay.

link pls.

[WhiskeyJack]

But their arrangement seems almost vocoder-esque in its accuracy.
Do you think they do tune them? Does anyone else tune stacks of vox?

Vocoder esque yes. i hear it. I would say they definitely do tune them. I have heard amazing singers before and they didn't get that affect but still remained incredibly polished.

Yeah, I've never bothered to tune stacked vox. (Seems like it'd be really tedious!)

I'm working on a song with 10-part harmonies. Maybe I'll try tuning them to see how it sounds.

Jesus man. I have been messing around for a week just trying to to find a cohesive 2 part harmony. So are all 10 parts in different keys or whatever? or is it like a few tracks of the same key or what?

I think what i am doing currently for the thing i am working on might be considered stacking? I don't know that i am going to tune them. I sort of want subtle human error in there. not necessarily out of tune to the point that someone is gonna be like HOLY SHIT DUDE! but if there is a slight subtle pitchyness on the trail outs or whatever or they don't stop trailing out at the exact same milli second i can live with that.

[Greg_L]

link pls.

I'll dig it up and send it to you.

[JD01]

You can sing pretty decent, Greg.

Stacking vox is actually quite good fun with ReaTune. Seeing how close you can get your takes to the lines.

[Greg_L]

I don't remember too many details besides it taking A LOT of takes to even come close to what the Beach Boys do. I remember finding an acapella version somewhere and just trying to copy all the parts of that.

[JD01]

Did you use ReaTune and/or make guide tracks with a guitar or something like that?

[Greg_L]

Did you use ReaTune and/or make guide tracks with a guitar or something like that?

I don't even really know what reatune is. I do remember using a guitar to pick out the different vocal lines to help me find the notes. And my own very rudimentary knowledge of major/minor scales and harmonies helped too. I'm usually okay with doing harmonies for my own stuff but Beach Boys is a whole 'nother level. There are so many layers I had to focus in on one guy singing one thing, figure it out, and track just that guy's stuff all the way through. Then I'd move on to another harmony and tackle it the same way. It was like four part harmony kind of stuff. Way above my pay grade. It wasn't that difficult once I new where the tones were and what I was going to be singing. Peeling back all the layers took some work though. A lot of work for a fucking cover.

[JD01]

Did you use ReaTune and/or make guide tracks with a guitar or something like that?

I don't even really know what reatune is. I do remember using a guitar to pick out the different vocal lines to help me find the notes. And my own very rudimentary knowledge of major/minor scales and harmonies helped too. I'm usually okay with doing harmonies for my own stuff but Beach Boys is a whole 'nother level. There are so many layers I had to focus in on one guy singing one thing, figure it out, and track just that guy's stuff all the way through. Then I'd move on to another harmony and tackle it the same way. It was like four part harmony kind of stuff. Way above my pay grade. It wasn't that difficult once I new where the tones were and what I was going to be singing. Peeling back all the layers took some work though. A lot of work for a fucking cover.

I find that one of the hardest things to work out is vocal harmony parts. I also find it really hard to sing a harmony part along with the lead accurately.

What I tend to do is sing it along with the lead part as a scratch take. Add ReaTune to the scratch take, which is generally awful. Then mute the lead take and record the harmony part just singing along with the tuned harmony.

[Greg_L]

I find that one of the hardest things to work out is vocal harmony parts. I also find it really hard to sing a harmony part along with the lead accurately.

What I tend to do is sing it along with the lead part as a scratch take. Add ReaTune to the scratch take, which is generally awful. Then mute the lead take and record the harmony part just singing along with the tuned harmony.

I've spent my whole life listening to music with a lot of harmony vocals in it. Especially with 50s/60s oldies, I find myself humming along with the harmony lines more often than the main vocals. I like a lot of stuff with a lot of oooohs and ahhhhs in it. Coming up with harmony lines comes pretty naturally for me. Performing them is tough, but coming up with what to do is pretty easy. I often create harmony lines that are great in my head but just impossible to pull off so they never see the light of day and I end up with something really basic.

[JD01]

I often create harmony lines that are great in my head but just impossible to pull off so they never see the light of day and I end up with something really basic.

I know its probably anathema to you, but you might find the ReaTune trick quite handy.
It just shows you your wobbly all over the place pitch so you can easily see all of your fuck ups... and you can turn those fuck ups into perfectly straight, slightly robotic sounding lines that are bang on pitch.

Then copy and paste the ReaTune VST to the track that you're gonna do your takes on and work on it until you're pretty much on the lines, then just turn ReaTune off and it'll sound good and natural.

[Greg_L]

I know its probably anathema to you, but you might find the ReaTune trick quite handy.
It just shows you your wobbly all over the place pitch so you can easily see all of your fuck ups... and you can turn those fuck ups into perfectly straight, slightly robotic sounding lines that are bang on pitch.

Then copy and paste the ReaTune VST to the track that you're gonna do your takes on and work on it until you're pretty much on the lines, then just turn ReaTune off and it'll sound good and natural.

Lol. No, I can hear when it's real bad and I just redo it. A little wobble or imperfection doesn't bother me. I'm not singing opera over here.

[WhiskeyJack]

Lol. No, I can hear when it's real bad and I just redo it.

Same here. My harmonies are usually two takes each. and sitting them ontop of each other during playback is a good indicator of intune-ness. I'll do two of one key / arrangement, then two more of the other and then just blend them up and sit them next to the main vox. they are either going to work or they are not going to work. Currently what i have in my head for that stupid cover song for one part isn't coming out the way i want it and i am one day away from scrapping it and just pulling the pin on it.

Now that i say it out loud sounds dumb coming from me cause i'll will likely never again double up a guitar performance but i double up on layers of background vocals that typically get semi buried in a mix. Weird.