BIAB SongS - A place to demonstrate the good and the bad of BIAB

[rayc]

CeeBee,
here's a link to the vocal file.
All I did was some manual de-essing, a little pre FX level automation and some compression to even out the levels a bit more.
Download link
https://we.tl/t-4EX9ChrJje
I didn't try to deal with any other noise etc as I wasn't sure what was bleed and what was a problem. I think those noises aren't an issue in the mix anyway.

[CeeBee]

[mention]rayc[/mention] Thanks a lot for working the vocal track, I really appreciate it as my ears are not up to fine tuning. To my old ears It lacked a little body so I included the original vocals at low volume and some compression, which beefed it up a bit. I'm assuming one can't hear the sibilance at that level any more, but I couldn't hear it before anyway
I removed another guitar which opens it up more.

Let me know short new voc1 3.mp3

[rayc]

Sounds good CeeBee. It ought not have sounded thinner from the processing - it was manual level reduction using the pre FX automation system at the sibilant points and then compression to even the other volume peaks.
It matters not - the new mix sounds cool and there's no much in the way of sib.s except at 3.17.
Lovely vocal. The reverb does accentuate the issues on the track

[rayc]

Hello Folk,
I've long wanted to do a cover of my favourite Leonard Cohen song. A couple of weeks ago I decided to do it as a fill in/water treading exercise.
I built the song in BIAB and have replaced almost all of the building material whilst adding more from BIAB an elsewhere.
This track had BIAB drums, cello, fiddles, classical guitar & a pair of string ensembles, (blended together).
I've added clean electric 12 string, slightly dirty El 12 string, classical guitars, bass, picked 12 string, heavily distorted guitars and some Mel9 stuff to reinforce the BIAB stringy things.
It varies quite a bit in the layers & dynamics but I was keen to make it similar to LC's original in some spots as well as very different elsewhere. The original has two classical guitars and various strings plus HIS voice.
I'll have to work on the voice part -I've done a scratch vocal and it seems to fit my range but I need to improve my aim as well as hit the target.
A work in progress so you can tear at it all you care to.

JOAGbgd.mp3

[WhiskeyJack]

I think the strings sound really really good Ray. notably around the 2:30 and on mark. It sounds super cool I think it'll be a good one once you are done. I think the heavy distorted dirty guitars could be could be better. they sound sizzly fizzy. Or like a distortion pedal right into an interface.

Overall the whole think is pretty shrouded with a big blanket to me? IS that by way of the BIAB thing?

Look forward to seeing this progress. What is the song by the way. It's quite nice and i am not at all over familiar with LC that much but i would like to hear the original.

[Greg_L]

The drums got murdered. Are they supposed to be like that? Is that a mixing/stylistic choice? All those layers are crashing into each other. The distorted guitar is definitely a fizz bomb. WJ is right, it sounds like a distortion pedal going direct.

But it's the early stages, right? Lots of time to clean it up.

[WhiskeyJack]

The drums got murdered. Are they supposed to be like that? Is that a mixing/stylistic choice? All those layers are crashing into each other.

It's not my place to chime in as i have never used this BIAB thing but speaking as a "fan" of rays and a listener around here, i notice that a lot on a bunch of rays early versions of anything he uses those drums for. As well when i went looking into the software myself a lot of samples and "finished" songs i heard all have that that muffled one dimension pudding kind of mix on the drums. I want to think that ray doesn't go out of his way to make his drum beds sound like that i think that may very well just be be how they come out. Definitely stand to be corrected.

[rayc]

[mention]Greg_L[/mention] , [mention]WhiskeyJack[/mention] I still haven't made up my mind about the drums - there's no rhythm section in the original. BIAB drums are a simple stereo file and almost always have too much cymbal action and not enough bottom end. Throwing reverb on them is quite problematic but I want a HUGE sound in part. I had a kit in the earlier version that was way too splashy and have spent time trying to tame that and opted to replace it yesterday so the above version is in flux.
The original of the song is propelled by the dual acoustic guitars - a relentless drone & pulse.
Heavy guitars are draft - I haven't had an empty house to allow me to crank an amp so those are pan amp in a pedal & Greg's cab impulses fill ins.
I'm working on it - bit by bit. Should have a noise opportunity tomorrow.

[rayc]

[mention]Greg_L[/mention] & [mention]WhiskeyJack[/mention] ,
I've tracked new classical guitars,(plus blended in one of the BIAB ones), new LOUD guitars, altered the rhythm section's levels and included my guide/learning how vocal to fill in that section of the freq spectrum that was deliberately hollow.

JOANJgd.mp3

Thoughts?

[WhiskeyJack]

I shall test drive my new work ear buds for you here ray. A pair of newer iPhone earbuds that we seeming have a stockpile of in a box in the store room here at work. Who knew!!! DIBS!! Compared to my old ones (over priced airport skull candy buds) they sound much more full and clear. But still just ear buds.

Um [mention]rayc[/mention] there clarity of the all the pieces when A/B'd are night and day. JOANJgd is the stronger of the two. The strings seem to have lost a little bit of spatial ambiance and a bit of presence but perhaps that may be part and parcel to the great reduction on the drums within Biab? The loud guitars much improved. The vocals are a little woolly for my liking. But that honestly could be me adjusting to the new ear buds. I can double check on my monitors after work. The talking bit at the end seems to come in and out of the mix.

0:38 a pop or a plosive of some sort?

[Greg_L]

@Greg_L & @WhiskeyJack ,
I've tracked new classical guitars,(plus blended in one of the BIAB ones), new LOUD guitars, altered the rhythm section's levels and included my guide/learning how vocal to fill in that section of the freq spectrum that was deliberately hollow.
JOANJgd.mp3
Thoughts?

The bed track sounds way better. The guitars are better. What's your plan for vocals?

[rayc]

[mention]WhiskeyJack[/mention] , [mention]Greg_L[/mention] ,
Ta, the cymbals are taking up some string space but I'll work on restoring a little more of the lushness.
The vocals are just a guide and to fill in that sonic space. As you can hear I can't sing. Ideally someone will pop up & say they'd have a crack at it but being a Leonard Cohen track and from about 75 I'm not hopeful.
There's a bar in which the BIAB drummer plays a ridiculous fill - un panned - I'll have to edit that but I wanted to demonstrate that I'd read and applied your comments.
Thanks chaps.

[WhiskeyJack]

@WhiskeyJack , @Greg_L ,
Ta, the cymbals are taking up some string space but I'll work on restoring a little more of the lushness.
The vocals are just a guide and to fill in that sonic space. As you can hear I can't sing. Ideally someone will pop up & say they'd have a crack at it but being a Leonard Cohen track and from about 75 I'm not hopeful.
There's a bar in which the BIAB drummer plays a ridiculous fill - un panned - I'll have to edit that but I wanted to demonstrate that I'd read and applied your comments.
Thanks chaps.

Whats the name of the song ray? Can i have a listen? if my sleuthing is correct i want to say it is Joan Of Arc?

[CeeBee]

It is taking on great form, I like the way your tracks develop.
Can you post the track minus the vocals, I'd like to see if I could do it.

[rayc]

Whats the name of the song ray? Can i have a listen? if my sleuthing is correct i want to say it is Joan Of Arc?

You're correct Shan,
[BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPf5Ki9ygVY[/BBvideo]

[rayc]

It is taking on great form, I like the way your tracks develop.
Can you post the track minus the vocals, I'd like to see if I could do it.

Certainly,
any & all attempts welcome.
I'll render a vocal less version of the current mix for you in an hour or so.

[rayc]

Folder of Joan files
[mention]CeeBee[/mention] , [mention]WhiskeyJack[/mention] & [mention]Greg_L[/mention] ,
Here's a link to the backing, aversion with vocal, the chords, the lyrics and a video of the track ripped from the original album.
All welcome to add anything you care to.
Vocals - preferably 24bit, mono & FX free - but those are druthers.

[WhiskeyJack]

I may take a stab at it maybe. Wouldnt be till the weekend though.

Is there two layers of vocals on this or something?!

[rayc]

I may take a stab at it maybe. Wouldnt be till the weekend though.
Is there two layers of vocals on this or something?!

There are sections where Lenny talks over his own singing.

[rayc]

Here's an update with CeeBee's vocal added.

JOANCBskinnyDgd_r8b.mp3