The Tone Thread

[SweetDan]

(more)

[SweetDan]

Commentary:

To my ears, "seam, out, on-axis" is the best of round 2. (And I should throw out "seam, out, off-axis" - that's the dullest-sounding one of this bunch.) I still wish I had a bit more "zing" or crunch, but I don't think I can really get any more out of my equipment (or at least the particular modeled amp - "UK 70's") without bringing back lots of the harsh sound that was pointed out in round 1. (And I even still hear a bit of that harshness, though much less, in the "center" clips especially.)

I suppose I could try without the boost pedal, or I could try with different pedals (probably distortion pedals run into a clean modeled amp setting). I recently upgraded the speaker, and could try a different one too, but if I'm going to bother to do that + pedals, I might as well start looking at used, low-wattage tube amps (Peavey Classic, or Fender Hot Rod, etc.).

As always, I'm curious to hear what y'all have to say.

[Greg_L]

As always, I'm curious to hear what y'all have to say.

Fuuuuck, I saw all your clips and meant to give em a spin and forgot. Sorry. I'll get to it tomorrow.

[rayc]

SweetDan,
I like group 4 centre out off axis - don't know why - I just did.
Here's a vid bu a bearded hipster type BUT it was white noise going through a Jimi Hendrix Wah which I found interesting. I'd not seen, (as opposed to heard), the amount of tone suck a Wah does until today & the range of the Wah's filter sweep was interesting too. Oddly most of the vid of his throttling the Wah seemed to be the same tempo, range & beat.
[BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW9Yq99FeTU[/BBvideo]

[Greg_L]

As always, I'm curious to hear what y'all have to say.

Okay I've listened to all of your clips.

IMO it's very clear - the "seam" clips are the best ones. It doesn't matter if they're on or off axis, on the grill or pulled back a bit. All of the seam configurations have the best blend of body and bite. In my mind I can imagine them working in a mix with little to maybe no effort. The center clips are too bright/harsh, the edge clips too woofy.

Also, keep in mind of how sound leaves a speaker. The "seam" is a convenient reference point and it's a pretty important part of a speaker. You can mic just inside the seam, just outside the seam, whatever. The only spot of a speaker that doesn't really "make sound" is the exact dead center. When you're really close, a speaker pumps out sound kind of like a fan blows air. The blades of a fan do the work and the center just spins. A speaker kind of does the same thing....without the spinning. The cone vibrates and puts out the sound, the dead center doesn't really have much of value going on. But as you back away from a fan, the air comes together and you feel it. Same with a speaker. Behind the center of the dust cap is a hole in the construction. There's nothing back there. All of the work starts pretty much at the dustcap seam. That seam is where the voice coil and spider and all that shit starts the movement of the speaker. So, again, not much happening dead center. It moves, but it doesn't usually produce much good for our purposes. Center miking works good at a distance though because you're giving the sound waves space to come together, and sometimes that distance just happens to be the distance of the grill cloth, but not often. You usually have to give the mic more room if you want to mic dead center....and even then it can sound thin and harsh.

So, tl/dr summary, keep miking the seam area and keep close miking. I think you should make that your go-to reference point.

As far as the boost pedal goes, I don't know how beneficial it will be with a modeling amp. A boost is used with tube amps to drive and compress tubes harder - like adding nitrous to a car engine. It boosts and pumps up the drive of the tubes. Unless your modeling software is designed accept and properly implement the hotter guitar signal, I don't know if it's doing you any good. Might just be adding harshness.

[Greg_L]

Oh, one other thing about the dustcaps....

Some speakers have huge dustcaps, some have tiny dustcaps. The speakers with the huge dustcaps are generally much more forgiving with dead center miking.

[SweetDan]

Okay I've listened to all of your clips.

...

Thanks for listening, but even more, thanks for the explanation of how speaker construction and movement could be affecting things. I learned something today.

I had never even considered that the center of the cone has little to no movement. (BTW, this speaker is one with a giant dustcap.)

[Greg_L]

Okay I've listened to all of your clips.

...

Thanks for listening, but even more, thanks for the explanation of how speaker construction and movement could be affecting things. I learned something today.

I had never even considered that the center of the cone has little to no movement. (BTW, this speaker is one with a giant dustcap.)

The center position can be useful though - particularly if you mix in another mic.

[Minerman]

Thanks for listening, but even more, thanks for the explanation of how speaker construction and movement could be affecting things. I learned something today.

I had never even considered that the center of the cone has little to no movement. (BTW, this speaker is one with a giant dustcap.)

Dan there's nothing wrong with what you're doing right now, at all dude...But no matter who you are, & how much you know, you can never stop learning/improving...Take note when Greg gives you advice, he really knows what he's talking about, & you can learn a lot from him...

Obviously, there's gonna be a lot of trial/error, & it's highly subjective because everybody has different thoughts on what a "good" guitar tone is...

Greg ain't the only one either, there's a bunch of talented folks here who would never steer you in the wrong direction on this stuff...If you're looking to improve your guitar tones, IMHO, you're in the right place dude...

[SweetDan]

...there's a bunch of talented folks here who would never steer you in the wrong direction on this stuff...If you're looking to improve your guitar tones, IMHO, you're in the right place dude...

Agreed!

[Minerman]

I'll throw a tone or 2 up later, but wanna let you guys know I've been seriously abusing my Greenback in my ISO cab with the Chupa...I'm afraid to do this in "plexi" mode, afraid I'll fry my speaker (and possibly fuck my amp up in the process), but I can pretty much dime the Chupa (master on about 8 or 9) in "80's" mode, & it's even quieter in "Modern" mode...I have gotten the master up to about 7 or so in "plexi" mode, but I really don't wanna fuck anything up, so that's about as far as I'll push things...

So, the thing me & Greg have discussed about the Chupa being around 20-25w in the hot-rodded modes seems like that's about right, maybe even a bit less...The Greenback is a 25w speaker, & the Chupa is a 50w amp...The way I see it is if the amp were putting out the full 50w in the hot-rodded modes, I would've blown the speaker weeks ago...

I'd mentioned the 20w Mini Jubilee seems louder than the Chupa in the 2 hot-rodded modes, so I'm wondering how much the output really is being whacked...
It may be knocking it down even further since the 25w Greenback handles it...So far...

I'm not complaining at all though, the Chupa is still about the perfect loudness for me over here...With the ISO cab it's pretty damn great IMO, like a really loud tv in the room with the lids clamped shut...Obviously I can't use a 4x12 anytime I want, but using the Chupa > ISO cab, I can pretty much use 24/7...

[JD01]

Looking forward to hearing your Chupa sending your greenbacks into meltdown, mate.

[rayc]

Chuppa needs some 4x12 love occasionally.

[Greg_L]

I'll throw a tone or 2 up later, but wanna let you guys know I've been seriously abusing my Greenback in my ISO cab with the Chupa...I'm afraid to do this in "plexi" mode, afraid I'll fry my speaker (and possibly fuck my amp up in the process), but I can pretty much dime the Chupa (master on about 8 or 9) in "80's" mode, & it's even quieter in "Modern" mode...I have gotten the master up to about 7 or so in "plexi" mode, but I really don't wanna fuck anything up, so that's about as far as I'll push things...

So, the thing me & Greg have discussed about the Chupa being around 20-25w in the hot-rodded modes seems like that's about right, maybe even a bit less...The Greenback is a 25w speaker, & the Chupa is a 50w amp...The way I see it is if the amp were putting out the full 50w in the hot-rodded modes, I would've blown the speaker weeks ago...

I'd mentioned the 20w Mini Jubilee seems louder than the Chupa in the 2 hot-rodded modes, so I'm wondering how much the output really is being whacked...
It may be knocking it down even further since the 25w Greenback handles it...So far...

I'm not complaining at all though, the Chupa is still about the perfect loudness for me over here...With the ISO cab it's pretty damn great IMO, like a really loud tv in the room with the lids clamped shut...Obviously I can't use a 4x12 anytime I want, but using the Chupa > ISO cab, I can pretty much use 24/7...

Get an attenuator. Look for a 100w attenuator that suits your needs.

[Minerman]

Thanks dudes...I gotta say, this amp is way more versatile than I ever realized before...Sure, it'll do spandex-y cock-rock all day, but using the gain knobs to dial in different crunchy tones, this thing covers a lot of ground...You can even shape the brightness/darkness using the switches & gain knobs, pretty much without even touching the tonestack...This is a superb amp, all-around...

Get an attenuator. Look for a 100w attenuator that suits your needs.

I've been looking at some cheapies man...Maybe here in another month or so, maybe...

[Greg_L]

I've been looking at some cheapies man...Maybe here in another month or so, maybe...

If you use the master volume in conjunction with an attenuator, you can get away with one that matches the output of your amp. 50w amp > 50w attenuator. But you ever wanna full crank it and bring it down with an attenuator, you need double the attenuator handling.

[Minerman]

I've been looking at some cheapies man...Maybe here in another month or so, maybe...

If you use the master volume in conjunction with an attenuator, you can get away with one that matches the output of your amp. 50w amp > 50w attenuator. But you ever wanna full crank it and bring it down with an attenuator, you need double the attenuator handling.

Yeah dude, you've done your homework schooling me...

I've been looking at those cheap Bugera 100w attenuators, they're like $100 & would probably be all I'd need with what I have...While I know "never say never", I honestly don't see me buying another amp for quite a while man...

I kinda had my heart set on a Weber Mass 200, but I just can't swing it at the moment...Have to do the "wait & see" thing over here, like always...

[Minerman]

So, here's a bunch of tones using the strat > Chupa > Greenback ISO cab > i5...Some of 'em are pretty usable, but without tweaking the tonestack, it can get either muddy or harsh, depending on the bright switches...

Signal chain: strat split bridge p'up > Chupa > Greenback > i5

The only thing I changed in any of these clips are the bright swtiches, I didn't touch the tonestack, gains, or master...

Amp settings (I purposely left the "Bright Switch" settings out here, they're all different in each clip, labeled accordingly):

• Resonance:2
  Presence: 5
  Bass: 7
  Middle:5
  Treble:5
  Master:9
  Gain 2:3
  Gain 1:3
  ERA: R "80's"

1 - Bright 2-C Bright 1-R.mp3

2 - Bright 2-C Bright 1-L.mp3

3 - Bright 2-R Bright 1-C.mp3

4 - Bright 2-L Bright 1-C.mp3

[Minerman]

5 - Bright 2-R Bright 1-R.mp3

6 - Bright 2-R Bright 1-L.mp3

7 - Bright 2-L Bright 1-L.mp3

And, of course, this wouldn't be complete without one of my high-gain, cock-rock tones, completely over-done with effects...

Strat HB bridge > Chupa > Greenback > i5 > shit-load of fx in daw

• Resonance:2
  Presence:7
  Bass:7
  Middle:3
  Treble:8
  Master:9
  Gain 2:1.5
  Gain 1:7
  ERA: R 80's
  Bright 2:L
  Bright 1:L

Cock-Rock w-FX 9-28-2018.mp3

[liv_rong]

All of those sound good to me man. I know I dont help much in here, Im just hear for support haha