The Tone Thread

[Bill L]

So, for the longest time I've been meaning to upload a recording with the Mutt90's I got from Muttley a while back but life and shit got in the way. So today I finally got motivated enough (and had enough time to burn) that I was able to finally get a track done. A while back, I got a couple of my friends together to start work on some originals. This is still in the planning stages but I thought it would be a cool tune for the Mutt90's. Drums and bass were recorded in the same room. My guitar (the left channel) is a Les Paul plugged into a Digitech GFX1 Twin Tube and recorded direct. All recorded live back in April. The guitar on the right and during the solo is my cheap ass Les Paul Gold Top copy that I bought around 1986 or so for like $40 and hadn't been used (or even touched) since around 1988. I plugged straight into my Vox AC 30 (with 2 Greenbacks) using the high input on the Top Boost Channel. I used a Sennheiser e609 about an inch off the grill and about 1" off the dust cap.

Mutt, let me know if you want me to send you the file or upload it somewhere.

Pork Belly Blues Rebels Mix 2018-09-06.mp3

[Minerman]

So, for the longest time I've been meaning to upload a recording with the Mutt90's I got from Muttley a while back but life and shit got in the way. So today I finally got motivated enough (and had enough time to burn) that I was able to finally get a track done. A while back, I got a couple of my friends together to start work on some originals. This is still in the planning stages but I thought it would be a cool tune for the Mutt90's. Drums and bass were recorded in the same room. My guitar (the left channel) is a Les Paul plugged into a Digitech GFX1 Twin Tube and recorded direct. All recorded live back in April. The guitar on the right and during the solo is my cheap ass Les Paul Gold Top copy that I bought around 1986 or so for like $40 and hadn't been used (or even touched) since around 1988. I plugged straight into my Vox AC 30 (with 2 Greenbacks) using the high input on the Top Boost Channel. I used a Sennheiser e609 about an inch off the grill and about 1" off the dust cap.

The left rhythm guitar tone is quite fizzy Bill...Does the Digitech have cab simulation??? Sounds like you have it turned off in the left rhythm guitar (to me anyway)...

The right rhythm guitar & lead guitar sound pretty damn good dude...

[Greg_L]

Yeah that left guitar is straight fizz. Like miner said, it does sound like it has no cab emulation. The right guitar sounds pretty normal and much better than the left.

[JD01]

Yeah, I was flipping off my left and right can while listening to that. You need to sort that left guitar out!

[liv_rong]

My amp sounded great to me today, not so much my mic though lol. The first one is my goldtop alone. The second on JD asked for, each LP panned. None of this was done with a click, just some sloppy goofing around. Just raw tracks too. I think both could work with some eq and in a mix would sound pretty decent.

[JD01]

The single track sounds a bit ropey to me, mate.
Sounds quite harsh, like you've got the mic really close to the centre, but also sounds dull and undefined at the same time - Is that your Mesa?
You know what you're listening to in the room so its probably down to your mic or mic placement.

How did you go about dialing in your tone? And then how did you work on your mic placement?

Sounds much better when you've got the hard panned guitars, but that's probably just 'cos the variation in the two tones are producing more of a spread generally - are they captured in the same way?

[JD01]

Liv, you've got me in the mood for some hard panned metal tones. I think this is the closest I've managed to get to early 90s metal... albeit not quite as scooped. I've also had a bit of a play about with my mic placement this morning. I'm pretty pleased with this even though I don't have a song to use it in! I actually think it sounds a bit Ramstein-ish.

Bridge pickup>SD-1(set for boost)>H&K Lead channel>HoF>V30>i5.

The HoF is in the loop giving a bit of verb.

Bass - 12:00
Treble - 13:00
Mids - 10:00

Metal Rhythm.mp3

EDIT:
I've since EQ'd it to sound even more Ramsteinish!

Metal Rhythm W EQ.mp3

Metal EQ.JPG

[Bubba]

There's a lot of useless frequencies and hiss getting boosted there, JD. There are no useable electric guitar frequencies above about 7k. All fizz and nastiness.

[liv_rong]

The single track sounds a bit ropey to me, mate.
Sounds quite harsh, like you've got the mic really close to the centre, but also sounds dull and undefined at the same time - Is that your Mesa?
You know what you're listening to in the room so its probably down to your mic or mic placement.

How did you go about dialing in your tone? And then how did you work on your mic placement?

Sounds much better when you've got the hard panned guitars, but that's probably just 'cos the variation in the two tones are producing more of a spread generally - are they captured in the same way?

I know its mostly mic placement , I just hit record and went, didnt play with it at all. I have a lot of trouble getting dirty tones. Both versions are recorded the same way.

[liv_rong]

Liv, you've got me in the mood for some hard panned metal tones. I think this is the closest I've managed to get to early 90s metal... albeit not quite as scooped. I've also had a bit of a play about with my mic placement this morning. I'm pretty pleased with this even though I don't have a song to use it in! I actually think it sounds a bit Ramstein-ish.

Bridge pickup>SD-1(set for boost)>H&K Lead channel>HoF>V30>i5.

The HoF is in the loop giving a bit of verb.

Bass - 12:00
Treble - 13:00
Mids - 10:00

Metal Rhythm.mp3

EDIT:
I've since EQ'd it to sound even more Ramsteinish!
Metal Rhythm W EQ.mp3
Metal EQ.JPG

That sounds good JD, I like it. I prefer the og version though.

[JD01]

Liv, you've got me in the mood for some hard panned metal tones. I think this is the closest I've managed to get to early 90s metal... albeit not quite as scooped. I've also had a bit of a play about with my mic placement this morning. I'm pretty pleased with this even though I don't have a song to use it in! I actually think it sounds a bit Ramstein-ish.

Bridge pickup>SD-1(set for boost)>H&K Lead channel>HoF>V30>i5.

The HoF is in the loop giving a bit of verb.

Bass - 12:00
Treble - 13:00
Mids - 10:00

Metal Rhythm.mp3

EDIT:
I've since EQ'd it to sound even more Ramsteinish!
Metal Rhythm W EQ.mp3
Metal EQ.JPG

That sounds good JD, I like it. I prefer the og version though.

Cheers, Liv. In reality it probably soubds best with the little scoop at 430hz and without the high shelf... but the high shelf just made it sound very 90s to me. Would probably be better if I put a more sensible targeted high frequency boost on it rather than that huge shelf!

I normally end up with that 430 scoop on my master buss, I've always found that's where I tend to get a build up of dirt that I want to be rid of.

[JD01]

The single track sounds a bit ropey to me, mate.
Sounds quite harsh, like you've got the mic really close to the centre, but also sounds dull and undefined at the same time - Is that your Mesa?
You know what you're listening to in the room so its probably down to your mic or mic placement.

How did you go about dialing in your tone? And then how did you work on your mic placement?

Sounds much better when you've got the hard panned guitars, but that's probably just 'cos the variation in the two tones are producing more of a spread generally - are they captured in the same way?

I know its mostly mic placement , I just hit record and went, didnt play with it at all. I have a lot of trouble getting dirty tones. Both versions are recorded the same way.

How are you going about working on your mic placement?

[JD01]

Anyway, enough of all that metal stupidity! Most of the tones I post have a boost in front of the amp, or are pulled straight out of a mix with reverb or a hi-pass on them.

This is my crunch channel, no verbs, no boosting, no EQ or anything
Master at 12:00
Gain 13:00
Treble 13:00
Mid 10:00
Bass 12:00

Crunch No FX.mp3

Thing I've noticed with the H&K is that I get a better tone on 1W mode than I do on 5W or 20W. I've looked into this a bit more and found out that the power reduction for 20W is done by disengaging power tubes. When on 1W or 0W they are all engaged and its more attenuated.

I haven't spent enough time comparing them all directly to describe it properly, but when you adjust the volumes to be equal 1W sounds fuller.
I've not had much success recording it on 40W mode 'cos its just way too loud! I haven't tried it since I did the room out and got it carpeted though. I suppose I could do another comparison at some point if you're interested

[Minerman]

My amp sounded great to me today, not so much my mic though lol. The first one is my goldtop alone. The second on JD asked for, each LP panned. None of this was done with a click, just some sloppy goofing around. Just raw tracks too. I think both could work with some eq and in a mix would sound pretty decent.

I liked the 2nd clip best Liv, but to me, both clips sound like you need to tweak your mic placement...They're a bit dark to me...Eq would work too, but I try to get 'em to sound how I want 'em going into the daw...

The two LP's do have a different sound to 'em, so this would be good to use in a mix to sound like 2 different players/rigs...This is the biggest reason I re-did my strat, so I could have 2 totally different sounding guitars...
Cool beans man...

Liv, you've got me in the mood for some hard panned metal tones. I think this is the closest I've managed to get to early 90s metal... albeit not quite as scooped. I've also had a bit of a play about with my mic placement this morning. I'm pretty pleased with this even though I don't have a song to use it in! I actually think it sounds a bit Ramstein-ish.

Bridge pickup>SD-1(set for boost)>H&K Lead channel>HoF>V30>i5.

The HoF is in the loop giving a bit of verb.

Bass - 12:00
Treble - 13:00
Mids - 10:00


EDIT:
I've since EQ'd it to sound even more Ramsteinish!

Not bad Jdude, but I gotta agree with Bubba's post below:

There's a lot of useless frequencies and hiss getting boosted there, JD. There are no useable electric guitar frequencies above about 7k. All fizz and nastiness.

+1 If/when I use an eq to brighten up my guitars in a mix, I usually start with a high shelf around 1k or so, & sweep it up until I find what I'm after...If/when I use a high cut, I do the opposite, starting at 15khz & sweep down in the spectrum until it kills the fizz, while leaving the high end alone...It can be a pretty fine line sometimes...

Anyway, enough of all that metal stupidity! Most of the tones I post have a boost in front of the amp, or are pulled straight out of a mix with reverb or a hi-pass on them.

This is my crunch channel, no verbs, no boosting, no EQ or anything
Master at 12:00
Gain 13:00
Treble 13:00
Mid 10:00
Bass 12:00


Thing I've noticed with the H&K is that I get a better tone on 1W mode than I do on 5W or 20W. I've looked into this a bit more and found out that the power reduction for 20W is done by disengaging power tubes. When on 1W or 0W they are all engaged and its more attenuated.

I haven't spent enough time comparing them all directly to describe it properly, but when you adjust the volumes to be equal 1W sounds fuller.
I've not had much success recording it on 40W mode 'cos its just way too loud! I haven't tried it since I did the room out and got it carpeted though. I suppose I could do another comparison at some point if you're interested

Much better sounding guitars Jdude...Nothing at all wrong with the last clips, but this just sounds more natural, & more like Jdude to me...

[JD01]

Cheers miner. I have a plan next time I want some metal guitars!

Also, mic placement. Gonna stick with this now and having everything marked up really satisfies my OCD.

Mic Placement.jpg

[Greg_L]

Anyway, enough of all that metal stupidity! Most of the tones I post have a boost in front of the amp, or are pulled straight out of a mix with reverb or a hi-pass on them.

This is my crunch channel, no verbs, no boosting, no EQ or anything
Master at 12:00
Gain 13:00
Treble 13:00
Mid 10:00
Bass 12:00

Crunch No FX.mp3

Thing I've noticed with the H&K is that I get a better tone on 1W mode than I do on 5W or 20W. I've looked into this a bit more and found out that the power reduction for 20W is done by disengaging power tubes. When on 1W or 0W they are all engaged and its more attenuated.

I haven't spent enough time comparing them all directly to describe it properly, but when you adjust the volumes to be equal 1W sounds fuller.
I've not had much success recording it on 40W mode 'cos its just way too loud! I haven't tried it since I did the room out and got it carpeted though. I suppose I could do another comparison at some point if you're interested

To me this is better than all of the boosted tones. That SD-1 permanently on is not necessary anymore. Get out of that mindset. This is so much better. A little flubby, but the basic tone in there is great. It's open, it has depth to it, way better than that flattened perma-compressed sound.

[rayc]

My OCD would get itchy about the unevenly torn tape.

[SweetDan]

My OCD would get itchy about the unevenly torn tape.

But at least it's arranged such that the straight edges are all towards the inside of the square-ish shape.

---

Now for something more serious: a tone experiment in which I both use and do not use a boost pedal. I think I know which is a "better" tone, but I'm seeking additional viewpoints and suggestions. The pedal in question is the "Ember Drive" I built a while back (check the DIY threads...maybe I'll come back and edit this with the link linked here: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1690) which through experimentation on my part turned out more like a clean-ish boost with a tone control (high-pass filter) and less like an overdrive.

The setup:

- Tele-clone, bridge pickup, tone 100%, vol starts rolled off maybe 40%, then ends at 100% (full on)
- boost pedal, level at 12 o'clock, tone somewhere between 7-8 o'clock (I accidentally wired it backwards, so a setting like that actually cuts most of the bass)
- Vox early-gen modeling amp (AD30VT) in "UK 70's" mode, "gain" set so it breaks up a bit when the guitar is 100% vol, treble above 50%, mid/bass below 50%
-> SM57, off-axis about 45 deg., capsule in front of the center of the cone, and backed off the grille about 1.5"

The sound clips -- #1 and #2 -- raw recording / no processing other than rough level matching between the clips and between the softer/louder parts within each, and I'm not saying in which the boost pedal is on and in which it's off:

boostExperiment_1.mp3

boostExperiment_2.mp3

EDIT: added the link to the pedal build thread

[rayc]

My OCD would get itchy about the unevenly torn tape.

But at least it's arranged such that the straight edges are all towards the inside of the square-ish shape.

Yes & No:
Straight edges were noted & scored a tick.
Squarish was noted and scored a cross.
The piece over to the lefthad my attention for some time - pondering it's purpose and it's lack of clarification thereof.

[JD01]

To me this is better than all of the boosted tones. That SD-1 permanently on is not necessary anymore. Get out of that mindset. This is so much better. A little flubby, but the basic tone in there is great. It's open, it has depth to it, way better than that flattened perma-compressed sound.

Yeah - I like it too. The last song I've put together has pretty much every pickup configuration of my guitar both boosted and unboosted on it.
I think the slight flub would be pretty easy to dial out with a bit of high pass in a mix, its not that bad. If I come up with a nice little riff I like I'll try and come up with a simple punk song using this tone before long.