The Tone Thread

[rayc]

This is probably the most I've ever heard you activate the rock.
I like the base tone for this, but there are a couple issues...
1) There's a lot of "wobble" in your sustain. The guitars are out of tune and/or have intonation problems and/or you're fretting needs a little tidying up. You can hear it right away leading up to about the :15 mark.
2) Take the compressor off the guitars. I promise you there's no need for that. Nothing good comes from compressing overdriven rhythm guitars unless maybe you're doing some real heavy chugga chugga metal crap. Let it breathe.
3) I know what the "Mud Free" EQ is. That thing is pretty savage. If you're using that preset and it's still this dark and thick and needs that much low cut just to get where it is, then the issue has to be the miking.
Can you post the guitar tracks without the blend?

Thanks for the detail Greg,
1) The wobble is weird and yes; this Mustang has intonation problems AGAIN/still. I checked basic tuning and it was fine but the notes really wobble through the note even when in the process of tuning.
Yep, I was scrambling to fret properly several/many times as I've not really managed to rehearse properly at the new speed and I was trying out different positions on the neck as I went. Getting the F shaped chords right wasn't too bad but I kept freaking out when I went to the E worrying that I wouldn't get the finger back on in time for the F.
2) Will do - it was just a lazy way of evening out levels.
3) The mudfree is on the guitar bus only but yeah, I was worried about the "darkness" as well as build up from the one guitar.
I'll post the guitar tracks tomorrow (9pm at present).

[Minerman]

Wow Ray, never heard you unleash on anything like this man!!!

I think I'm hearing the compressor clamping down on your tone after the initial transient comes through...IMO you need to just ditch the comp...

If it sounds really bright in the room, I'd say you just need to tweak your mic position a little toward the center of the speaker a little...

Jdude said it sounds like it's about to explode & I agree...
It already sounds loud & aggressive in the clip, when you get your mic(s) dialed in that should be a pretty rockin' tone...

[rayc]

Wow Ray, never heard you unleash on anything like this man!!!

Thanks MM,
I'll upload, for analysis, the current tracks are request by Greg before I take another forward step.

[rayc]

Here we go.
1st the same mix as yesterday with NO gtr treatment at all:

Juneriffdrygtrs.mp3

Here're the separate mic'd tracks in that mix (OD refers to using an overdrive pedal as boost only on the track:

M6OD57.mp3

M6OD609.mp3

M7OD57.mp3

M7OD609.mp3

I can't upload the middle guitar as I've exceeded my limit in this post. I'll do them in the following one.

[rayc]

Here're the two guitars that make up the middle track:

M257.mp3

M4609.mp3

[Minerman]

Ray I think the mix you posted without any processing on the guitars sounds much better man...

The raw/solo'd tracks also sound about how I think they should, with my experience using those mics...

I think you've just got too many guitar tracks going all at one time & they're messing with each other...Maybe try using the 57 tracks for the 2 panned guitars, & the 609 for the middle guitar...

Or, just drop one of the panned guitars, & replace it with the middle guitar's 609 track...

That's just my , we'll wait & see what the other guys say...

[Greg_L]

I agree with everything miner said. Choose one of each take and just use that. Maybe 57 take on the left, other 609 take on the right. Either middle track in the middle.

[rayc]

Minerman & Greg,
As I said - struggling with newness. I didn't realize as this was just 1st use, that the Res Comp coloured/darkened at all, let alone how much. I'm used to the colouration of Blockfish but also the transparent nature of ReaComp. I also have to admit that I threw the comp on without listening to it 1st.
I was amazed when I ran the mix with the comp and EQ off. Oh, I only had MudFree on middle track.
Now I'm amazed at how I'd over complicated things with the mic blend. It had worked before - well once at least.
Learning, learning thanks to the good ears of MM & Greg.
Here's a quick guitar only mix I pull the middle guitar out & in during the verse to suss out whether it's needed there.

juneriff fewer mics.mp3

and here they are in the mix...

Junerifsinny178.mp3

[Minerman]

This sounds better to my ears Ray, that's a good idea to omit some of the tracks during the verse, then bring 'em in for the chorus...It can really add some chunk/girth/punch to the chorus...

There's still the intonation/fretting thing though, but something I can suggest that I do sometimes is just use 2 or 3-note chords...Of course it works with the usual bar chords, but it'll work with your F-shaped chords too...I usually use the bottom/thickest sounding notes when I do this, but you can play around with some different combinations to see what works...Doing that can add some neat voicing to your chords...

I couldn't remember if you'd ever gotten your Marshall lined out, but these clips sound more like I think they should than anything you've posted with that amp...
It sounds really loud & pissed off in your recordings dude, I like it...

[Greg_L]

Minerman & Greg,
As I said - struggling with newness. I didn't realize as this was just 1st use, that the Res Comp coloured/darkened at all, let alone how much. I'm used to the colouration of Blockfish but also the transparent nature of ReaComp. I also have to admit that I threw the comp on without listening to it 1st.
I was amazed when I ran the mix with the comp and EQ off. Oh, I only had MudFree on middle track.
Now I'm amazed at how I'd over complicated things with the mic blend. It had worked before - well once at least.
Learning, learning thanks to the good ears of MM & Greg.
Here's a quick guitar only mix I pull the middle guitar out & in during the verse to suss out whether it's needed there.
juneriff fewer mics.mp3

and here they are in the mix...
Junerifsinny178.mp3

The mic blend is a good thing most of the time, but as you can see, not always. Your new guitar mix is much better. You still have room to tidy up the low end without destroying the tone.

The fretting/intonation thing is something to work on.

[ocnor]

excerpt.mp3

Here is an excerpt from a tune that I've been working on. The guitars were all done with a Les Paul custom with Duncan Distortion pickups into an AMT VT2 pedal. To me it sounds surprisingly amp like. What do you guys think of the tone?

[rayc]

oconor,
I love the bass tone. Any special secret sauce on that?
Guitar tone? Which output did you use? to power section, to preamp or DI?
I have trouble with high gain stuff because I don't listen to it often or use it.
Sounds good as in polished and appropriate.

[ocnor]

oconor,
I love the bass tone. Any special secret sauce on that?
Guitar tone? Which output did you use? to power section, to preamp or DI?
I have trouble with high gain stuff because I don't listen to it often or use it.
Sounds good as in polished and appropriate.

Thanks Ray! The bass is just a cheap-o Ibanez recorded direct. For vst effects I used the Ronald Passion Bass Preamp and an Antress modern series compressor and limiter. http://www.vst4free.com/free_vst.php?pl ... mp&id=2171
For guitar I used the DI output and a high pass filter. There are no other effects on the 2 rhythm guitars. The lead guitar tracks have a bit of flanger and delay.

[ocnor]

I think you could easily listen to that and not be worried about the origin of the tone, unless you were a purist - although I don't have the best ears for this stuff, so we'll see what the others say... Sounds pretty good to me!

Thanks! As much as I love my tube amps I'm not always in a position to crank them when recording.

[ocnor]

I've just started working up a new tune and am trying to sort in my head the base track - at least for the start. So I was mucking around with the tele and a Carol Ann amp profile (Miro's favourite amp... ) and put some tremolo, and random reverb and delay on it, without agonising too much about the various settings.

Obviously it'll start out a bit sparse, so probably just a single track and then build up and down as the song goes through its various parts. I suspect it may be a bit too much of all the effects, myself - sounds nice when that's the only thing playing but might not work in a mix.

Any thoughts? Overall tone, trem, delay, reverb - apologies for the relatively clunky single take playing - I'm still learning the various bits. Have left a touch of the click on it. It goes through, repeats and then gets to what is probably going to be the chorus, with the full strummed chords, at the end.

15_The_Dreams_Malfunction.mp3

It sounds quite nice. Like you said, sitting in a mix is much different.

[rayc]

Armistice/David,
It sounds like you I LOVE the last chord before the strumming/chorus as the effects combine to make a lovely sound.
Cool.

[Greg_L]

excerpt.mp3

Here is an excerpt from a tune that I've been working on. The guitars were all done with a Les Paul custom with Duncan Distortion pickups into an AMT VT2 pedal. To me it sounds surprisingly amp like. What do you guys think of the tone?

I think that sounds pretty good. Amazing that it's a stompbox sized modeler.

[Greg_L]

I've just started working up a new tune and am trying to sort in my head the base track - at least for the start. So I was mucking around with the tele and a Carol Ann amp profile (Miro's favourite amp... ) and put some tremolo, and random reverb and delay on it, without agonising too much about the various settings.

Obviously it'll start out a bit sparse, so probably just a single track and then build up and down as the song goes through its various parts. I suspect it may be a bit too much of all the effects, myself - sounds nice when that's the only thing playing but might not work in a mix.

Any thoughts? Overall tone, trem, delay, reverb - apologies for the relatively clunky single take playing - I'm still learning the various bits. Have left a touch of the click on it. It goes through, repeats and then gets to what is probably going to be the chorus, with the full strummed chords, at the end.

15_The_Dreams_Malfunction.mp3

I love tremolo.....stereo tremolo not so much. Sounds disorienting. Besides the nausea, sounds pretty good.

[Greg_L]

Thanks.. I've dialled everything down a bit and am still trying to work out how best to play it - that included reducing the stereo effect, which I must admit I don't really hear when I'm noodling away as I'm sitting close to one of the monitors - I'll take that into consideration before actually tracking anything.

Yeah I think it's probably best if you keep the tremolo mono. Stereo delay is cool and all, but that kind of fast stereo tremolo might induce seizures in some people.

[Minerman]

Ocnor: Pretty amazing for a tiny sized modeler dude...In fact, I think it sounds pretty damn good myself...Listening to your clip made me realize something about the bass tone I usually end up with, I always seem to have way too much low end trying to make it sound punchy...
Well done...

Armi: This is good too Armi, no doubt...I love stereo effects myself, but when I use 'em in a mix, they seem to make the guitar sound a bit thin, but I obviously lose the spread I like when I try mono...I like the odd-sounding chords you always seem to use too, that actually makes up a big part of the tone for me, as it adds to the vibe IMO...Nothing at all wrong with this dude, of course how it sits in a mix is all that really matters, but I don't think you'll have any problems here...