The Tone Thread

New Guitar Day? Obsessed with tone? 10 on the volume dial not enough? Celestion vs. Electrovoice? Cum in, feel the noize.
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Greg_L
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

Armistice wrote: ↑Wed May 09, 2018 9:01 am So, as threatened I dug up a couple of Kemper profiles done by people I've heard of and trust when I searched the word "Plexi" in the Kemper.

Now bear in mind when you all go into Marshall wonderland, I don't really know what the fuck you're talking about. I know Marshall sound, roughly, but I'm not up on the finer points of it, so this may not sound anything at all like a plexi and may also not be the right type of tune - I just used the same thing I've used before here which is more a metal-ly bit than a hard rock bit, but that's all you're going to get at 9pm on a school night.

I put two different ones on, hard left and right.

I did some research and apparently there are some very good plexi profiles but they're not free - but they're not all that expensive either, so if you want and think I'll find them useful I'm happy to buy some and do some more tones - but I wasn't going to go there tonight.

I'd have to say they don't sound that much different from other things I've done with this particular tune using various profiles, including other Marshall amps. Happy to tinker more if you tell me what's good / bad / wrong / right about them. And that might be "do a different tune!"

Here you go... oh, and Les Paul standard, in case that's not obvious. Now that I listen, I'm thinking too much gain - that's the problem of doing this with low volumes - such things aren't always obvious at tracking.

Plexis.mp3
I think it sounds okay. Pretty thick in the low mids. To me, what you have there would be like a JTM45 Plexi tone. A little dark and thick. It doesn't have the high mid grind that has come to be generally known for "Plexi sound". But then again, JTM45s weren't like that. They were basically the first "Plexi" and they were little more than Fender Bassmans. Maybe your profile is in that very early Plexi vein. And unfortunately, there is the unfortunate reality that sims and emulation does tend to make everything kind of sound the same. You could probably get that type of tone with any number of amp profiles.

The real problem with "Plexi tone" is there is no "Plexi tone". Plexi-type amps are caveman simple, but they can make a huge array of tones and everyone has a different opinion on what Plexi tone means to them. The term Plexi also gets thrown around for any Marshall from the 60s or 70s with four inputs and no master volume...when technically Plexis ended in 1969. The correct term for a 100 watt non-master volume Marshall would be "Super Lead", but Plexi is easier and everyone knows what you mean.

So you really have like three eras of "Plexi" Super Lead amps.
Pre 1966-67 - they're pretty dark and low gain. Basically, Fender Bassman clones.
1967-1972-ish - This is like the golden era for Plexis.
1973 - 1979 - the MkII era. They got brighter and more aggressive. These are the sound of 70s classic rock.

So....if you can cherry pick through Kemper profiles, the years and models matter for different sounds.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Minerman »

That sounds pretty good Armi, but IMO it does need some tweaking to get into "plexi" territory for me...It needs more of that bright, cutting grind in the high mid/high end, again, to me...

Is it possible to tweak that profile a bit??? Like add some high mid/high end to that??? If so, I'd say you could tweak it a bit & get a "ballpark" plexi tone dude...

I'm still pretty fascinated with the Kemper, it's a whole lot of things all wrapped up into one package...The silent recording option is still pretty high on the list too, & I've heard some pretty damn good tones from that thing dude...

If you're looking to buy a few profiles, Michael Britt, the guitar player for the country band "Lonestar" has some good sounding profiles, including some revved-up plexi-type sounds...No idea how much they cost or anything, but I do remember being impressed with the tones he was getting from his Kemper...IIRC, he did their whole last album with it, & I think he uses the Kemper live now too...

Keep up updated on your plexi hunt dude, I'm interested... :minernuggs:
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Greg_L
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

Armistice wrote: ↑Wed May 09, 2018 5:38 pm

Yeah, I sort of got a lot of that as I was researching it a bit looking for profiles that I may not already have on the machine - and in listening I caught the low mids thing too - as I said, that's one of the problems with recording at low volume - getting the EQ right, but they do always seem to come out, stock, with that sort of bump.

It's one of the things I haven't worked out yet - so you profile by getting the sound of the amp as you want it including microphone and position, cab, EQ, gain, master volume whatever... then you plug the Kemper in where the guitar goes and the mic into the Kemper and it makes some weird noises and you end up with a profile. So when I go looking for a profile I'm expecting B/M/T to be flat, as it's just a sound you can tweak on its own, but they rarely are.
Yes, that is pretty much how profiles are made, but I'm not sure what they're supposed to do with the EQ controls. You are pretty much at the mercy of whoever made the profile, I guess.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Minerman »

Armistice wrote: ↑Wed May 09, 2018 5:53 pm Very aware of M. Britt and his profiles - he's one of about a half dozen people who are regarded as making really good profiles and have stores where you can buy them - one of the two, can't remember which side, is in fact his freebie plexi profile. But like anyone running a business, what you get for free is just a taste - you go into the store and buy and you'll get a lot more.

You can get "packs" of amps which have a variety of gain levels (whilst you have a gain control on the Kemper I tend to find removing gain, if you don't like the stock level, has a good effect on any given profile, but adding it not so much) to choose from - and I haven't looked around but I saw another (TopJimi - one of the half dozen) guy's plexi pack for $12 - so cheap as chips if you get what you want.
Top Jimi is another guy I've heard that his tones are quite impressive...I'd love to have a Kemper, but I'm pretty much all in with my amps, & if I do need totally silent (the ISO cab is pretty close with the little Marshall), I still have all kinds of software too, so really, I'm good unless I buy another amp, which will happen eventually...

I will say it ain't gonna be a Marshall Origin though, I had hopes for it, but it'd be a waste of my $$$, & time...
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

Minerman wrote: ↑Wed May 09, 2018 7:30 pm

I will say it ain't gonna be a Marshall Origin though, I had hopes for it, but it'd be a waste of my $$$, & time...
My Mini Jubilee smokes that thing IMO... :minernuggs:
Lol. Fuck yeah it does.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by JD01 »

Just recorded some tones that I quite like - I was chatting to Bubba about them and I thought it would be best if I posted them here.

Left side is my custom with the mids pushed (about 2:30pm) make it a bit angrier.
Right side is my PRS with the mids scooped (about 9:30pm) which tames the P90s a bit.

I think this works really well actually - its for a grungy song of mine that I'm redoing and I'm pretty happy with it.
I actually had to push the PRS up a db or two in the mix to balance them out 'cos scooping the mids took a lot out of the volume - the PRS is normally a tiny bit louder too.

Its only about 10s long
Grunge Tone Test.mp3
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

JD01 wrote: ↑Mon May 28, 2018 4:50 pm Just recorded some tones that I quite like - I was chatting to Bubba about them and I thought it would be best if I posted them here.

Left side is my custom with the mids pushed (about 2:30pm) make it a bit angrier.
Right side is my PRS with the mids scooped (about 9:30pm) which tames the P90s a bit.

I think this works really well actually - its for a grungy song of mine that I'm redoing and I'm pretty happy with it.
I actually had to push the PRS up a db or two in the mix to balance them out 'cos scooping the mids took a lot out of the volume - the PRS is normally a tiny bit louder too.

Its only about 10s long
Grunge Tone Test.mp3
Very metal. Sounds okay to me. Maybe a little fizzy and thin-ish IMO. Might be okay for a full mix.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Minerman »

JD01 wrote: ↑Mon May 28, 2018 4:50 pm Just recorded some tones that I quite like - I was chatting to Bubba about them and I thought it would be best if I posted them here.

Left side is my custom with the mids pushed (about 2:30pm) make it a bit angrier.
Right side is my PRS with the mids scooped (about 9:30pm) which tames the P90s a bit.

I think this works really well actually - its for a grungy song of mine that I'm redoing and I'm pretty happy with it.
I actually had to push the PRS up a db or two in the mix to balance them out 'cos scooping the mids took a lot out of the volume - the PRS is normally a tiny bit louder too.
I like these tones Jdude, lots of clarity/definition with some attitude...I think the new H&K amp suits you very well dude... :minernuggs:
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by JD01 »

Cheers guys,
They are pulled straight out of the mix so are hi passed. But they sit in the mix pretty well and I quite like it. I don’t normally use tones that are so different on each side of a mix.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by rayc »

Grunge? I don't know. More metal to me without context.
Your new amp has made amazing difference to your tone.
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Re: The Tone Thread

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Yeah, I'm really happy with the amp. I can't imagine anything better for what I want.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

JD01 wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 2:10 am I don’t normally use tones that are so different on each side of a mix.
That's usually one of the keys to getting a big guitar mix. They don't have to be wildly different, but differences in the rhythm tracks usually sounds big. Grabbing a different guitar with different pickups is an easy way to do that. Use a different amp or cab if you can. A different amp channel. A different mic. Something, anything.
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Re: The Tone Thread

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Greg_L wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 7:52 am
JD01 wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 2:10 am I don’t normally use tones that are so different on each side of a mix.
That's usually one of the keys to getting a big guitar mix. They don't have to be wildly different, but differences in the rhythm tracks usually sounds big. Grabbing a different guitar with different pickups is an easy way to do that. Use a different amp or cab if you can. A different amp channel. A different mic. Something, anything.
Yeah, I usually double track with my PRS if I'm double tracking identical parts to make things a bit different. I do sometimes use my custom for everything, but then I normally make sure that the left and right guitars are playing different things or do some other sort of tweak to make things different.

Its unusual for me to try two things that are so different for double tracking as this though - still, all good fun and I'm looking forward to trying more stuff with the rest of the guitars on this. This song has double tracked lead and a spacey interlude to mess about with.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

JD01 wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 7:58 am
Yeah, I usually double track with my PRS if I'm double tracking identical parts to make things a bit different. I do sometimes use my custom for everything, but then I normally make sure that the left and right guitars are playing different things or do some other sort of tweak to make things different.

Its unusual for me to try two things that are so different for double tracking as this though - still, all good fun and I'm looking forward to trying more stuff with the rest of the guitars on this. This song has double tracked lead and a spacey interlude to mess about with.
I used to double track leads very often. My stupid kind of lead parts are easy enough to quintuple track if I felt like it. Double tracked leads sound cool if you can pull it off.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by JD01 »

Greg_L wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 8:12 am I used to double track leads very often. My stupid kind of lead parts are easy enough to quintuple track if I felt like it. Double tracked leads sound cool if you can pull it off.
Its not a fast or tricky lead - I think the only reason I double tracked it originally was 'cos I hadn't yet discovered sticking delay on lead guitar - and now I've kind of got used to it being double tracked. No bends in it either - inaccurate bending is great for making double tracked guitar sound comically bad!
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

JD01 wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 8:17 am
Its not a fast or tricky lead - I think the only reason I double tracked it originally was 'cos I hadn't yet discovered sticking delay on lead guitar - and now I've kind of got used to it being double tracked. No bends in it either - inaccurate bending is great for making double tracked guitar sound comically bad!
Or really good.
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Re: The Tone Thread

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Greg_L wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 8:26 am Or really good.
Can you think of an example? Surely it just sounds like out of tune chaos... and not in a good way.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by Greg_L »

JD01 wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 8:27 am
Can you think of an example? Surely it just sounds like out of tune chaos... and not in a good way.
Out of tune chaos can be good too.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by SweetDan »

Greg_L wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 8:29 am
JD01 wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 8:27 am
Can you think of an example? Surely it just sounds like out of tune chaos... and not in a good way.
Out of tune chaos can be good too.
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Re: The Tone Thread

Post by SweetDan »

But really, all we want to know is how the music sounds coming out of that new purple box of yours...
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