Greg_L wrote: ↑Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:02 am
I would guess that it's because you mangled the Blackstar tracks just to make them passable. Boost the front end, EQ in the loop, etc, you butchered that shit just to make it work. The less you do to a sound to make it work in a mix, the better.
Could be - they just sounded so thin and distant in comparison!
I'm trying to decide whether to sell my EQ pedal or not - Its the sort of thing that would probably come in handy, but then I've got loads of shit laying around the place that I never use (as most of us probably have) that will probably come in handy...
The OCD and SD1 still have their uses which is good - the OCD is great for a solos, which the SD1 can work for higher gain rhythm.
JD01 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:59 am
.............
Weird thing I've noticed (although you'll probably tell me theres a good reason for it) is that the newer tones sound much louder in the mix. I've check my metering to make sure that they're about the same level as they were previously but when mixing I can knock a few db off them for the same sort of percieved loudness - gives much more space in the mix.
Was it the same pup? If so it has to be the amp and the fact that it is more open..
JD01 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:59 am
.............
Weird thing I've noticed (although you'll probably tell me theres a good reason for it) is that the newer tones sound much louder in the mix. I've check my metering to make sure that they're about the same level as they were previously but when mixing I can knock a few db off them for the same sort of percieved loudness - gives much more space in the mix.
Was it the same pup? If so it has to be the amp and the fact that it is more open..
Jdude: I like the direct "HK East Sun" tone, Greg mentioned it being a bit scratchy, but I don't really...Maybe tame the highs or presence, but it's not bad...
Your mic'd clips are in a whole different league than the Blackstar dude, especially when you double-track 'em...I dunno what you're doing different, but it's like night/day to me...Sounds like a great little amp, I'm glad you finally got something different from the Blackstar dude...
Gibson, Fender, Ibanez, Jackson
Ceriatone, Marshall, EVH
TC Electronic, MXR, Yamaha
My music @ Reverbnation
JD01 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:17 pm
Single Mic 2.mp3Trying some miced up clips: This is just a single i5 just off the seam.
Edit, heres a pair of rhythm guitars - I'm pleased with these but I'd be curious to see what you think.
Rhythm Test.mp3
And in a mix
Rhythm Test mix.mp3
JD01 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:17 pm
Single Mic 2.mp3Trying some miced up clips: This is just a single i5 just off the seam.
Edit, heres a pair of rhythm guitars - I'm pleased with these but I'd be curious to see what you think.
Rhythm Test.mp3
And in a mix
Rhythm Test mix.mp3
Those are way better than the emulated clips.
Yep, way fuckin' better than the Blackstar too...I'm quite proud of Jdude, he's came a long way with his guitar tones...
They were never terrible by any means, but since he bought the 2x12 & new HK amp, I think his sounds are quite stellar myself...
Gibson, Fender, Ibanez, Jackson
Ceriatone, Marshall, EVH
TC Electronic, MXR, Yamaha
My music @ Reverbnation
First thing i am noticing right off the bat (aside from the obvious gooderness of the H&K) is that your guitars aren't wavering the way they used to. I found when i listened to your tracks before every different way you played would take on totally different sonic properties. Some of your songs the palm muted parts would sound mint and then when you went into straight strumming it was like someone turned on a vaccum and sucked all that tone out. Either that or like a cut and paste job that could have been done a bit better.
I stand by my assertions it was your EQ pedal on top of the blackstar tone. had to be. I see no other reason why that would be happening unless there was post EQ fuckery that was taking place.
But who cares. That's all gone now. You have one sound that i know is the same instrument going through the same amplification device all the way through the song. Consistent sounds. That is huge step in the right direction. HUGE!!
A little more dicking around with some settings and mic placements and i think you are well on your way.
JD01 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:17 pm
Single Mic 2.mp3Trying some miced up clips: This is just a single i5 just off the seam.
Edit, heres a pair of rhythm guitars - I'm pleased with these but I'd be curious to see what you think.
Rhythm Test.mp3
And in a mix
Rhythm Test mix.mp3
Those are way better than the emulated clips.
Yeah, I agree. Guess I’m still gonna have to make time for miced up recording.
OK, listened to these clips again this morning at work.
I'm genuinely really fucking happy with the last couple "Rhythm Test" and "Rhythm Test Mix"
I think they're the best tones I've captured by quite a margin actually and while I might make some small alterations and tweaks I'm certain that I've found the tone I was looking for all this time...
Not that spending 2 years fucking about with the Blackstar was valueless... I actually learned a shit load while doing it about mic placement, multiple mics, speakers, boosting, EQ and most importantly listening carefully to what is actually present in the sound.
So, anyway, thanks to all of the Tone Thread regulars who've been massively patient and helpful - particularly Greg.
Regarding the cab emulation on the H&K...
Its good, in fact, for an emulated out its really good. But now I've got decent clips with a mic I won't be able to justify using the emulated out in a mix.
The emulated out is great as a tool to work on arrangements and great as a tool for dialling stuff in once you've worked out what the difference is between the emulated tone and a proper tone with a mic. Its also really good for practising stuff quietly late at night/early morning 'cos its really not a bad tone to have in your headphones.
One thing I have noticed about emulated out signals in general - this was the same with the Blackstar - is that they are nowhere near as smooth as tones captured with a mic. They always have a slight scratchiness to them and they have much more dynamic range in what you get - its weird, the wave form you get will go from almost invisible to nearly clipping depending on your playing style - this just doesn't happen when you use a mic. Anyone know why?
JD01 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:26 am
One thing I have noticed about emulated out signals in general - this was the same with the Blackstar - is that they are nowhere near as smooth as tones captured with a mic. They always have a slight scratchiness to them and they have much more dynamic range in what you get - its weird, the wave form you get will go from almost invisible to nearly clipping depending on your playing style - this just doesn't happen when you use a mic. Anyone know why?
I would say, generally, that it's physics. In a miked recording chain you have two physical transducers converting electrical signals into soundwaves and back. There's a limit as to how quickly physical diaphragm materials in your speaker and microphone capsule can respond, also the inertia of the coil materials as they are being pulled backwards and forwards in the magnetic field results in a tiny response lag which translates as a dynamic compression. Furthermore, the energies of the different frequencies in the signal are different. High frequencies have less energy to vibrate the transducer materials so their contribution to the reproduced sound will get attenuated. Lastly, speakers and microphone diaphragms have a maximum dynamic range whereas a direct electrical signal doesn't. This again results in compression and levelling of the recorded sound.
Cheers - have you noticed the same sort of thing with your Marshall emulated out?
I do need to dial things in slightly different for emulation - but at least I know the difference now.
JD01 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:14 am
Cheers - have you noticed the same sort of thing with your Marshall emulated out?
I do need to dial things in slightly different for emulation - but at least I know the difference now.
Not so pronounced as what you're experiencing. I assume that both systems have some sort of compression circuitry added to emulate what happens with a real speaker and cab. Perhaps Marshall's system is just better.
JD01 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:14 am
Cheers - have you noticed the same sort of thing with your Marshall emulated out?
I do need to dial things in slightly different for emulation - but at least I know the difference now.
Not so pronounced as what you're experiencing. I assume that both systems have some sort of compression circuitry added to emulate what happens with a real speaker and cab. Perhaps Marshall's system is just better.
Probably - its most pronounced when palm muting. Using a mic its all good, using the emulation there's a huge jump in signal and its hard to stop it clipping.
Maybe. It sure looks like one, but I'd need to see the schematic. Many old school Laneys are sort of Marshall wannabes, but I'm not sure about that one.
Maybe. It sure looks like one, but I'd need to see the schematic. Many old school Laneys are sort of Marshall wannabes, but I'm not sure about that one.
Was just thinking that at 30W it might be marginally more usable to people that don't have a dungeon to put their cab in... although 30W won't exactly be quiet will it.
JD01 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:31 pm
Was just thinking that at 30W it might be marginally more usable to people that don't have a dungeon to put their cab in... although 30W won't exactly be quiet will it.
30 watts can be pretty loud. Marshall themselves have made low-to-medium watt "Plexi" type amps for decades. No one knows about them though.
I see no other reason why that would be happening unless there was post EQ fuckery that was taking place. 
