The Tone Thread

[Greg_L]

The 1st chord sounded like Black Sabbath.
Sounds a little phased or flanged or something when you're doing the chugga bits.
That is brutal stuff - early 70s metals etc.
The Brute, the Brutalizer
I quite liked it.

Lol. I really don't know what to do with shit like that. There is a flanger on part of it.

[Minerman]

Here's some brootalz with the JCM1987 + Tube Screamer. I don't know what I'm doing here.

Gibson Angus SG - Angus sig bridge pickup
Tube Screamer - Drive 9:00 - Volume 3:00 - Tone 10:00
Marshall JCM1987 bastardization - JCM 800 mode
Presence - 5
Bass - 6
Mid - 3.5
Treb - 6
Gain - max
Master vol - 4
PPIMV - max
Marshall 1960A 4x12 - Celestion Greenbacks
MXL R144 on axis, on grill, center - Audix i5 on axis, on grill halfway across cone
Um, about a 60/40 blend i5/r144
No FX or EQ

I absolutely love the upper mid/high end of this clip, it "bites"...It's got snarl & sounds just plain pissed off, I love it man...

For the first part Greg was on Ratt Patrol, then he became Unchained, & from there I guess he had a sip of Jdude's Kool-Aid & ended up somewhere in Hetfield-land or Metallica-ville...



I know you guys are probably tired of hearing me go on about the Marshall Origin, but I've got high hopes for that amp...Of course it ain't gonna have that amount of gain even with the boost engaged, but I really hope pushing the front end with a pedal will get it there...

I've been eyeballin' those Chandler Tube Driver pedals that originally came out in the 80's, I remember wanting one when I had my BC Rich Warlock & original Marshall Micro Stack...Even now, they're pretty pricey, & there are a lot of variations of 'em, but I've heard good things about 'em...BK Butler still builds these pedals, one at a time when ordered, for $300...Most likely I'd buy used, but you never know...


The Ibanez Tube King is supposed to be pretty close to those (I've read BK Butler designed the older, tan models), & they're not quite as expensive, so I'm looking around for an actual tube boost/od pedal...Of course, I'll have to keep looking/searching for more info...Used they go for about $125-150...


Just out of curiosity I watched a few videos of the Orange OR15 today & I was impressed...That was the amp I had picked to buy, but with a last-minute change, I ended up with the Chupacabra...While I like EL34's a lot more than EL84's, I thought the clips of the OR15 sounded great...

[Greg_L]

Haha thanks miner. I don't know how to play those 80s songs so I just winged it. The rest was dumb one finger drop D shit. I'm mainly still making sure everything works as it should on this amp. That was pretty loud and really gained up and pushed and it all held together so that's a win for me.

[Minerman]

Haha thanks miner. I don't know how to play those 80s songs so I just winged it. The rest was dumb one finger drop D shit. I'm mainly still making sure everything works as it should on this amp. That was pretty loud and really gained up and pushed and it all held together so that's a win for me.

I know that kinda music ain't your thing dude...I gotta say I really like that sound though man...

Have you messed with the Orange OR15 any dude???

[Greg_L]

Have you messed with the Orange OR15 any dude???

Not much. My Orange experience is somewhat limited to mostly the TH30 or Rockerverbs.

[Minerman]

Have you messed with the Orange OR15 any dude???

Not much. My Orange experience is somewhat limited to mostly the TH30 or Rockerverbs.

Ok dude, no biggie, I just watched a few YT vids of that amp today & it impressed me...Even though it's an EL84 amp, it just sounded great to me...

I think Lt. Bob has or had one, I remember talking with him at HR about it, but then I changed my mind at the last minute & bought the Chupa...I'd also been talking to the guy from G&R Amps about a hand-built 10w baby plexi, but backed out on that too...


Small rant here:
This has been on my mind for a few days now...Do these kids today realize how good they have it with all the technology & information at their fingertips??? I would've killed to have the shit they have now when I was a teenager...I bet my parents would've killed for me to be able to use ampsims/modelers silently at home...I know I drove my parents absolutely bat-shit crazy with my music, but they hardly said a word...

Do you remember "Guitar For The Practicing Musician"??? That was a huge deal for me, I was a subscriber for years, we'd get 4 songs a month tabbed out, & at least half the time they were songs I wasn't even remotely interested in, but I'd learn 'em anyway...Now these kids have any song they'd want tabbed out, with videos showing how it's done...It just boggles my mind how much shit is out there this day & time, but most of the kids now aren't worth a fuck at playing an instrument...

And, the recording gear we have today...I remember my bass player had a Tascam 4-track, that recorded on cassette tapes, & something like that was pretty much "un-obtainable" for most of us back then...Now, again, they've got anything they could imagine to use...

I must be gettin' old...

[rayc]

I tried guitar into PA through Reverb tank and from the Line Out into my Marshall.
I disn't think to pull out a single coil guitar - oh well.
The spring must be fairly short - well it is a PA and it would have been for vocals - as the reverb doesn't have a long tail.
Here's a quick demo. 1st phrase reverb is at nought, then at noon then three o'clock then max.
After that a few noodles to try to work out what it has to offer.

reverbtank.mp3

[Greg_L]

I tried guitar into PA through Reverb tank and from the Line Out into my Marshall.
I disn't think to pull out a single coil guitar - oh well.
The spring must be fairly short - well it is a PA and it would have been for vocals - as the reverb doesn't have a long tail.
Here's a quick demo. 1st phrase reverb is at nought, then at noon then three o'clock then max.
After that a few noodles to try to work out what it has to offer.
reverbtank.mp3

That's not that bad to me. I like it. Not an all the time kind of thing, but it's pretty cool.

[Greg_L]

Do these kids today realize how good they have it with all the technology & information at their fingertips???

I don't know, but are they doing any better because of it? Besides the freak youtube shredder...kid music is still dumb.

[rayc]

Yeah,
I agree.
Not something I'd be inclined to use often, if at all BUT as I can't sell the thing for the cost of a decent spring reverb pedal I'll keep it.
It's what the MEL9 pedal needs too so that's a bonus.

[JD01]

Here's some brootalz with the JCM1987 + Tube Screamer. I don't know what I'm doing here.

Gibson Angus SG - Angus sig bridge pickup
Tube Screamer - Drive 9:00 - Volume 3:00 - Tone 10:00
Marshall JCM1987 bastardization - JCM 800 mode
Presence - 5
Bass - 6
Mid - 3.5
Treb - 6
Gain - max
Master vol - 4
PPIMV - max
Marshall 1960A 4x12 - Celestion Greenbacks
MXL R144 on axis, on grill, center - Audix i5 on axis, on grill halfway across cone
Um, about a 60/40 blend i5/r144
No FX or EQ

brootalz.mp3

Bloody Hell, Greg! If 80s metal is what you're going for you've pulled it off perfectly!
I know its not a tone you'd use much, if at all, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with it for what it is.

I bet if you rolled back the gain and made it a tiny bit darker you'd have the Bad Religion tone that I really like.

Is it common to mod a Marshall in this way or is it relatively unique?

[JD01]

I've been eyeballin' those Chandler Tube Driver pedals that originally came out in the 80's

Careful you don't fall down the vintage pedal rabbit hole, Miner! There's almost certainly a drive pedal or boost about now for about 50 quid that's even better!

[JD01]

I tried guitar into PA through Reverb tank and from the Line Out into my Marshall.
I disn't think to pull out a single coil guitar - oh well.
The spring must be fairly short - well it is a PA and it would have been for vocals - as the reverb doesn't have a long tail.
Here's a quick demo. 1st phrase reverb is at nought, then at noon then three o'clock then max.
After that a few noodles to try to work out what it has to offer.
reverbtank.mp3

That sounds like a pretty good Spring reverb to me, genuinely authentic sounding. You could do a lot worse than that.
Is there any way that you could just stick that board in the FX loop of your amp and effectively use it as a reverb pedal?

[rayc]

That sounds like a pretty good Spring reverb to me, genuinely authentic sounding. You could do a lot worse than that.
Is there any way that you could just stick that board in the FX loop of your amp and effectively use it as a reverb pedal?

James, there's no0 FX loop in this old beast. I'll have to do what I did this arvo but taht's not difficult.

[JD01]

Do these kids today realize how good they have it with all the technology & information at their fingertips???

I don't know, but are they doing any better because of it? Besides the freak youtube shredder...kid music is still dumb.

I think kids today area really lucky to have all of the gear and opportunities at their fingertips, particularly recording... it would have been amazing when I was younger to have been able to afford to record, but I couldn't have even afforded the most basic setup in the 90s. The setup that I have now - Mic, interface, Reaper is in the realm of burger flipping money which I could have stretched to as a kid.

On being able to learn stuff quickly, there's now heaps of musicians all over the internet than can play like 80s shredders that are effectively self taught. I never had guitar lessons as a kid, but I would have found all the information available invaluable!

The quality of cheap instruments, the quality of cheap recording gear and the tuition/information available has really lowered the cost barrier or learning to be good at music.

[Greg_L]

Bloody Hell, Greg! If 80s metal is what you're going for you've pulled it off perfectly!
I know its not a tone you'd use much, if at all, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with it for what it is.

I bet if you rolled back the gain and made it a tiny bit darker you'd have the Bad Religion tone that I really like.

Haha yeah to my untrained ear it seemed kind of more early Metallica than early Ratt. I don't know much about either but I think it's more thrash than spandex. That was max gain from the amp plus a speck of dirt and boost from the Screamer so I could back it all off some and see what happens. If I'd used a V30 it'd probably be much tighter and even more thrashy. Greenbacks are probably the squishiest speakers ever for this kind of sound.

Is it common to mod a Marshall in this way or is it relatively unique?

It's kind of both. I surely didn't invent anything. Turning a Plexi into a cascaded gain amp is as old as me, but I did the first two gain stages in reverse order from what's typical and put it on a switch which is not that common. But it is literally how the JCM 800s were born. A JCM 800 is basically just a cascaded Plexi with a master volume. There are some dudes that turn these things into "Van Halen" or "Randy Rhoads" amps, but then that's all they end up being able to do. Mine's able to still be normal.

[JD01]

Bloody Hell, Greg! If 80s metal is what you're going for you've pulled it off perfectly!
I know its not a tone you'd use much, if at all, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with it for what it is.

I bet if you rolled back the gain and made it a tiny bit darker you'd have the Bad Religion tone that I really like.

Haha yeah to my untrained ear it seemed kind of more early Metallica than early Ratt. I don't know much about either but I think it's more thrash than spandex. That was max gain from the amp plus a speck of dirt and boost from the Screamer so I could back it all off some and see what happens. If I'd used a V30 it'd probably be much tighter and even more thrashy. Greenbacks are probably the squishiest speakers ever for this kind of sound.

Is it common to mod a Marshall in this way or is it relatively unique?

It's kind of both. I surely didn't invent anything. Turning a Plexi into a cascaded gain amp is as old as me, but I did the first two gain stages in reverse order from what's typical and put it on a switch which is not that common. But it is literally how the JCM 800s were born. A JCM 800 is basically just a cascaded Plexi with a master volume. There are some dudes that turn these things into "Van Halen" or "Randy Rhoads" amps, but then that's all they end up being able to do. Mine's able to still be normal.

Yeah - when you were doing some of that riffing I was immediately thinking "Ride The Lightning" tone.

You should contact Marshall and explain what you've done - if its fairly unique they'd probably be interested (or horrified)

[Greg_L]

Yeah - when you were doing some of that riffing I was immediately thinking "Ride The Lightning" tone.

You should contact Marshall and explain what you've done - if its fairly unique they'd probably be interested (or horrified)

Lol. Yeah they'd be like "congratulations, you figured out what we came up with in 1975". All I did was put it on a switch, and while I'm proud of my modest work, that alone isn't that remarkable. If Marshall had any interest in listening to their user base they'd have done this forever ago...and probably better. Really, there are only two amps that most people want from Marshall - Plexis and single channel JCM 800s. They are the foundation on which all Marshall tone is built. I merged what I think are the best bits of both into one.

[JD01]

Yeah - when you were doing some of that riffing I was immediately thinking "Ride The Lightning" tone.

You should contact Marshall and explain what you've done - if its fairly unique they'd probably be interested (or horrified)

Lol. Yeah they'd be like "congratulations, you figured out what we came up with in 1975". All I did was put it on a switch, and while I'm proud of my modest work, that alone isn't that remarkable. If Marshall had any interest in listening to their user base they'd have done this forever ago...and probably better. Really, there are only two amps that most people want from Marshall - Plexis and single channel JCM 800s. They are the foundation on which all Marshall tone is built. I merged what I think are the best bits of both into one.

I wish Marshall would "modernise" a bit. I'd love a Plexi with a clean channel, a master volume and emulated out at about 25W. Mini-jube is pretty close.

Basically, I think I'd like the character of a JTM 45 with the versatility of a H&K.... for under a thousand quid.

[Greg_L]

I wish Marshall would "modernise" a bit. I'd love a Plexi with a clean channel, a master volume and emulated out at about 25W. Mini-jube is pretty close.

Basically, I think I'd like the character of a JTM 45 with the versatility of a H&K.... for under a thousand quid.

Lol. You definitely do not want anything like a JTM45.

Marshall has made low watt "Plexis" forever. Go look at a 1973x, 1974x, 2061x...18-20w Plexis. They're out there and no one buys them. Why? Because people think they want a Plexi but they really don't. They want an 800 and a master volume and even more drive. And they want it dirt cheap. The "Plexi" sound that everyone thinks they want only works as a 50 or 100w amp pumping out 120+ db. You just can't replicate that kind of sound with micro watts. Plexis are hard to deal with, even the little watt versions, and no one wants that kind of headache anymore. They want crutches - channels, effects loops, power scaling, emulations, all of it takes away from an amp.

Marshall is stuck between nostalgia and the modern world. They can't please everyone or anyone. When they modernize, it falls flat because there is so much competition out there. When they stick to what they know, it's great, but tastes have moved away from that for the most part. They're just like Gibson. Gibson is being pulled apart by people that only want the classics, and people yelling at them to modernize. Do you keep your core base happy? Or do you try to get new people to buy your shit? I don't know. It's hard to do both. I'm a fan of both Gibson and Marshall, but neither of them do anything new that interests me. They both blew their wads in the 60s and 70s as far as I'm concerned.