The Tone Thread

[Minerman]

So here's a quicky I just did just fucking around. Three sections each, Plexi then pull the pot to engage JCM 800 mode. You can tell when it happens.
First section - Plexi ch vol 4 - JCM 800 gain 4
Second section - Plexi ch vol 7 - JCM 800 gain 7
Third section - Plexi ch vol 10 - JCM 800 gain 10

Gibson Les Paul Custom - Bare Knuckles Riff Raff bridge p/u
Marshall 1987/2204
Presence - 5
Bass - 6
Mid - 6
Treb - 6
Master vol - 7
PPIMV - 10
Marshall 1960B 4x12 - Celestion G12-65
Senn MD421 on axis, on grill, dustcap/cone + Shure SM57 on axis, on grill, halfway to edge
Both mics equal blend
No EQ or FX in DAW

Lemme know what you think.

Greg's Bastard JCM 1987...Greg's Bastard SLP 800???

Dunno what you're gonna call it, but I like it dude, I think it sounds pretty good in this clip, especially the gained-up parts...

I had an idea about the 2x12 cabs a day or two ago...I'd been looking at those 2061 style cabs, & Sour Mash has 'em for like $350 each, shipped...The dimensions are like 26" x 27" x 12", which is almost as big as the 4x12's I have...So those cheap Valvestate & MG 4x12's are basically the same size, but I could buy 2 of 'em used for abour $350...I could probably replace the speaker baffles in those cabs to house 2 speakers instead of 4 pretty easily...I'm sure they're made of mdf, but I don't think it'd really matter for my use...What say ye Tonetards???

[Greg_L]

Greg's Bastard JCM 1987...Greg's Bastard SLP 800???

Dunno what you're gonna call it, but I like it dude, I think it sounds pretty good in this clip, especially the gained-up parts...

Ha JCM 1987 seems like a good name. Simple, effective, I like it. Thanks. I'll have some more clips soon as I re-learn this thing.

I had an idea about the 2x12 cabs a day or two ago...I'd been looking at those 2061 style cabs, & Sour Mash has 'em for like $350 each, shipped...The dimensions are like 26" x 27" x 12", which is almost as big as the 4x12's I have...So those cheap Valvestate & MG 4x12's are basically the same size, but I could buy 2 of 'em used for abour $350...I could probably replace the speaker baffles in those cabs to house 2 speakers instead of 4 pretty easily...I'm sure they're made of mdf, but I don't think it'd really matter for my use...What say ye Tonetards???

That seems like a pretty good idea to me if you can find those cabs for cheap.

[Minerman]

Ha JCM 1987 seems like a good name. Simple, effective, I like it. Thanks. I'll have some more clips soon as I re-learn this thing.

Lol...I think it's fuckin' cool you can go from one to the other with the flick of a switch, & the best part is both sides sound good...Fuckin' epic dude...Now you need to figure out how to make it work with a footswitch, & start offering to mod people's amps like the guy at the Marshall forum...

That seems like a pretty good idea to me if you can find those cabs for cheap.

There are all kinds of 'em on GC used site, most are around $150-ish, but I'd have to pick a couple out that aren't beat to hell...There have even been a few pop up on the local CL from time to time...A sheet of plywood for the baffle would only be about $40-50...

[Greg_L]

Lol...I think it's fuckin' cool you can go from one to the other with the flick of a switch, & the best part is both sides sound good...Fuckin' epic dude...Now you need to figure out how to make it work with a footswitch, & start offering to mod people's amps like the guy at the Marshall forum...

Lol. No. I'm not hacking up anyone's amps. But...you know my buddy Shawn? He just fucking bought a 100w Plexi reissue that's been converted to a Metro turret board with Mercury transformers for fucking 800 bucks! 800! Fuck! Fuuuuuuck I wish I had found that first.

Anyway, I'll see it tomorrow. He wants me to reinstall the fx loop. I guess I could do that. I'm bringing the bastard JCM 1987 over there too, so if he likes the JCM mod he might want it on that Plexi. They're the same amp.

There are all kinds of 'em on GC used site, most are around $150-ish, but I'd have to pick a couple out that aren't beat to hell...There have even been a few pop up on the local CL from time to time...A sheet of plywood for the baffle would only be about $40-50...

Do it. That'd probably be a bad ass 2x12! Are you giving up on the iso box?

[Minerman]

Lol. No. I'm not hacking up anyone's amps. But...you know my buddy Shawn? He just fucking bought a 100w Plexi reissue that's been converted to a Metro turret board with Mercury transformers for fucking 800 bucks! 800! Fuck! Fuuuuuuck I wish I had found that first.

Anyway, I'll see it tomorrow. He wants me to reinstall the fx loop. I guess I could do that. I'm bringing the bastard JCM 1987 over there too, so if he likes the JCM mod he might want it on that Plexi. They're the same amp.

Wow man, seems like you Texas guys find good deals on all kinds of shit man...I truly live at the ass-end of the whole world...

Keep us updated dude...

Do it. That'd probably be a bad ass 2x12! Are you giving up on the iso box?

I'm not really giving up on the ISO cab, but I really don't think the end result is as good as just a cab pushed with a little volume dude...The low-end loss is really a pisser to be honest, I know it really just comes down to dialing the amp & mic in a little differently, but it just feels totally alien to me, when I know how to fix that in an instant with a regular cab/mic...

I'm still leaning toward the tones I got with the Chupa, that were actually recorded at fairly low-volume levels...I know that amp was the key to those tones I loved so much, but I'm still shooting for similar tones with what I have...Just like I've mentioned 100 times, everything's a trade-off/compromise, & when you compromise on one thing, something else will suffer because of it...I'm still finding "the spot" where it's all acceptable for me dude...I've finally realized the tone-chase is a never-ending quest, it just gets better/worse depending on my expectations....

[Greg_L]

Wow man, seems like you Texas guys find good deals on all kinds of shit man...I truly live at the ass-end of the whole world...

Keep us updated dude...

This is a big city dude. And Austin and Dallas are just a few hours away. Lots of music here and lots of people playing music. That means lots of gear for sale. My man Shawn is CONSTANTLY patrolling ebay and/or Craigslist. Just last weekend at our gig he had a dude come to the show so they could make a guitar trade deal. Shawn has a BB King Lucille in real nice shape that has was gonna trade for a 70s LP Custom. The Lucille is probably about a $3k guitar. The guy also brought a late 90s LP Classic. The guy said it was a 70s Custom, but it was actually an 83 and pretty beat. The Classic was pretty rough too. Not a good trade so Shawn passed. I told him to offer the Lucille for both guitars but the guy passed on that. So no deal. But that kind of shit happens all the time. I usually stumble on to my deals out of dumb luck or just chance, but Shawn and Chris are always on the lookout. Any time I go to my shredder buddy Chris's apartment his computer browser is on Reverb.com. Not porn, not news, not youtube, just used gear listings. Every single time. He's always looking for something.

I'm not really giving up on the ISO cab, but I really don't think the end result is as good as just a cab pushed with a little volume dude...The low-end loss is really a pisser to be honest, I know it really just comes down to dialing the amp & mic in a little differently, but it just feels totally alien to me, when I know how to fix that in an instant with a regular cab/mic...

I'm still leaning toward the tones I got with the Chupa, that were actually recorded at fairly low-volume levels...I know that amp was the key to those tones I loved so much, but I'm still shooting for similar tones with what I have...Just like I've mentioned 100 times, everything's a trade-off/compromise, & when you compromise on one thing, something else will suffer because of it...I'm still finding "the spot" where it's all acceptable for me dude...I've finally realized the tone-chase is a never-ending quest, it just gets better/worse depending on my expectations....

Man, really, you need to get another Chupa before you do anything else.

[rayc]

The Mutant
EXCELLENT.
You've the best of all worlds without having a whiff of modern metal about it.
Well done.

[JD01]

Okay fuckos, here's the first run-through with the mega-bastard 1987/2204 Plexi 800. If you've followed along with this latest round of mods starting HERE you'll see wtf I'm talking about.

JCMutant?
Sounds great, Greg! You must be well happy with that.
The 1st run through might be a little mild for me.
The 2nd and 3rd are both brilliant!
The 4th and 5th sound great too, pretty high gain, but they're still really useable good tones, they've got a bit of an early Metallica thing!
The 6th sounds good and I bet its fun to play but it seems like its starting to flub out a bit.
That last one might sound really good with a boost in front to tighten up the bottom - it would be proper metal then though!

[Greg_L]

The Mutant
EXCELLENT.
You've the best of all worlds without having a whiff of modern metal about it.
Well done.

Thanks Ray. Still figuring it out but it's getting there.

JCMutant?
Sounds great, Greg! You must be well happy with that.
The 1st run through might be a little mild for me.
The 2nd and 3rd are both brilliant!
The 4th and 5th sound great too, pretty high gain, but they're still really useable good tones, they've got a bit of an early Metallica thing!
The 6th sounds good and I bet its fun to play but it seems like its starting to flub out a bit.
That last one might sound really good with a boost in front to tighten up the bottom - it would be proper metal then though!

Thanks dude. One thing I've noticed about it that's exactly like the real 800 is that the bass needs to be rolled back a bit as the gain goes maxxed out. I suppose a drawback about this setup is it's a shared EQ. Not that I'll ever be walking up to it and pulling the switch mid song or anything. But on the flip side, I never go full-gain anyway. I don't ever go past like 7-8 on the real 800. At that point I'd rather stay there and use a clean boost to keep it tighter. I do occasionally go full-on 10 with the Plexis though, but they're one less gain stage. I'm encouraged that the sound doesn't fall apart though. It does get a little flubby at max, but I've never heard an amp that doesn't. I think I can roll that flub out or tighten it with a boost. That sounds like a good test for today.

[JD01]

Cool, try a few different boosts with that crazy hi-gain tone at the end.

[Greg_L]

Cool, try a few different boosts with that crazy hi-gain tone at the end.

It's already a billion times better than it was when the cascade was the other way around. This version has a much smoother character to it, even at ridiculous levels. And it's more gain than I'd ever use. I'll try some boost pedals today.

[Greg_L]

Keep us updated dude...

Well, if it seemed to good to be true, that's because it is. It's a Marshall SLP reissue with a Metro board and PPIMV and Mercury OT for sure....that doesn't work worth a fuck. First off, it's not even a Super Lead anymore. The previous owner built it into a Super Bass. Secondly, it's a pretty shoddy wiring/soldering clusterfuck. Thirdly, it squeals and is totally unusable at anything above talking volume. It's got pretty much the most god-awful oscillation there ever was. The low inputs don't work. It's just a mess that needs one thing fixed just to see if the next thing is good or bad. It basically needs to be gone through from the guitar inputs to the speaker jacks and we aint doing all that. It's being returned. I knew $800 was too good to be true.

[Minerman]

Well, if it seemed to good to be true, that's because it is. It's a Marshall SLP reissue with a Metro board and PPIMV and Mercury OT for sure....that doesn't work worth a fuck. First off, it's not even a Super Lead anymore. The previous owner built it into a Super Bass. Secondly, it's a pretty shoddy wiring/soldering clusterfuck. Thirdly, it squeals and is totally unusable at anything above talking volume. It's got pretty much the most god-awful oscillation there ever was. The low inputs don't work. It's just a mess that needs one thing fixed just to see if the next thing is good or bad. It basically needs to be gone through from the guitar inputs to the speaker jacks and we aint doing all that. It's being returned. I knew $800 was too good to be true.

Well dude, that sucks but at least it can be returned to get the $$$ back...

This is a big reason I've always leery of buying a used amp, because you never know if somebody has butchered it, & I actually wouldn't know what to look for anyway...

[Greg_L]

Well dude, that sucks but at least it can be returned to get the $$$ back...

This is a big reason I've always leery of buying a used amp, because you never know if somebody has butchered it, & I actually wouldn't know what to look for anyway...

Well he/we knew it was modded. But for 800 bucks he felt it was worth the risk. We immediately called the guy back and told him it was fucked up. He obviously never had it past TV volume, which is lame, so it's possible he never knew that it would freak out if you turned it up. How he ended up wiring it as a Super Bass is anyone's guess. Maybe that was intentional, or maybe he just followed any layout he could find, but it aint no Super Lead. As soon as we turned it on, the channel volumes low, I was like that aint right. It was thick and muddy and dark and that aint the bright channel of a Super Lead. So he agreed to give my buddy his money back. No harm no foul. At least I got to play amp detective a little bit.

[rayc]

SOLID STATE TONE...
Not really. I've had this Australian built 250 watt power mixers for almost 30 years.
I think I paid about 300 for it back then. I used it as a PA for quite a few things and ran school discos with it as well.
I'd put it away and forgotten about it until recently - THEN I tried to sell it for $200 and had no takers.
I opened it up to take snaps for advertising and discovered it has a reverb tank inside, (I'd though the reverb was less old school).
I recalled using the thing to record a guitar track with reverb back in the 80s.
I've decided that since no one wanted to buy it I'll set it up and use the instrument in & line out for some spring reverb fun.
Well, I hope to do.

mixer.jpg

[Greg_L]

Haha awesome Ray. That'll be the biggest, most powerful Reverb pedal ever. You can probably drive the input to your amp pretty damn hard too.

[JD01]

That's cool!

I've actually started to think that I might like the cheap mixer technique going before my AI. Not for any tonal reason, just 'cos I could do with a 3rd input.

[Minerman]

Ray: Very cool man, that looks like the pa we used in my first band...The guy who owned it & most of the gear in general passed away a few years ago...I'd thought about contacting his wife/widow to see if she'd wanna sell any of it, but I didn't wanna make any waves in any way at all...

In other news, I rolled the 'ol Bastard cab out of the closet, put the speakers back in it, & I'm gonna start using it again...I still plan on using the ISO cab, but will keep the T-75 & a condenser mic in it, basically for scratch tracks/late night playing/practicing...I've yet to try the Mini Jubilee through that cab, it sounds pretty good with those speakers in the ISO cab, so it should sound good, maybe even better with a proper cab...

[Greg_L]

Here's some brootalz with the JCM1987 + Tube Screamer. I don't know what I'm doing here.

Gibson Angus SG - Angus sig bridge pickup
Tube Screamer - Drive 9:00 - Volume 3:00 - Tone 10:00
Marshall JCM1987 bastardization - JCM 800 mode
Presence - 5
Bass - 6
Mid - 3.5
Treb - 6
Gain - max
Master vol - 4
PPIMV - max
Marshall 1960A 4x12 - Celestion Greenbacks
MXL R144 on axis, on grill, center - Audix i5 on axis, on grill halfway across cone
Um, about a 60/40 blend i5/r144
No FX or EQ

brootalz.mp3

[rayc]

The 1st chord sounded like Black Sabbath.
Sounds a little phased or flanged or something when you're doing the chugga bits.
That is brutal stuff - early 70s metals etc.
The Brute, the Brutalizer
I quite liked it.