The Tone Thread

[JD01]

I use the same BDI21 as you, Ray. You can see it sitting on the end of my board in my NWSD pic.

[rayc]

I use the same BDI21 as you, Ray. You can see it sitting on the end of my board in my NWSD pic.

That's the one - cheap and cheerful.

[JD01]

I use the same BDI21 as you, Ray. You can see it sitting on the end of my board in my NWSD pic.

That's the one - cheap and cheerful.

Seems to work pretty well though. Best 25 quid a tight fisted home recorder can spend

[Bubba]

Can you guys explain to me what advantage a DI box has over just plugging into the interface? In my experience DI boxes are mainly used for converting hi Z signals into Lo Z signals in order to send them down long PA cables with no losses. I honestly can't see the point of using one outside of that application.

[JD01]

Can you guys explain to me what advantage a DI box has over just plugging into the interface? In my experience DI boxes are mainly used for converting hi Z signals into Lo Z signals in order to send them down long PA cables with no losses. I honestly can't see the point of using one outside of that application.

Don't think its a DI box as such - its called a bass amp modeller driver. It also has an XLR out (which I've never used) so I guess in bypass mode you could use it to take a dry signal from your guitar even and use the normal out from the pedal as the input into your amp.

[Bubba]

Can you guys explain to me what advantage a DI box has over just plugging into the interface? In my experience DI boxes are mainly used for converting hi Z signals into Lo Z signals in order to send them down long PA cables with no losses. I honestly can't see the point of using one outside of that application.

Don't think its a DI box as such - its called a bass amp modeller driver. It also has an XLR out (which I've never used) so I guess in bypass mode you could use it to take a dry signal from your guitar even and use the normal out from the pedal as the input into your amp.

Right. It looks like the answer to a question I would never ask, myself.

Ray does get good bass tones, though.

[Greg_L]

Greg mics his speaker and uses what he records, but I don't know much more than that. I am curious as to what you chaps are doing to get what you use & are happy with.

I've only fairly recently started running my bass through my guitar gear. And that's mainly been from laziness. The upside is that it sounds fucking awesome, to me. The laziness comes from not having a bass amp. I used to go to my band's practice space and use our Orange, Ampeg, Fender, etc bass gear. Then on a whim I tried my bass through the clean channel of my Marshall JVM, and voila, it sounded pretty much exactly like the usual dirty/bright bass sounds I go for anyway. Win! I just don't do it very loud. Bass will melt down a guitar speaker. Would it be easier to go direct or use a sim? Sure. But I don't roll like that.

[rayc]

[/quote]
I've only fairly recently started running my bass through my guitar gear. And that's mainly been from laziness. The upside is that it sounds fucking awesome, to me. .. on a whim I tried my bass through the clean channel of my Marshall JVM, and voila, it sounded pretty much exactly like the usual dirty/bright bass sounds I go for anyway. Win! I just don't do it very loud. Bass will melt down a guitar speaker. Would it be easier to go direct or use a sim? Sure. But I don't roll like that.
[/quote]

Interesting. I assume a lot of noon bassits don't have bass gear so would go DI or try a guitar amp. I've played through a friends good guitar amp, (a Peavey of Yamaha was cool/good in 75), in 75 and freaked because there was a lot of rattling noise in the result. It ended up being a piece of metal on a bench behind the amp but the worry about paying for repairs put me off the idea from that point.
You certainly get ace bass tone Greg.

[Greg_L]

Interesting. I assume a lot of noon bassits don't have bass gear so would go DI or try a guitar amp. I've played through a friends good guitar amp, (a Peavey of Yamaha was cool/good in 75), in 75 and freaked because there was a lot of rattling noise in the result. It ended up being a piece of metal on a bench behind the amp but the worry about paying for repairs put me off the idea from that point.
You certainly get ace bass tone Greg.

Bass will distort a guitar amp very easily. A small guitar amp with no headroom doesn't stand a chance. But the amp itself doesn't care. You can't hurt it with bass. You can very easily hurt a guitar speaker though. They're not made for that kind of low end.

I use the clean channel on my JVM because it's the cleanest thing I have, and bass still crunches it up a little bit, but in a good way.

[rayc]

Bass will distort a guitar amp very easily. A small guitar amp with no headroom doesn't stand a chance. But the amp itself doesn't care. You can't hurt it with bass. You can very easily hurt a guitar speaker though. They're not made for that kind of low end.

I use the clean channel on my JVM because it's the cleanest thing I have, and bass still crunches it up a little bit, but in a good way.

I take it I ought not run my Superbass through my Marshall 4 x 12 either.
You did say you were careful about volume with that set up.

[Greg_L]

I take it I ought not run my Superbass through my Marshall 4 x 12 either.

Sure you can. Why not? It's just an amp. A loud amp, but if the cab is rated around 120 watts or more, it's no problem. Your Marshall being a "Superbass" doesn't mean it pumps out earthquaking low frequencies. It's as much a "bass amp" as a Fender Bassman is, and everyone knows how awesome those are for guitar.

But if you run your bass through your Superbass, then you'll want to attenuate it. Bass through that amp at full power into that cab can make short work of melting those guitar speakers.

You did say you were careful about volume with that set up.

Yes, only with bass though. I don't track my bass real loud.

[Bubba]

I take it I ought not run my Superbass through my Marshall 4 x 12 either.

Sure you can. Why not? It's just an amp. A loud amp, but if the cab is rated around 120 watts or more, it's no problem. Your Marshall being a "Superbass" doesn't mean it pumps out earthquaking low frequencies. It's as much a "bass amp" as a Fender Bassman is, and everyone knows how awesome those are for guitar.

But if you run your bass through your Superbass, then you'll want to attenuate it. Bass through that amp at full power into that cab can make short work of melting those guitar speakers.

You did say you were careful about volume with that set up.

Yes, only with bass though. I don't track my bass real loud.

A 300 watt cab full of G12-75s will cope, and sounds great. Our bassplayer has used my TSL with his bass cab before now, on the clean channel and it sounds pretty awesome.

[Greg_L]

A 300 watt cab full of G12-75s will cope, and sounds great. Our bassplayer has used my TSL with his bass cab before now, on the clean channel and it sounds pretty awesome.

Yeah I bet it does. I like a dirty-ish bass sound. I know a guy that uses a fucking Mesa Dual Rectifier and Mesa V30 cab for bass live, and it sounds gnarly. That rig is better for bass than it is guitar.

The thing is volume though. Amps with master volumes give you a lot more flexibility. You can run bass through them at lower volumes and not overheat the speaker coils or crease the cone. For a Superbass like Ray was talking about, it doesn't really have too much volume control. It's a "Plexi" circuit for bass that doesn't break up too easily. That could potentially be a lot of low end clean headroom bass punch pounding on wimpy guitar speakers.

[Greg_L]

Another new tune I've been working on, made a few more small changes, mainly to try and make the bass a tiny bit less clacky.

Still working on this, have a riffs to add and havne't written all the lyrics yet, shouldnt be a fun one... its kind of a pop song!

Bass still seems pretty clacky and light to me. I get what you're going for, it's just too much high end.

[Greg_L]

Just starting to put this together, but they say if a guy and his guitar can stand alone, it makes for a good arrangement. Guess I'll see if this one makes the cut. Got some lyrics from Mike's brother in law, who was wondering if we could use a few lines. The lyrics are all his, the arrangement and the vocal melody are Mike and I. He's got more I'm interested in working with.

This thing is in Em, is dark, and has a big chunk of plate reverb and a shelf at about 100K on the LPC.
2X2 about 88% panned for now. Middle position, all knobs at 8. Amp is Gain 6, treble 10:00, bass 10:00, middle 1:00. Master 5, JCM900/1960B
Vocal is U87 through an LA610 MKII - 7k -1.5db 100k - 1.5 db, Comp at 5 (centered) Both Gains at 6. Parallel compression and tons of Vintage Plate.

Still lots of work to do and things to add to this one, just imagine you hit the solo buttons on what's here.

That by itself sounds okay to me.

One thing I'd suggest trying is to not have the rhythms identical. Like...even if they're playing the same thing, do one on just the bridge pickup, and one on the neck. You'll get a little more tonal variety that way.

[rammer24]

One thing I'd suggest trying is to not have the rhythms identical. Like...even if they're playing the same thing, do one on just the bridge pickup, and one on the neck. You'll get a little more tonal variety that way.

That's what I do with rythms. Though, I just tracked a couple of songs where I didn't like the neck pick-up for those particular songs, so I used bridge for both tracks, but different cab IR's for each.

[Greg_L]

That's what I do with rythms. Though, I just tracked a couple of songs where I didn't like the neck pick-up for those particular songs, so I used bridge for both tracks, but different cab IR's for each.

I always change something between rhythm tracks. It could be anything, but it's something. Different guitar, different amp, different speaker, something. I never do two rhythm tracks with the same setup.

[rammer24]

I always change something between rhythm tracks. It could be anything, but it's something. Different guitar, different amp, different speaker, something. I never do two rhythm tracks with the same setup.

Me too. I guess in the true sense of "stereo", it should be 2 identical guitars, amps, etc....But I find that if I do that and play too precisely, I'll actually get split second parts that cancel each other other out as if it's the same track out of phase with itself. So, I always change something, too.

[rammer24]

How in the fuck...and who...changed the name of the Tone Thread?

[rammer24]

It just changed back. Very weird. I swear it was called "LPC and Vocals" for a few minutes. I'm not losing it. Well, I might be, but I'm still right about this.