The Tone Thread

[JD01]

I can afford to experiment.

All I do is fucking experiment - I feel like I've been working on the same 10-12 tracks for years (actually I really have been working on them for years) as I'm experimenting with different tones. But, fuck me, I'm probably more bored of playing them than you guys are of listening to them.

[Greg_L]

Cool, guys. I'll experiment. Maybe the reason I don't use higher gain sounds is because I'm using a neck pick-up. I actually like hard rock, pretty high gain guitar. So, maybe using the neck all the time is holding me back from going as heavy as I'd like sometimes.

Well, that's the good thing about the amount of money I pay for studio time. I can afford to experiment.

I've always thought it was odd that you use a neck pickup so much for your music. But it never sounds bad to me, so who cares? I've always just assumed you like it for more fullness at modest crunchy gain settings. I usually dislike most neck pickup rhythm sounds, but yours are always clear and articulate, so no bother. I think I'll be reamping your tracks today, so we'll see how that neck pickup sounds through my amps.

[rammer24]

Cool, I'm curious to see how that will sound. Yeah, I use the neck for the reasons I explained above. That particular Alice tune needed it, and I stuck with it ever since. But before that, I never did use the neck for anything but clean Strat type sounds. I'm going to definitely go back to at least trying bridge on both sides. I'll probably re-track the right side guitar for the clip I posted since it's not even close to being a song yet.

[Minerman]

I can afford to experiment.

All I do is fucking experiment - I feel like I've been working on the same 10-12 tracks for years (actually I really have been working on them for years) as I'm experimenting with different tones. But, fuck me, I'm probably more bored of playing them than you guys are of listening to them.

Experimenting is how I learned what I know now about mic'ing a amp guys...It's took me a few years of trial/error to be the tone-tard that I am, with a lot of emphasis on the error side...

While I do admit I can pull off some pretty decent tones, I still have a lot to learn, & will always be learning...It's impossible for someone to know everything...Sure, I can know as much/more than others about certain things, but I'll never truly learn everything, & there is always room for improvement, no matter what...

I need to mention all you guys here too, as without you guys taking the time to listen/comment/suggest, I wouldn't be able to do half the shit I do now recording-wise...

[JD01]

All I do is fucking experiment - I feel like I've been working on the same 10-12 tracks for years (actually I really have been working on them for years) as I'm experimenting with different tones. But, fuck me, I'm probably more bored of playing them than you guys are of listening to them.

Experimenting is how I learned what I know now about mic'ing a amp guys...It's took me a few years of trial/error to be the tone-tard that I am, with a lot of emphasis on the error side...

While I do admit I can pull off some pretty decent tones, I still have a lot to learn, & will always be learning...It's impossible for someone to know everything...Sure, I can know as much/more than others about certain things, but I'll never truly learn everything, & there is always room for improvement, no matter what...

I need to mention all you guys here too, as without you guys taking the time to listen/comment/suggest, I wouldn't be able to do half the shit I do now recording-wise...

Yeah, of course you just keep learning and learning. I do finally feel though that the tones I'm getting now are good enough for the songs to be finished (finally) so I'll be gradually rounding off this set of songs and not returning to them... which is nice.

[rammer24]

Hey, if you guys got literally 1 minute, I re-tracked the first verse and chorus of my clip using the bridge pick-up on my Gibson.

So, here we have the same thing on the left (Epiphone Bridge), but now it's the Gibson bridge pick-up on the right, rather than the neck pick-up.

Noticeable difference?

Purple Stain bridge.mp3

[rammer24]

Just my own opinion.....It has more bite, but I expected it to make the neck pick-up clips sound dull in comparison. I'm surprised that the neck pick-up clip isn't that bad compared to the bridge. Just different.

[Minerman]

I just listened to both clips back-to-back, & to me, there's just a slight difference...You gotta remember I'm about half deaf from noise levels where I worked...

Both fit in the song/mix pretty good Rami, for me, either/or would work...

I don't use the neck p'up on any of my guitars for rhythm, but I do use it on some leads, especially slide...

I do know you track guitars tight as fuck, impressive being able to double-track that tight...

[rammer24]

Thanx Miner.

You know, I think I'm going to leave this with the neck pick-up only because it's already done and the difference isn't THAT big.

But from now on, I think I'll use the bridge as often as possible, depending on the song, etc....I do like the extra bite.

[JD01]

I slightly prefer the tone of the bridge, but I think in the context of the track the neck sounds better - just sounds a tiny bit fuller. Its tiny though.
Maybe if you do go for dual bridge pickups in future you'll have to tweak the tone slightly.

[rammer24]

I slightly prefer the tone of the bridge, but I think in the context of the track the neck sounds better - just sounds a tiny bit fuller. Its tiny though.
Maybe if you do go for dual bridge pickups in future you'll have to tweak the tone slightly.

Good point. I threw the bridge track into the same amp set up I had for the neck track. It might need its own adjustments.

Thanx guys. I really appreciate the help.

[Greg_L]

I do like the bridge p/u better. It's a little tighter, little crisper, but like the other guys said, the difference is negligible.

[rammer24]

I do like the bridge p/u better. It's a little tighter, little crisper, but like the other guys said, the difference is negligible.

I agree with you and everyone else. It's a little better, but that might be offset by the fact that the next guitar track is going to be Gibson bridge. So, the variety in the tones might work in my favor. It's the old "It sounds better by itself, but it might serve the tune better to have the other sound". Anyway, this song is in its infancy. Lots of time to change things.

Thanx again, guys.

[SweetDan]

How good/bad/ugly is the tone of the guitars by themselves and in this scratch mix? (No critiques of the drums, please... I suck at drums, and this is the "guitar tone" thread, eh?)

http://eastofcleveland.com/m/se_idea_guitarBus_nofx.mp3 - guitar bus only, no f/x
http://eastofcleveland.com/m/se_idea_guitarBus_fx.mp3 - guitar bus only, with f/x
http://eastofcleveland.com/m/se_idea_fullRoughMix.mp3 - full (scratch) mix, for context

The guitars are all a Tele clone. The amp is a Vox AD30VT "valvetronix", an older generation modeling amp. All mic'd up with a Blue Spark condenser, right on the grille, pointing straight in, and positioned halfway between the center and edge of the speaker cone. Center & left guitars are bridge p/u, running through an AC15 model. Right guitar is neck p/u, running through a Blackface Twin model.

The f/x added in the second clip are just some (mostly subtractive) EQ on each of the guitars, plus a send from the guitar bus to the channel I'm using for "glue" reverb across the entire mix.

[SweetDan]

Never mind...answered my own question after listing to some of your clips. Mine sounds like it's got a blanket over it or something; the guitars just aren't clear enough. Back to work then!

[Minerman]

Never mind...answered my own question after listing to some of your clips. Mine sounds like it's got a blanket over it or something; the guitars just aren't clear enough. Back to work then!

Hey dude, these clips ain't as bad as you think, if your guitar tone is pretty bright/clear in the room, a simple move of the mic will make a huge difference...

Not sure how long you've been recording guitar amps (so I don't mean to insult you by telling you things you already know), but you said the mic is about halfway between the edge & cone, right??? Just remember, the closer you get to the center/cone of the speaker, the brighter it will be...And of course, the closer to the edge, the darker/less bright it'll be...

Mic'ing a guitar amp is really an art in itself & it can take a while of trial/error until you find "that" spot with your mic...Trust me, I've been there, & done that...You're on the right path dude, & there are a lot of members here that can give some really valuable tips/tricks/info that will help you along as you go...

I'd just about bet that if you move your mic toward the center of the speaker a tad, it'd brighten up & have clarity...Just remember moving the mic just a hair can make a huge difference, so it might not take a big placement change to get where you wanna be...

Give it a shot & post the results, I'm sure the guys here will help ya...

[rammer24]

Yeah, nobody meant to to ignore you, I'm sure Dan. Sometimes it takes a few hours for anyone to get around to listening to anything

Believe me, I'm friends with all these guys and I'm lucky if I get 2 people to download any of my clips.

I agree with Miner. The clips are pretty good really. The advice he gave you is gold.

[Greg_L]

Never mind...answered my own question after listing to some of your clips. Mine sounds like it's got a blanket over it or something; the guitars just aren't clear enough. Back to work then!

You know, I saw those clips early this morning and couldn't listen at that time and just forgot to come back to it. Sorry bout that. I hope you didn't feel ignored. We don't do that.

Anyway, they're not that bad, and yeah, listen to minerman. Try to brighten them up with mic placement. I'll add that you need to turn up. I can hear your pick hitting the string being picked up by the mic. That tells me our amp is not loud enough. Louder amps tend to sound better. Speakers sound better when they're doing some work. You don't have to crank it, but get it at least louder than your pick hitting the strings.

[JD01]

Theres something I'm not happy with about this latest one, just sounds a bit "messy" this is first takes, but I don't think its shonky playing - the playing isn't that bad. I think I just haven't worked out how to dial in this PRS yet. The PRS is the crunch rhythm on the right after the intro and it continues throughout the song on that side. Just sounds a bit shit. I'd like to try and start using it as I like the way it plays and I'm coaxing some good noises out of it.

I'll re-take the entire track when I've got a good plan for the tones.

[JD01]

How good/bad/ugly is the tone of the guitars by themselves and in this scratch mix? (No critiques of the drums, please... I suck at drums, and this is the "guitar tone" thread, eh?)

http://eastofcleveland.com/m/se_idea_guitarBus_nofx.mp3 - guitar bus only, no f/x
http://eastofcleveland.com/m/se_idea_guitarBus_fx.mp3 - guitar bus only, with f/x
http://eastofcleveland.com/m/se_idea_fullRoughMix.mp3 - full (scratch) mix, for context

The guitars are all a Tele clone. The amp is a Vox AD30VT "valvetronix", an older generation modeling amp. All mic'd up with a Blue Spark condenser, right on the grille, pointing straight in, and positioned halfway between the center and edge of the speaker cone. Center & left guitars are bridge p/u, running through an AC15 model. Right guitar is neck p/u, running through a Blackface Twin model.

The f/x added in the second clip are just some (mostly subtractive) EQ on each of the guitars, plus a send from the guitar bus to the channel I'm using for "glue" reverb across the entire mix.

Well, they're a fuck load better than the first few things I posted in The Tone Thread (I was using a Marshall Jackhammer into a Line6 GearBox sim).

I agree with Miner for a start, try a brighter mic placement as they are quite dark. I suffer from the muffled "speaker in a sleeping bag tone" pretty often too. Try the sorting the mic placement first though, see if you can brighten it up like that. If you try and change too many things at once its just confusing.