The Tone Thread

[Minerman]

Not my tones (obviously) & thought it'd be more appropriate to post this here instead of the other thread...I think the controls on both amps are set the same, but can't tell 100%...Looks like the eq on the Mini 800 are all on "5", but can't tell about the Mini Jubilee...Same guitar, cab/speaker & mic, only difference is the amp AFAIK...

[BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Y2Ld1sWaSQ[/BBvideo]

I have my opinion, but I'd like to know what the rest of the ToneTards think about this comparison...

[Greg_L]

I have my opinion, but I'd like to know what the rest of the ToneTards think about this comparison...

I really liked the clean of the Jubilee better than the 800. But who gives a fuck about clean with Marshalls? The 800 dirty tones were better to me. Shocker, right? The Jubilee was a little too dark and middy. The 800 was smoother in the mids and had a bright top end but it wasn't spiky.

Neither amp got a fair shake though through his camera mic setup.

I don't know if I ever told any of yall this, but I really like JCM 800s.

[Minerman]

I really liked the clean of the Jubilee better than the 800. But who gives a fuck about clean with Marshalls? The 800 dirty tones were better to me. Shocker, right? The Jubilee was a little too dark and middy. The 800 was smoother in the mids and had a bright top end but it wasn't spiky.

Neither amp got a fair shake though through his camera mic setup.

I don't know if I ever told any of yall this, but I really like JCM 800s.

That wasn't his camera mic, he used a condenser on the cab, he says so around 4:50 or so...Doesn't matter really though because the Mini 800's volume was on about 2 or 3, if I'm seeing that correctly, & I don't know where the Mini 800's sweet spot is, but I do know for a fact the Mini Jubilee's ain't at 2 or 3, that's just barely enough juice to even tickle a V30...

So, my opinion is both amps sounded alike to me, in fact a whole lot alike...But, I don't think he had either dialed in for any particular sound, I think he just kinda set 'em even for comparison...That's good for comparing 'em though, a lot better than one guy I saw comparing the Mini DSL to the Mini Jubilee, he had some funky-ass settings where it was about impossible to judge how either really sounded IMO...

I've wanted a JCM since the days at HR when I was just starting to use real amps, & I've had GAS like a motherfucker for this little amp until I heard this comparison video...It just made me take a step back, part the fog of GAS that's blinding me, & think about all this...

I'm really curious to hear some more user-made clips & reviews from guys that really put the Mini 800 through it's paces to see what it will really do...

I've got some more thoughts/ideas about these amps too (which might surprise you), but I'm gonna wait & see what the rest of the gang here thinks...

[Greg_L]

That wasn't his camera mic, he used a condenser on the cab, he says so around 4:50 or so...Doesn't matter really though because the Mini 800's volume was on about 2 or 3, if I'm seeing that correctly, & I don't know where the Mini 800's sweet spot is, but I do know for a fact the Mini Jubilee's ain't at 2 or 3, that's just barely enough juice to even tickle a V30...

So, my opinion is both amps sounded alike to me, in fact a whole lot alike...But, I don't think he had either dialed in for any particular sound, I think he just kinda set 'em even for comparison...That's good for comparing 'em though, a lot better than one guy I saw comparing the Mini DSL to the Mini Jubilee, he had some funky-ass settings where it was about impossible to judge how either really sounded IMO...

I've wanted a JCM since the days at HR when I was just starting to use real amps, & I've had GAS like a motherfucker for this little amp until I heard this comparison video...It just made me take a step back, part the fog of GAS that's blinding me, & think about all this...

I'm really curious to hear some more user-made clips & reviews from guys that really put the Mini 800 through it's paces to see what it will really do...

I've got some more thoughts/ideas about these amps too (which might surprise you), but I'm gonna wait & see what the rest of the gang here thinks...

I'd suggest you not make any decisions based off that video. That video was one of the worse demos I've ever seen IMO. If he mic'd the cab, then he needs to spend some time in here and learn how to mic stuff. I think that guy did a terrible job of showcasing those amps.

[Greg_L]

[mention]Minerman[/mention] Red alert.....I'm looking at detailed gut shots online.....there are mysterious diodes and IC chips throughout the new studio 800s. Not a big deal if it sounds good, but why? Why are they there? Original and reissue 2203s have none of that stuff. I understand diode rectifiers at the power transformer, but why are they everywhere? And the transformers are tiny, so how much voltage dropping and rectifying does the damn thing need? And what are the IC chips doing? There's no channel switching. No gain boosts. No nothing, so what is that stuff doing? Makes me wonder.

[Minerman]

I'd suggest you not make any decisions based off that video. That video was one of the worse demos I've ever seen IMO. If he mic'd the cab, then he needs to spend some time in here and learn how to mic stuff. I think that guy did a terrible job of showcasing those amps.

I thought the amps sounded almost identical in this video dude, I'm gonna say that's how he had the amps set up/eq'd, combined with a condenser mic at low volumes...I can't really tell what the Mini Jube's settings are, but it looks like the Mini 800's eq knobs are all on "5", the gain dimed, & the volume on about "2"...I'm gonna assume the Mini Jube was set the same...

Setting them both like that is fine just for comparison, but I'd never set my Mini Jube up like that, so it would sound totally different...I'm gonna assume the Mini 800 would sound a lot different too with the eq tweaked & the master up to where the power section gets involved...

@Minerman Red alert.....I'm looking at detailed gut shots online.....there are mysterious diodes and IC chips throughout the new studio 800s. Not a big deal if it sounds good, but why? Why are they there? Original and reissue 2203s have none of that stuff. I understand diode rectifiers at the power transformer, but why are they everywhere? And the transformers are tiny, so how much voltage dropping and rectifying does the damn thing need? And what are the IC chips doing? There's no channel switching. No gain boosts. No nothing, so what is that stuff doing? Makes me wonder.

I posted some gutshots in the other thread & knew the transformers were small...No choke either, but my Mini Jube has one...

On all the other stuff mentioned, I have no idea Greg...That's like me asking to have a look at a hot-rodded race car engine because I know nothing about that stuff...lol

So, I don't really care if it's not "authentic" to an original 2203/2204 circuit, but I do care if it sounds like one though...I've heard some more clips using loadboxes/cab sims & thought it sounded pretty damn good, but I still wanna hear a properly mic'd clip, with the master up past "5"...

[Minerman]

[mention]Greg_L[/mention] The thing is for me, in the video I posted, the Mini Jubilee sounded almost identical to the Mini 800...That makes me wonder if there's gonna be that much difference between those amps, & if I'm about to flop $1300 on an amp I basically already have...

That's what I was talking about in my post late last night...

• Yeah, I've wanted an 800 since I jumped on this crazy train years ago at HR...

• Yeah, I'm a Marshall fanboy...

• Yeah, they've finally released a low-watt version of the amp I've wanted for years now...

• Yeah, it's a Mini 800 with EL34's...

But, $1300 is expensive for a little amp, matter of fact, that's goddamned fuckin' expensive for a little amp...While I still like the little 1w DSL I had, I still have a bitter taste in my mouth because of what I paid for that little thing, & what I ended up getting for it...I know that was a "have-to" thing, & I really had to choose between actually eating or having that amp, but still...

The little rig I have now is about as close to perfect as I've had since switching to real amps...Both the Chupacabra & the Mini Jubilee combined with the little attenuator, put out the almost perfect SPL for getting recorded tones I'm happy with...They both push just the right amount of air for me, & let me do it at reasonable noise levels so the cops aren't here on a regular basis...

So, the Mini 800 ticks a lot of boxes for me, but I'm still not convinced it'll do anything that's different/better than the Mini Jubilee that I already have...

[liv_rong]

Considering it’s single channel it is pretty pricey especially considering it’s a major manufacturer, not some boutique company hand building small runs. If you consider what my head cost, it really is expensive. But, supply and demand. They know everyone wants these.

[Greg_L]

I thought the amps sounded almost identical in this video dude,

Not to me. They sound very different to me. I like the 800 better, but neither is better or worse. They're just different.

[Minerman]

Considering it’s single channel it is pretty pricey especially considering it’s a major manufacturer, not some boutique company hand building small runs. If you consider what my head cost, it really is expensive. But, supply and demand. They know everyone wants these.

Yeah Liv, they are expensive man, but this is what folks have screamed they wanted for years now...

I'd kinda like to have 'em all, it'd be sorta like having all of the 1w...IMO it would be a cool but pricey little collection...But, if I splurge for a Mini 800, I'll be a little over halfway there, the Mini DSL is only like $500...

I thought the amps sounded almost identical in this video dude,

Not to me. They sound very different to me. I like the 800 better, but neither is better or worse. They're just different.

Well, let me re-phrase that dude, they sounded really similar to me...I can hear the difference in the character & texture of each amp's gain (I'm terrible at explaining sounds btw), if that makes any sense...

I wanna hear some more clips/reviews from regular joe dudes like us, but of course, I still want a Mini 800...

I've read there are popping issues with the fx loop of these amps, so there may be a recall/fix for this batch & a different batch where that's addressed...This happened with the DSL40CR & I think with the DSL20H...

I'll have to wait regardless, but at least they're not a limited thing like the 1w amps were...I was gonna order the JCM 1w one morning before work, but waited until I got home later that day, & they were already gone...

[Greg_L]

Well, let me re-phrase that dude, they sounded really similar to me...I can hear the difference in the character & texture of each amp's gain (I'm terrible at explaining sounds btw), if that makes any sense...

The Jubilee is going to have more gain for sure. My buddy's Jubilee has way more gain than my 2203 or 2204. Way more.

[Greg_L]

Bass tone? Sure why not....

This is my new Fender P/J Special Deluxe thing
Marshall JVM410 - Clean Channel Orange Mode
All tone controls - 5
Gain - 5
Channel Vol - 3
Master Vol - 3
Marshall 1960B 4x12 - Celestion G12H30
MXL R144 dead center, 1" off grill
No EQ or FX in DAW

Just the Jazz bridge pickup

bass J pickup.mp3

Jazz + P-Bass pickups full blend

bass P+J pickup.mp3

Just the P pickup

bass P pickup.mp3

[WhiskeyJack]

Fucking greg you beat me to it. I was going to start posting bass tones thing now that i can have everything set up all the time. Early birds always get the worm.

I really like that you used a guitar amp and cab to do this exercise. It takes alot of weird meat out of an otherwise simple beast. genius really.

the tones are about exactly what i would expect. The j is little less ballsy, smooth clear a nice woody 'plonk' and bite but doesn't put out like you want it to. When i ever i use a pick on a J bass i just want there to be a bit more than what it is and i find myself hitting the strings harder. YMMV The P bass plonks and growls along doing it's thing. that clip seems a little more woolly than maybe it should be sounding but nothing inherently wrong with it.

I sort of prefer the second clip really. The mix of the two, it's like a boosted version of the J pick up with a smack of the p bass growl.

I love that bass man. I think it was a pretty smart purchase and versatile little rock and roll bass. You can kill a bunch a birds with that one stone.

[Greg_L]

Fucking greg you beat me to it. I was going to start posting bass tones thing now that i can have everything set up all the time. Early birds always get the worm.

I really like that you used a guitar amp and cab to do this exercise. It takes alot of weird meat out of an otherwise simple beast. genius really.

the tones are about exactly what i would expect. The j is little less ballsy, smooth clear a nice woody 'plonk' and bite but doesn't put out like you want it to. When i ever i use a pick on a J bass i just want there to be a bit more than what it is and i find myself hitting the strings harder. YMMV The P bass plonks and growls along doing it's thing. that clip seems a little more woolly than maybe it should be sounding but nothing inherently wrong with it.

I sort of prefer the second clip really. The mix of the two, it's like a boosted version of the J pick up with a smack of the p bass growl.

I love that bass man. I think it was a pretty smart purchase and versatile little rock and roll bass. You can kill a bunch a birds with that one stone.

Thanks hombre. I'm still working on the setup - getting the angles on the split P pickups right and the output balance in order between the P and the J. It's a process. I did end up having to set the P pickups with the classic "rooftop" shape to match the radius. The low E was really booming and the higher strings were kind of weak. The A and the D didn't pop like I like them too. But it's all good now. The rooftop worked. I could probably lower the low E side of the pickup a little more. Like this:


The J pickup sits on a block of spongey foam and I couldn't get it close enough to the strings to match the P pickup's output. I took it out and repositioned the foam. Now they're pretty much dead on balanced.

I'm very pleased with the bass and the tonez. I really like the P pickups the best. It sounds savage through the big ass Ampeg SVT 8x10 bass rig at the practice space. So killer. Through the guitar amps though, the J pickup is a little cleaner. I like em all.

[WhiskeyJack]

Fucking greg you beat me to it. I was going to start posting bass tones thing now that i can have everything set up all the time. Early birds always get the worm.

I really like that you used a guitar amp and cab to do this exercise. It takes alot of weird meat out of an otherwise simple beast. genius really.

the tones are about exactly what i would expect. The j is little less ballsy, smooth clear a nice woody 'plonk' and bite but doesn't put out like you want it to. When i ever i use a pick on a J bass i just want there to be a bit more than what it is and i find myself hitting the strings harder. YMMV The P bass plonks and growls along doing it's thing. that clip seems a little more woolly than maybe it should be sounding but nothing inherently wrong with it.

I sort of prefer the second clip really. The mix of the two, it's like a boosted version of the J pick up with a smack of the p bass growl.

I love that bass man. I think it was a pretty smart purchase and versatile little rock and roll bass. You can kill a bunch a birds with that one stone.

Thanks hombre. I'm still working on the setup - getting the angles on the split P pickups right and the output balance in order between the P and the J. It's a process. I did end up having to set the P pickups with the classic "rooftop" shape to match the radius. The low E was really booming and the higher strings were kind of weak. The A and the D didn't pop like I like them too. But it's all good now. The rooftop worked. I could probably lower the low E side of the pickup a little more. Like this:


The J pickup sits on a block of spongey foam and I couldn't get it close enough to the strings to match the P pickup's output. I took it out and repositioned the foam. Now they're pretty much dead on balanced.

I'm very pleased with the bass and the tonez. I really like the P pickups the best. It sounds savage through the big ass Ampeg SVT 8x10 bass rig at the practice space. So killer. Through the guitar amps though, the J pickup is a little cleaner. I like em all.

My P Pick ups were like that out of the box. Exactly as you stated. Like Exact. I had to do a tiny bit of tweaking to heights and angles as well and it helped. i could have done a better job as the D and G are still a little lifeless.

I can only imagine how good that sounds in an SVT.

I really really like a J pick ups tone it just sounds so good just never enough output. I suppose if you had a reallygood boost or maybe a bit more of a transparent overdrive you could really get something screaming out of those J's but by the itme you are done all that you may as well just have some P's? I guess it all depends on the song and how hard you are going to go at.

I may be mistaken but are the J pick ups are sort of ideal for real busy walking riffs. the lower output kind of vibe cleans everything up and takes out the mud where as the P is more of a fill in the blanks straight forward rock and roll thing. that is sort of how it was explained to me many moons ago.

[Greg_L]

I may be mistaken but are the J pick ups are sort of ideal for real busy walking riffs. the lower output kind of vibe cleans everything up and takes out the mud where as the P is more of a fill in the blanks straight forward rock and roll thing. that is sort of how it was explained to me many moons ago.

That's how I hear it. Your fancy shredder bassists mostly seem to prefer J-Basses. The J pickups are good for intricate details and note definition.

If you just want brute power, the P Bass has a much better sound for that sort of thing.

I've always been a P-Bass guy. Always. This bass I got has the best of both worlds as far as I'm concerned. P looks and sound, but easy playability with the J neck and a touch of the J sound with the bridge pickup. It's a truly a P/J.

[Minerman]

Bass tone? Sure why not....

This is my new Fender P/J Special Deluxe thing
Marshall JVM410 - Clean Channel Orange Mode
All tone controls - 5
Gain - 5
Channel Vol - 3
Master Vol - 3
Marshall 1960B 4x12 - Celestion G12H30
MXL R144 dead center, 1" off grill
No EQ or FX in DAW

Cool Greg, everybody thinks that the bass tone doesn't matter, but it really does...Not only does it help hold the bottom down, it can also affect how the guitars are perceived sometimes...

I think it sounds good, top pick for me is the bridge but only because it has a little more clarity...I'm sure any of 'em would be pretty easy to fit into a mix...


I actually bought a 5-string bass a couple months ago, but didn't think it was that big of a deal, it's not like a new Les Paul or Marshall...I almost sent it back, but with some tweaking/adjusting of the truss rod/saddles, it's ok now...Before I did that, it was un-playable, which pissed me off to no end, but I ended up keeping it because I got it for quite a bit less than the list price...It does that "clanky" metal/hard rock bass thing (IE: Alice In Chains) pretty well...It's a whole different animal than my 4-string pawn shop special, but I expected that...Seems to be a pretty decent bass, but only after doing some work to it...This is the only "blind" buy where I've had to do very much to an instrument, so I guess I've been lucky so far...

Jackson 01.jpg

I knew Greg would love it because it's pointy...

[Greg_L]

I knew Greg would love it because it's pointy...

Lol! I'm torn, actually. This hits two of my own pet peeves. It's a little bit pointy, but I think that 5th string is worse!


But hey, if you like it, rock on. Good job fixing it up to be playable.

[WhiskeyJack]

All my favorite records are have one thing in common. The perfect marriage of a kick ass basstone with the kick and guitars. Ive never ever accomplished it and may actually be laregrly done in mastering but the point is a good bassist and bass tone is glue for a good record. They need the tone to hold up the guitarists and they need to lock in on the drummers kick. Or be Les Claypool. If one or god forbid both elements arent there a song just goes to shit. Ive never been hard on bassists, yea sure they are their own oddball breed. But a 'good' bassist is the glue that binds the guitars and drums of any act together.

Anyone will have a hard time changing my mind on that one.

[rayc]

Greg,
Excellent clips. I lean towards the P sample though. More of everything to me ears.
I've not tinkered with my pickups since about 1975.