The Tone Thread

[Greg_L]

Dude can wank for sure. That's some serious shredding.

He's part of the reason we can do what we do in these stores. We're not some dumb mall-metal kids one-finger chording drop-D tuned BC Riches. We can play and we know our gear. Well, he can play, I know the gear. They leave us alone to just get down with whatever we want. The only problem we ever have is me on floor model drums. I'll get us kicked out for kicking out the jams in the middle of the store.

[Greg_L]

Here's the split beck pickup on my guitar going into the Dry Martini pedal and my Bandit, being picked up by the CM25 mic.

Remember I was saying about using my tremolo as a clean boost? After about 30s, I click it on - huge jump in volume. Think I play about with some bridge pickup later too.

Not bad. Weird how that tremolo acts as a volume boost.

[miroslav]

So...now I gotta decide how best to set up this speaker shootout.
........................

Let's see how this goes....I don't want to get too nuts with it, but I would like to be able to sit back and really compare each speaker by listening to the recorded results. There would be at least 6 different speakers.

OK...finally finished the speaker shootout tonight.
A real PITA swapping out 7 speakers in the same cab...but the results are interesting, and in my case, worth it.
With all the different speaker tracks in the DAW...all lined up...I am also able to combine speakers to see which two sound best for my 212 cabs...which is worth the price of admission alone, IMO...but of course, there are also the individual speakers to compare.

I kinda thought about doing a few more, since I have several other models...but I'm tired, and I got speakers all over the studio, and 3 empty cabs lying on the floor, and heads...and I just want it to be over.
Speakers were: WGS Reaper 55, WGS Invader, WGS British Lead, WGS Retro 30, Weber Chicago (earlier model, Lead 80 clone), Celestion G12H30 and Celestion Greenback.

So I did like I said...recorded about 6 different things, chords, strums, etc, once each for neck and bridge pickup...going DI into the DAW.
Then I re-amped that and played the track back through each of the speakers after swapping them out in the same cab...that way each speaker got the identical source.

Now I just have to decide how to break up the tracks and turn them into sound clips for comparison...I may even do some 2-speaker combinations if I don't lose my mind half way through.
There will be a whole bunch of clips to compare speakers, with neck and bridge pups, playing different things.
Oh...almost forgot, for each of the above, I also did two amp settings, one amp channel was "kinda" clean-ish, but not pristine clean, so there's some hair on it, but that was the amp's clean channel....and then I had the other channel set for more harder distortion.
So you get multiple flavors from the amp, from the guitar pups, and the playing...for every speaker.

Like I said...my mind is fried, and I just couldn't do any more speakers....maybe some other time...I'll keep the project in the DAW, and I know all my settings, everything was written down and measured for position...etc.

I'll need some time to cut up the sound clips before posting...but the shit portion is done.

[JD01]

Here's the split beck pickup on my guitar going into the Dry Martini pedal and my Bandit, being picked up by the CM25 mic.

Remember I was saying about using my tremolo as a clean boost? After about 30s, I click it on - huge jump in volume. Think I play about with some bridge pickup later too.

Not bad. Weird how that tremolo acts as a volume boost.

Yeah, I seem to be able to get a half decent sound out of that old amp. It needs a good clean though, the pots are really scratchy and the volume drops in an out, the TonePort is similar too.. I think the volume boost would be less obvious with a tube amp and would work more like a gain increase.

[Greg_L]

I think the volume boost would be less obvious with a tube amp and would work more like a gain increase.

Well that explains it. I thought it was a tube amp. Yeah, if it's solid state, then the volume increase instead of gain increase makes sense.

[JD01]

I think the volume boost would be less obvious with a tube amp and would work more like a gain increase.

Well that explains it. I thought it was a tube amp. Yeah, if it's solid state, then the volume increase instead of gain increase makes sense.

Yeah - I'm just surprised that a tremolo gives such a clean boost.

[JD01]

Been trying to get good loud tones with the CM25 mic this evening. It doesn't work.

Just sounds really harsh. I'm getting a pretty good tone "in the room" with the Dry Martini into the Bandit. Got the gain right down on the UX2 too and it's still close to clipping. Bugger. thought this would be a handy way of getting good tones in the week. Looks like I'm gonna have to travel with my Blackstar

[Greg_L]

Been trying to get good loud tones with the CM25 mic this evening. It doesn't work.

Just sounds really harsh. I'm getting a pretty good tone "in the room" with the Dry Martini into the Bandit. Got the gain right down on the UX2 too and it's still close to clipping. Bugger. thought this would be a handy way of getting good tones in the week. Looks like I'm gonna have to travel with my Blackstar

So use it out in the room.

I know for me, putting a LDC on my cabs is impossible. I'm clipping that thing damn near immediately.

Dynamics and ribbons...those are the sweet shit for guitar cabs.

[JD01]

Been trying to get good loud tones with the CM25 mic this evening. It doesn't work.

Just sounds really harsh. I'm getting a pretty good tone "in the room" with the Dry Martini into the Bandit. Got the gain right down on the UX2 too and it's still close to clipping. Bugger. thought this would be a handy way of getting good tones in the week. Looks like I'm gonna have to travel with my Blackstar

So use it out in the room.

I know for me, putting a LDC on my cabs is impossible. I'm clipping that thing damn near immediately.

Dynamics and ribbons...those are the sweet shit for guitar cabs.

Yeah, ive gotta do more experiments with it. I've moved it around a fair bit... an old boxing boot makes a pretty convenient mic holder!

[Bubba]

JDOD, you'd be better with the AKG if you're working close. I've seen more than one PA guy use them on cabs.

[JD01]

JDOD, you'd be better with the AKG if you're working close. I've seen more than one PA guy use them on cabs.

Yeah, the AKG is back in Wales. I'm bringing all my gear with me next week though so I can experiment with some stuff. I'm getting something I like the sound of in the room at the moment so I want to capture it.

[Greg_L]

OK...finally finished the speaker shootout tonight.
A real PITA swapping out 7 speakers in the same cab...but the results are interesting, and in my case, worth it.
With all the different speaker tracks in the DAW...all lined up...I am also able to combine speakers to see which two sound best for my 212 cabs...which is worth the price of admission alone, IMO...but of course, there are also the individual speakers to compare.

I kinda thought about doing a few more, since I have several other models...but I'm tired, and I got speakers all over the studio, and 3 empty cabs lying on the floor, and heads...and I just want it to be over.
Speakers were: WGS Reaper 55, WGS Invader, WGS British Lead, WGS Retro 30, Weber Chicago (earlier model, Lead 80 clone), Celestion G12H30 and Celestion Greenback.

So I did like I said...recorded about 6 different things, chords, strums, etc, once each for neck and bridge pickup...going DI into the DAW.
Then I re-amped that and played the track back through each of the speakers after swapping them out in the same cab...that way each speaker got the identical source.

Now I just have to decide how to break up the tracks and turn them into sound clips for comparison...I may even do some 2-speaker combinations if I don't lose my mind half way through.
There will be a whole bunch of clips to compare speakers, with neck and bridge pups, playing different things.
Oh...almost forgot, for each of the above, I also did two amp settings, one amp channel was "kinda" clean-ish, but not pristine clean, so there's some hair on it, but that was the amp's clean channel....and then I had the other channel set for more harder distortion.
So you get multiple flavors from the amp, from the guitar pups, and the playing...for every speaker.

Like I said...my mind is fried, and I just couldn't do any more speakers....maybe some other time...I'll keep the project in the DAW, and I know all my settings, everything was written down and measured for position...etc.

I'll need some time to cut up the sound clips before posting...but the shit portion is done.

Damn, how'd I miss this?

Sounds cool. Can't wait to hear it.

[Minerman]

Your buddy Chris can fuckin' play dude...You've told me about him a few times, he's the Randy Rhoads freak, right???

[Greg_L]

Your buddy Chris can fuckin' play dude...You've told me about him a few times, he's the Randy Rhoads freak, right???

Yup.

[Minerman]

I thought that was the guy you'd told me about before...Definitely got some skills there...

[Greg_L]

I was fucking around today with some stupid high gain, and thought maybe this could be useful to someone.

For the tone thread, usually I just put up one mic and record some clips for fun. I think they're usually pretty good and can work in a mix. What I'm about to show you is how I record "keeper" guitar tracks - tracks that go into a real serious mix that I seriously want to have sound good. I find this method works very well for getting full clear tracks that don't need a bunch of EQ because the tracks themselves are the EQ. The way this works is you use two mics on one speaker, or they can be on different speakers, it doesn't matter. What does matter is that they're in phase, and you use one as the bright mic and one as the dark mic. I think it works better on one speaker, but it does work well if you want the characteristics of different speakers blended into one. I'm not reinventing the wheel here, this is pretty basic stuff, but if you've never tried it for yourself I'm gonna give you some tracks to play with.

Gibson Les Paul Custom - Bare Knuckle Riff Raff bridge pickup
Marshall JVM 410 - OD1 channel, Red mode
Bass - 6
Mid - 6
Treb - 4
Gain - 3
Resonance - 0
Presence - 4
Channel vol - 5
Master Vol - 5
Marshall 1960A 4x12 - Celestion G12-65
Shure SM57 on axis on grill center of cone, Senn e609 on axis on grill edge of cone
No EQ or FX in DAW

So first up the SM57 center of speaker cone

And the Senn e609 at the edge of cone

And finally, two mics, one speaker, 50/50 blend

So if you want, download the individual tracks, bring them into your DAW, and juggle the levels between the two to hear how it EQs itself.

[JD01]

Greg,

Dunno how I missed these, must have read the thread when I wasn't at a computer so it was marked as read and I forgot to go back to it.

These clips sound great - I actually love the bright clip, that would do me on its own but sounds great with the blend. I've had a bit of a fuck about with them now too, my favourite is with the having the dark clip dialed back a few db.

The tone on these clips is great though - I think they're some of the best tones you've ever posted... I'm starting to get pickup envy.

I'd love to get tones like this... at a volume that wouldn't kill my neighbours or make me deaf.

Do you know anyone with a Kemper? You could profile your tones and I bet they'd be pretty popular - particularly if you profiled dark and bright mic placement for people to blend for themselves.

[JD01]

More acoustic tones, mellow picking, bit of strumming, bass comes in then an acoustic solo.

Really happy with the strummy tones, not so sure about the intro picking.

Getting into this acoustic recording though.

[ido1957]

I was fucking around today with some stupid high gain, and thought maybe this could be useful to someone.

For the tone thread, usually I just put up one mic and record some clips for fun. I think they're usually pretty good and can work in a mix. What I'm about to show you is how I record "keeper" guitar tracks - tracks that go into a real serious mix that I seriously want to have sound good. I find this method works very well for getting full clear tracks that don't need a bunch of EQ because the tracks themselves are the EQ. The way this works is you use two mics on one speaker, or they can be on different speakers, it doesn't matter. What does matter is that they're in phase, and you use one as the bright mic and one as the dark mic. I think it works better on one speaker, but it does work well if you want the characteristics of different speakers blended into one. I'm not reinventing the wheel here, this is pretty basic stuff, but if you've never tried it for yourself I'm gonna give you some tracks to play with.

Gibson Les Paul Custom - Bare Knuckle Riff Raff bridge pickup
Marshall JVM 410 - OD1 channel, Red mode
Bass - 6
Mid - 6
Treb - 4
Gain - 3
Resonance - 0
Presence - 4
Channel vol - 5
Master Vol - 5
Marshall 1960A 4x12 - Celestion G12-65
Shure SM57 on axis on grill center of cone, Senn e609 on axis on grill edge of cone
No EQ or FX in DAW

So first up the SM57 center of speaker cone

And the Senn e609 at the edge of cone

And finally, two mics, one speaker, 50/50 blend

So if you want, download the individual tracks, bring them into your DAW, and juggle the levels between the two to hear how it EQs itself.

I can really hear the difference that placement makes and the impact of the blending. Very helpful post Greg. It give me an idea how to eq without actually using an eq. I need more bass? Just turn up mic a. Less bass? Turn down mic a. Mix it according to what sounds best in the context of the song.

[Greg_L]

Thanks guys. Where is everyone in this thread anyway?

I don't know if that's "the best tone I ever made" or anything (it isn't lol) but it does show what I'm always talking about with juggling a bright and dark mic placement.

It takes more setup time and the phase relationship has to be dead on via physical placement, or micro-sliding in the DAW, but it works well. To me, when combined, it's like using one mic that can capture the entire speaker up close. You get all of the sound a speaker can make summed into one track.