The Tone Thread

[Greg_L]

Last Sunday I was asked to track a band in their rehearsal space so they can get some tunes out to secure summer gigs. All tunes were done live, close mic'd and in single takes. I wanted to post this for a couple of reasons.
1. I love this guitar tone. Tele into a deluxe with not too many pedals clouding it up.
2. The band is pretty good and tight and I was very pleased with how well each track pops.
3. I didn't realize the other singer had one of those harmonizer deals until I got home and started mixing. You really get an idea of how bad these things can be when you hear them isolated. Sadly, they don't have enough time to retrack those tunes so for now they will stay. Next time, I'll split the signal before it goes into that monstrosity and I'll do a side by side comparison. As with many things that are available for us to use, some things just really aren't necessary. Especially since the other singer is really good.

Anyway, let me know what you guys think (if you're so inclined).


07 Put It Where You Want It 4-1.mp3


And JDude has asked for a sample of the Vox AC15 (the red one I posted in the new gear thread). Here's an original tune from rehearsal. I'm playing slide on a Strat, half cocked wah, a Keeley compressor and the Jeckyll and Hyde pedal that I use all of the time.



04 Simple Love Simple LifeTake 3.mp3

They both sound like good live recordings to me. You got nice sounds and separation. Love the slide tone. Very good.

[Bill L]

Thanks guys.

Miner, that's not me singing. The guy that sings (and plays bass) wrote it and based it on a Mark Knopfler Emmylou Harris tune [BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ey9kdeOjT3o[/BBvideo]

I joined this band over 2 years ago assuming that with his clout (he's a local classic rock DJ that has been working there for about 30 years) we'd be playing places that I normally wouldn't have access to. That has not panned out fully (although we have done a couple of gigs I would have never gotten). I'm getting ready to jump ship as it's not been the professional atmosphere I had expected but I do like his songs and I would love to record them. He just won't let me do my thing and is insisting on doing things himself (and he should not be self producing. His ADHD is worse than mine and I'm pretty bad ). And he wants to use a Roland electric kit even though we could have done the drums on a real kit . Very frustrating to me. I'm actually thinking of having the rest of the band work with me on the backing tracks and hand it to him and say "Here, do your vocals and bass and call it a day". But that'll probably just piss him off.

So instead, I'm on a mission to redo my 25 year old tunes to really get my recording chops back and start writing and recording new originals as well. With some of the connections I've made I can probably swing opening for some National touring acts at some very cool spots around me. Thankfully, I have lots of great musician friends that are more than willing to record with me for the price of a couple of beers.

[Greg_L]

I joined this band over 2 years ago assuming that with his clout (he's a local classic rock DJ that has been working there for about 30 years) we'd be playing places that I normally wouldn't have access to.

I know a few dudes like that. There's this one band I'm friends with that brought in a local award-winning "Houston's Best" hotshot thinking it would help them out with gigs and exposure. It's done nothing. He's fucking terrible. Terrible. And me being me, I tell him so.

[Bill L]

I joined this band over 2 years ago assuming that with his clout (he's a local classic rock DJ that has been working there for about 30 years) we'd be playing places that I normally wouldn't have access to.

I know a few dudes like that. There's this one band I'm friends with that brought in a local award-winning "Houston's Best" hotshot thinking it would help them out with gigs and exposure. It's done nothing. He's fucking terrible. Terrible. And me being me, I tell him so.

In this case, I'm becoming more like you every day. I normally don't give a shit what anybody does (or thinks for that matter) but to continually swim against the tide rather than take the boat that was offered is just plain stupid, pig headed bullshit. And in the end, it's still going to sound like absolute shit. I could give you examples of the craziness but it'll just make my blood pressure go up.

[Greg_L]

In this case, I'm becoming more like you every day. I normally don't give a shit what anybody does (or thinks for that matter) but to continually swim against the tide rather than take the boat that was offered is just plain stupid, pig headed bullshit. And in the end, it's still going to sound like absolute shit. I could give you examples of the craziness but it'll just make my blood pressure go up.

Sometimes you just have to accept things as they are. But life's too short to accept bullshit when you can actually do something about it.

[Minerman]

Thanks guys.

Miner, that's not me singing. The guy that sings (and plays bass) wrote it and based it on a Mark Knopfler Emmylou Harris tune

Thanks for the info Bill...Dunno if it's intentional or not, but I really think he sounds like Knopfler, who I've always known about but the last couple months or so I've grown a new appreciation for, the guy is a great guitarist IMO...

I joined this band over 2 years ago assuming that with his clout (he's a local classic rock DJ that has been working there for about 30 years) we'd be playing places that I normally wouldn't have access to. That has not panned out fully (although we have done a couple of gigs I would have never gotten). I'm getting ready to jump ship as it's not been the professional atmosphere I had expected but I do like his songs and I would love to record them. He just won't let me do my thing and is insisting on doing things himself (and he should not be self producing. His ADHD is worse than mine and I'm pretty bad ). And he wants to use a Roland electric kit even though we could have done the drums on a real kit . Very frustrating to me. I'm actually thinking of having the rest of the band work with me on the backing tracks and hand it to him and say "Here, do your vocals and bass and call it a day". But that'll probably just piss him off.

So instead, I'm on a mission to redo my 25 year old tunes to really get my recording chops back and start writing and recording new originals as well. With some of the connections I've made I can probably swing opening for some National touring acts at some very cool spots around me. Thankfully, I have lots of great musician friends that are more than willing to record with me for the price of a couple of beers.

Wow, that shit is everywhere ain't it??? LOL...The last band I was in had issues with stuff like that, & I didn't realize until it was too late...

Hard to believe he wants to use an e-kit instead of the real thing, WTF??? I can see using samples to make the drums sound a little better if needed, but that's just insane if you ask me...You need to tell him he can record the real drums, & then convert everything over to midi if he wants...Dunno if he'd go for that, or even understand, but I'd mention it to him anyway...BTW, if the drums aren't really complicated, I could do the midi thing for you guys using some of the software I have here...It's a long & tedious process, but I'd be willing to give it a shot...Lemme know...

[Bill L]

In this case, I'm becoming more like you every day. I normally don't give a shit what anybody does (or thinks for that matter) but to continually swim against the tide rather than take the boat that was offered is just plain stupid, pig headed bullshit. And in the end, it's still going to sound like absolute shit. I could give you examples of the craziness but it'll just make my blood pressure go up.

Sometimes you just have to accept things as they are. But life's too short to accept bullshit when you can actually do something about it.

True dat! For this session we're doing tonight he still hasn't told us which songs we're going to do. Which means I'll have to bring 3 guitars (Les, Strat and Tele). And he has a Princeton (no problem here) and a Blues Jr (these always sound boxy to me). So I'm bringing my Princeton (which will sound way better) and either a Deluxe Reverb or the Vox AC 15. I'm planning on telling him to send me the stems and I'll record my parts at home and I'll send him my parts . It's not worth the 45 min drive to his house for this



I plan on drinking a lot of beer at this session.

[Bill L]

Thanks guys.

Miner, that's not me singing. The guy that sings (and plays bass) wrote it and based it on a Mark Knopfler Emmylou Harris tune

Thanks for the info Bill...Dunno if it's intentional or not, but I really think he sounds like Knopfler, who I've always known about but the last couple months or so I've grown a new appreciation for, the guy is a great guitarist IMO...

I joined this band over 2 years ago assuming that with his clout (he's a local classic rock DJ that has been working there for about 30 years) we'd be playing places that I normally wouldn't have access to. That has not panned out fully (although we have done a couple of gigs I would have never gotten). I'm getting ready to jump ship as it's not been the professional atmosphere I had expected but I do like his songs and I would love to record them. He just won't let me do my thing and is insisting on doing things himself (and he should not be self producing. His ADHD is worse than mine and I'm pretty bad ). And he wants to use a Roland electric kit even though we could have done the drums on a real kit . Very frustrating to me. I'm actually thinking of having the rest of the band work with me on the backing tracks and hand it to him and say "Here, do your vocals and bass and call it a day". But that'll probably just piss him off.

So instead, I'm on a mission to redo my 25 year old tunes to really get my recording chops back and start writing and recording new originals as well. With some of the connections I've made I can probably swing opening for some National touring acts at some very cool spots around me. Thankfully, I have lots of great musician friends that are more than willing to record with me for the price of a couple of beers.

Wow, that shit is everywhere ain't it??? LOL...The last band I was in had issues with stuff like that, & I didn't realize until it was too late...

Hard to believe he wants to use an e-kit instead of the real thing, WTF??? I can see using samples to make the drums sound a little better if needed, but that's just insane if you ask me...You need to tell him he can record the real drums, & then convert everything over to midi if he wants...Dunno if he'd go for that, or even understand, but I'd mention it to him anyway...BTW, if the drums aren't really complicated, I could do the midi thing for you guys using some of the software I have here...It's a long & tedious process, but I'd be willing to give it a shot...Lemme know...

Thanks Miner. Our drummer is really good and can do these tunes with his eyes closed (and probably with one hand tied behind his back). In some cases, we've been playing these songs for almost 2 years. He just doesn't like to listen to anyone else and when he does he doesn't really listen. I suggested to him well over a year ago to let me record the band and use that as a pre production demo that we could get to a real producer and go into a real studio and record this stuff like pros. He opted to try a live recording sessions which didn't work because everything was incredibly rushed. He wanted to do 6 songs in 8 hours (including setup and breakdown) and uses the Beatles as example that it can be done. I've tried pointing out that when The Beatles did their live sessions, they had been playing those songs at least 6 days a week, 4 sets a day for the last 6 years and that's why they were so tight. Again, doesn't listen. And to top it all off, he's the weakest link in the band. He's pitchy as a singer and as a bass player couldn't stay in the pocket if he was super glued to it. We already have hundreds of hours of recordings of these songs to bring to a producer.

And I forgot to tell you guys, he's already talking about a CD release party; for a CD that's not done; and won't be ready to be released for at least another 6 months (and that's only if we're lucky). I don't plan on having my name on a CD with caned drums when we could very easily record real drums.



Oh man, this is going to be interesting tonight.

[Minerman]

Thanks Miner. Our drummer is really good and can do these tunes with his eyes closed (and probably with one hand tied behind his back). In some cases, we've been playing these songs for almost 2 years. He just doesn't like to listen to anyone else and when he does he doesn't really listen. I suggested to him well over a year ago to let me record the band and use that as a pre production demo that we could get to a real producer and go into a real studio and record this stuff like pros. He opted to try a live recording sessions which didn't work because everything was incredibly rushed. He wanted to do 6 songs in 8 hours (including setup and breakdown) and uses the Beatles as example that it can be done. I've tried pointing out that when The Beatles did their live sessions, they had been playing those songs at least 6 days a week, 4 sets a day for the last 6 years and that's why they were so tight. Again, doesn't listen. And to top it all off, he's the weakest link in the band. He's pitchy as a singer and as a bass player couldn't stay in the pocket if he was super glued to it. We already have hundreds of hours of recordings of these songs to bring to a producer.

And I forgot to tell you guys, he's already talking about a CD release party; for a CD that's not done; and won't be ready to be released for at least another 6 months (and that's only if we're lucky). I don't plan on having my name on a CD with caned drums when we could very easily record real drums.



Oh man, this is going to be interesting tonight.

I get it man, seems your buddy is quite hard-headed...It's a shame everybody can't be on the same page, but that's how it is...I'd probably melt down trying to record with some of the folks I used to gig with...Just getting them to practice/gigs on time was like pulling teeth...Some of 'em are great musicians, but if they don't apply themselves, what's the point???

I feel for ya dude...

[Minerman]

I know I was supposed to throw some tones up & they're way overdue, so cut me some slack over here dudes...I'll redeem myself before long...

All you guys know I finally got "the" amp back in my possession back in the summer, & the more I play through that thing, the better I like it..."Like" is an understatement, IMHO the Chupa just flat out kills, from clean to mean & everything in between, it's a superb amp...

So, what am I getting at here??? I like the Mini Jubilee less & less every time I plug into it...Now don't get me wrong, it's a good little amp & is definitely a Marshall...It might be Marshall's red-headed step child, but still, it's a Marshall...

The thing is that amp has a "honky", nasally tone that even after trying all kinds of things, I can't seem to dial out...This could be user error of course, but I dunno...I've tried running an eq (software) through the re-amp box to the input, using eq on the recorded track after the fact, different speakers/mics & lots more...

Any suggestions from you guys??? Maybe there's something that can help remedy this for me I've overlooked...

[Greg_L]

I know I was supposed to throw some tones up & they're way overdue, so cut me some slack over here dudes...I'll redeem myself before long...

All you guys know I finally got "the" amp back in my possession back in the summer, & the more I play through that thing, the better I like it..."Like" is an understatement, IMHO the Chupa just flat out kills, from clean to mean & everything in between, it's a superb amp...

So, what am I getting at here??? I like the Mini Jubilee less & less every time I plug into it...Now don't get me wrong, it's a good little amp & is definitely a Marshall...It might be Marshall's red-headed step child, but still, it's a Marshall...

The thing is that amp has a "honky", nasally tone that even after trying all kinds of things, I can't seem to dial out...This could be user error of course, but I dunno...I've tried running an eq (software) through the re-amp box to the input, using eq on the recorded track after the fact, different speakers/mics & lots more...

Any suggestions from you guys??? Maybe there's something that can help remedy this for me I've overlooked...

I don't know about "honky", but you know I've never really gotten along with the Jubilee. I often like them when other people use them, but I don't like them for myself. So I can't help besides telling you what you already know - for your sound nothing compares to that Chupacabra.

[Minerman]

I don't know about "honky", but you know I've never really gotten along with the Jubilee. I often like them when other people use them, but I don't like them for myself. So I can't help besides telling you what you already know - for your sound nothing compares to that Chupacabra.

Thanks man, you're 100% right, the Chupacabra is the amp for me, no doubt about it...I have gotten some pretty decent clips using the Mini J, but it always seems to be a struggle for me getting it there...I know all amps are different, but still...

I'm shitty terrible at describing sounds, I guess the best thing to do is throw a couple clips up & see what you guys think...

What I'm trying to describe is in the lower mids, kinda like the resonant frequency the Randall ISO cab put on everything, like a "boxy" or "cloudy" sound...It's not my ISO cab this time though, the Mini J has that even through a 4x12...

While I still like it, the honeymoon phase is long gone...Just a little while back, I wouldn't even have thought about getting rid of it, but since the Chupa found it's way back, it really wouldn't bother me at all to let it go...

I'll throw some clips up tomorrow & we'll try to get this figured out...

[Minerman]

Ok dudes, here are a couple clips of the Mini Jubilee...I posted the mix clip so you can hear the guitars in context...

Using the i5 & e609, both tracks are the same volume...No effects at all on the guitars...

Strat bridge HB > Mini Jubilee > G12H > e609 & i5

• Presence:..............7
  Bass:...................5
  Middle:.................4
  Treble:.................6
  Output Master:.......10
  Lead Master:.........10
  Input Gain:............2

Mini Jubilee guitars only 12-18-2018.mp3

Mini Jubilee mix #2 12-18-2018.mp3

Lemme know what you think...

[rayc]

Context is everything - sounds great MM.

[Minerman]

Context is everything - sounds great MM.

Thank you kindly sir, solo'd clips have proven very useful in our little Tonetard world, but I think we need to do the context thing once in a while too...

Do you hear the nasal/boxy mid thing in these clips???

Thanks again dude...

[rayc]

I was fairly happy with the guitar tones on my last two songs. Both were the product of LOUD amps and I seem to be comeing to terms with my semi Superlead.
yesterday I found, in a bunch of old papers, the lyrics and chords to a song I wrote in 1978. No melody, no recordings - I was writing a Rock opera with a collaborator for a special assignment in our last year of Teacher's College.
By doiong a "book" lyrics/chords/melody sheets we would have been able to skip an entire subject for the final semester. Sadly my mate ended up with cold feet so the songs we'd started went into a folder for 40 years.
I found the stuff - found one song that clearly was my work as the chords were the only ones I knew at the time so i decided to start recording it.
1st draft is at 150 bpm as I'm TRYING to avoid mid paced rock for a bit. I decided to skip the sonic reducer weapon of superloud superlead and am trying for a more "breaking up" tone of power pop. I think 150 may be too fast though.
BUTTTTT
I've having a hell of a time getting a decent bass tone of late.
I tried round & flat wound strings, moving away from 1st position etc but it comes out weak and annoying.

Don't Come To Me19.mp3

Thoughts & suggestions?

[JD01]

Been busy and therefore behind with the Tone Thread.

Miner. Those tones are pretty fucking pro. In fact, all the stuff you've posted lately has basically sounded like its been lifted straight off a classic rock album from the 70s or 80s.

[JD01]

And JDude has asked for a sample of the Vox AC15 (the red one I posted in the new gear thread). Here's an original tune from rehearsal. I'm playing slide on a Strat, half cocked wah, a Keeley compressor and the Jeckyll and Hyde pedal that I use all of the time.

04 Simple Love Simple LifeTake 3.mp3

That sounds great, Bill... You're like Lt Bob though, aren't you? You could make a Line6 sound half tidy in a live mix.

How did you capture all that? Is it just a stereo out from teh desk?

[JD01]

I was fairly happy with the guitar tones on my last two songs. Both were the product of LOUD amps and I seem to be comeing to terms with my semi Superlead.
yesterday I found, in a bunch of old papers, the lyrics and chords to a song I wrote in 1978. No melody, no recordings - I was writing a Rock opera with a collaborator for a special assignment in our last year of Teacher's College.
By doiong a "book" lyrics/chords/melody sheets we would have been able to skip an entire subject for the final semester. Sadly my mate ended up with cold feet so the songs we'd started went into a folder for 40 years.
I found the stuff - found one song that clearly was my work as the chords were the only ones I knew at the time so i decided to start recording it.
1st draft is at 150 bpm as I'm TRYING to avoid mid paced rock for a bit. I decided to skip the sonic reducer weapon of superloud superlead and am trying for a more "breaking up" tone of power pop. I think 150 may be too fast though.
BUTTTTT
I've having a hell of a time getting a decent bass tone of late.
I tried round & flat wound strings, moving away from 1st position etc but it comes out weak and annoying.
Don't Come To Me19.mp3
Thoughts & suggestions?

I think this sounds pretty good already ray. I like your bass tone, its quite thick and meaty generally, but sometimes it jumps out and sometimes it disappears further back. It might be getting lost in with your kick - Greg will know what's going on here.

Your guitars sound pretty tidy too.

At the mo, there's just a general reverby/muddy space in the middle of the mix where things sound pretty cluttered. I'll have another listen now.

EDIT: 2nd listen. Your kick, is really undefined. Have you done something to this cos it was giving you that really big reverby slap like you originally had in CCS? The kick seems like it needs to be both louder and drier.

[rayc]

I think this sounds pretty good already ray. I like your bass tone, its quite thick and meaty generally, but sometimes it jumps out and sometimes it disappears further back. It might be getting lost in with your kick - Greg will know what's going on here.
Your guitars sound pretty tidy too.
At the mo, there's just a general reverby/muddy space in the middle of the mix where things sound pretty cluttered. I'll have another listen now.
EDIT: 2nd listen. Your kick, is really undefined. Have you done something to this cos it was giving you that really big reverby slap like you originally had in CCS? The kick seems like it needs to be both louder and drier.

James,
So far it's not much treatment anywhere, ( a smidge of reverb on drums and guitars), but if it's the same kick problem it's also the same source - BIAB - so I'll try the same solution.
I've not listened critically as my ears were tired after tracking the bass a dozen times.
This time around I've not added any top end EQ to the guitars - instead I pulled the microphones back a couple of inches and that seems to have grabbed a little more high end.
It's mostly open chords so that may account for the more cluttered sound.
I'll do a little volume automation on the bass or tighter compression (or both).
Thanks for the detail listen & feedback. I'll get onto it tomorrow.