The Tone Thread

[Greg_L]

So I finally found a flanger setting I like on this crappy Boss BF-3. I don't know why this bitch is so difficult. But it's comparable to the Red Ross I don't have anymore, which was the best flanger of all time. I'll put up some clips today.

[Greg_L]

Okay my fellow rebels, some quickie tonez. This is with the flanger that I'm just now getting to a point where I like it enough to use it more often. Full disclosure, I'm not that picky about flangers, but I know when I don't like one. I don't like a "metallic" sounding flanger that gets weird on the high end of the sweep. I like the jet engine sound type flanger. Anyway, I'm still figuring it out, but this is probably the best I've done yet with this damn thing.

Gibson Les Paul Traditional - Burstbucker 3 bridge pickup
Boss BF-3 Flanger
Marshall JMP 2204
Presence - 4
Bass - 7
Mid - 5
Treb - 6
Pre vol - 6
Master vol - 6
Marshall 1960A 4x12 - Celestion G12-65
Senn e609 on axis, 2" off grill, halfway to edge
No FX or EQ in DAW

Flangerooni

See what you think

[rayc]

Jet boy jet flange
Thta's good. Doesn't veer into space rock at any time.

[rammer24]

Yeah, it's subtle. The first few chords I don't even hear it. Did you only put it on after a few chords, or right from the start? Once I do hear it, it sounds nice.

[Bubba]

Okay my fellow rebels, some quickie tonez. This is with the flanger that I'm just now getting to a point where I like it enough to use it more often. Full disclosure, I'm not that picky about flangers, but I know when I don't like one. I don't like a "metallic" sounding flanger that gets weird on the high end of the sweep. I like the jet engine sound type flanger. Anyway, I'm still figuring it out, but this is probably the best I've done yet with this damn thing.

Gibson Les Paul Traditional - Burstbucker 3 bridge pickup
Boss BF-3 Flanger
Marshall JMP 2204
Presence - 4
Bass - 7
Mid - 5
Treb - 6
Pre vol - 6
Master vol - 6
Marshall 1960A 4x12 - Celestion G12-65
Senn e609 on axis, 2" off grill, halfway to edge
No FX or EQ in DAW

Flangerooni

See what you think

Now we're talking - Flangers. Possibly my favourite effect and beloved of my No.1 guitarist. I'll listen to this properly in the morning and, godsdamnit - I'm going to go through the gamut of my flanger toans, using the daddy of all flangers - the MXR 117R.

YES!!!

[Minerman]

Cool Greg, I'm a big fan of fx, especially modulation, & to me this sounds great dude...To me, you've got just the right amount of fx mixed in, you can tell it's there, but it doesn't overtake the guitar tone...Good job!!!

[Greg_L]

Ha thanks fellas.

Rami - it's not on all the time. I kick it on and off.

[JD01]

I'll listen in the morning... hopefully you're not suffering from the spinning fishtank effect that my danelectro fab flange gives me

[Greg_L]

I'll listen in the morning... hopefully you're not suffering from the spinning fishtank effect that my danelectro fab flange gives me

I don't think so. I like what I did here.

[ido1957]

Nice - just enough to sweep nicely but not spinning out of control.

[rammer24]

Rami - it's not on all the time. I kick it on and off.

Awesome, then. I hear it exactly as I thought. It really sounds good and not over the top.

[Greg_L]

Thanks gents. Now I need to permanently lock this bitch down so nothing ever changes.

[SweetDan]

Go louder, mic closer, or both.

Ok, done. http://eastofcleveland.com/m/guitarTone ... Louder.mp3

0-:50 - Same mic (AKG P170, small-diaphragm condenser), same guitar/compressor/amp settings, but vol was up, and mic 4" off grille (instead of 12")
:50-1:45 - original, for reference

And then I tried something else that I think I like. Still with the closer/louder theme, I positioned an SM57 right next to the P170 at the 4" mark and tried that. That's what you hear 1:45-the end. And I like it better. (While I was playing around, I kept moving the SM57 closer, 4", 1", then right on the grille, but to me it sounded worse the closer it got to the grille, even after adjusting levels.)

So, am I crazy and should just quit wasting my time with a (quite old) modeling amp, and should fork over the $$ for a better amp, or is this tone usable? Is it worth my time even trying to get this little Vox modeling amp recorded out in the open, or would I be better off using an in-the-box amp sim in my DAW as a better-sounding workaround until I have the $$ for a better amp?

[Greg_L]

Well I think it's a little dark, but maybe that's what you're after. Speaking of....what are you after anyway?

Could a sim be better than an old modeling amp? Yeah, possibly. Is a good amp better than a sim? Always. I don't think you'd do any harm by getting another amp. I think you can use that modeling amp though. You just need to work with it. Miking an amp isn't easy. Seems like it should be, but it isn't. It takes knowledge and practice and that's what this thread is for. Keep trying.

I think you should go a little brighter. The center of the speaker is gonna be the brightest spot, but also the thinnest. A good combo of brightness and meaty tone can be found near where the dustcap of the speaker meets the cone. That seam line. As you move to the edge, the sound gets darker. Experiment with it.

[JD01]

Okay my fellow rebels, some quickie tonez. This is with the flanger that I'm just now getting to a point where I like it enough to use it more often. Full disclosure, I'm not that picky about flangers, but I know when I don't like one. I don't like a "metallic" sounding flanger that gets weird on the high end of the sweep. I like the jet engine sound type flanger. Anyway, I'm still figuring it out, but this is probably the best I've done yet with this damn thing.

Gibson Les Paul Traditional - Burstbucker 3 bridge pickup
Boss BF-3 Flanger
Marshall JMP 2204
Presence - 4
Bass - 7
Mid - 5
Treb - 6
Pre vol - 6
Master vol - 6
Marshall 1960A 4x12 - Celestion G12-65
Senn e609 on axis, 2" off grill, halfway to edge
No FX or EQ in DAW

Flangerooni

See what you think

Greg, that flanger sounds really good actually - if you're happy with it, gaffer tape some cling film over the controls so they don't move.

But, given the settings you've gone for, have you considered using a phaser instead? Might be more suitable for what you're after.

[JD01]

Go louder, mic closer, or both.

Ok, done. http://eastofcleveland.com/m/guitarTone ... Louder.mp3

0-:50 - Same mic (AKG P170, small-diaphragm condenser), same guitar/compressor/amp settings, but vol was up, and mic 4" off grille (instead of 12")
:50-1:45 - original, for reference

And then I tried something else that I think I like. Still with the closer/louder theme, I positioned an SM57 right next to the P170 at the 4" mark and tried that. That's what you hear 1:45-the end. And I like it better. (While I was playing around, I kept moving the SM57 closer, 4", 1", then right on the grille, but to me it sounded worse the closer it got to the grille, even after adjusting levels.)

So, am I crazy and should just quit wasting my time with a (quite old) modeling amp, and should fork over the $$ for a better amp, or is this tone usable? Is it worth my time even trying to get this little Vox modeling amp recorded out in the open, or would I be better off using an in-the-box amp sim in my DAW as a better-sounding workaround until I have the $$ for a better amp?

Sure, everyone could always do with more amps and better amps, but that doesn't mean that you can't still learn about mic placement to get the best out of the gear you've got

I also mic up my amp with an AKG condenser (C1000S) and an SM57. Of your clips I think that the 3rd version sounds the best.

I've tried miking up amps with two different condensers and they always sound dark - but I do find that they make small combo amps sound bigger.
Like Greg says you need to move your mic closer to the centre, but specifically, I think you need to have the SM57 closer to the centre than the AKG.

I have quite a naturally dark amp so I have the SM57 close to the centre (just on the edge of the dust-cap) with the AKG a little further out - only a little though 'cos I still find this quite a dark mic. Then I blend the two, mostly using the 57 (which can be a touch too bright on its own) but with the condenser blended in quiet quietly - I find this makes the amp sound "bigger" and counters some of the inherent brightness of having an SM57 just outside the dust-cap.

This is just what I do though and it won't be right for everyone but its something you can try... the most important thing is that you try everything you can and really take the time to train your ears for all the differences you get. Miking up an amp isn't as easy as it sounds - you really need to record a riff, move your mic, record another riff, move it again then listen back to everything and understand all of the differences it makes.

You'll get there though and, even if you use amp sims in future, you'll have learned something that will help you a lot and will be able create better recordings that people who just tweak pre-sets on amp sims.

[Bubba]

Nice sounding clip, Greg. Subtle for my tastes, but the underlying tone is great as well. You started by playing Seventeen, didn't you? Not sure where you wwent after that.

[Bubba]

I haven't got time to submit a proper clip this morning - I'm heading to the shed where the magic happens - but this is my kind of flanger sound in context:

[Greg_L]

Greg, that flanger sounds really good actually - if you're happy with it, gaffer tape some cling film over the controls so they don't move.

But, given the settings you've gone for, have you considered using a phaser instead? Might be more suitable for what you're after.

Thanks man. I have a Phase 90 right next to the Flanger. It's not the same. The phaser is more in your face. I'll do a phaser clip later.

[Greg_L]

Nice sounding clip, Greg. Subtle for my tastes, but the underlying tone is great as well. You started by playing Seventeen, didn't you? Not sure where you wwent after that.

Ha thanks. No, not "Seventeen". Great song though. That was an abbreviated version of "Cheat" by The Clash.