The Tone Thread

[Bubba]

I think they all sound good. Nice and meaty but with good clarity.

LOL, thanks. I'm always self-conscious about posting clips.

[JD01]

Can't listen yet bubba but I will tomorrow afternoon at work. Sorry you cocked the tuners up but you were bound to make a bunch of mistakes on spec. Take'em off, flog'em on eBay and treat yourself to some really nice ones. The guitar appears to have turned out really well and so it won't be a waste to stock some high end gear on it. Personally I like locking tuners, but there's some really chunky open gear ones around to which look great.

No worries, JD. It's my own fault - I skimped. I robbed them from a cheap second-hand guitar. This guitar ought to have the best of everything. I'm looking at a set of Grover 102 rotomatics with the keystone button shape. Eighty quid, but I've managed to sell my old backup guitar for a few quid. That ought to ease the pain.

Natural to skimp a bit when you're not sure how the guitar will turn out.

I have these,
https://www.schaller-electronic.com/hp4 ... -Heads.htm
They're great.

[JD01]

I think they all sound good. Nice and meaty but with good clarity.

LOL, thanks. I'm always self-conscious about posting clips.

It's weird posting your tones without a mix isn't it? A bit like first time you visit a nude beach.

[muttley]

Man locking tuners are the biggest scam around. Besides maybe slightly quicker string changes, they don't do anything to help tuning stability that normally functioning standard tuner doesn't do.

A normal tuner IS a locking tuner.

Ahhhhh I know what you mean now. I call those "country chords". Lol. I sometimes use them to lead right into the next chord but I don't know how or why it works. Like if you play a G, then a quick G7, it goes right to C.

It has to do with whats called voice leading. Adding the 7th (or some other interval) that is relevant to the next chord both suggests where the chord is going and also provides a pleasing resolution to what your ear is anticipating. It resolves once the root of the next chord is heard and is kind of a stepping stone in terms of wiuder composition. The "leading" note will resolve into the next chord often as part of it..

[muttley]

Can't listen yet bubba but I will tomorrow afternoon at work. Sorry you cocked the tuners up but you were bound to make a bunch of mistakes on spec. Take'em off, flog'em on eBay and treat yourself to some really nice ones. The guitar appears to have turned out really well and so it won't be a waste to stock some high end gear on it. Personally I like locking tuners, but there's some really chunky open gear ones around to which look great.

No worries, JD. It's my own fault - I skimped. I robbed them from a cheap second-hand guitar. This guitar ought to have the best of everything. I'm looking at a set of Grover 102 rotomatics with the keystone button shape. Eighty quid, but I've managed to sell my old backup guitar for a few quid. That ought to ease the pain.

Dont blame the tuners just yet. Even really cheap tuners work. If it's not holding tune I would look to the setup first and then the neck join. Make sure it is rock solid. If you are having trouble getting it in tune then ditto, look first at the nut, get a bone nut on there and cut it well, make sure the saddles are clean and smooth.

A tuner will stay where it is once it is at pitch, its a capstan/pinion so it is well capable in terms of the engineering and the stress it is under. If you are having trouble actually using the tuners once you have checked everything else then maybe you need to check them for wear... I rarely if ever have seen a tuner that slips or will not hold tune. It's always something else... When tuners fail thet fail catastrophically..

I will listen tomorrow in the workshop where I have decent speakers... Right now I;m laptop only and the house has gone bed...

[Greg_L]

LOL, thanks. I'm always self-conscious about posting clips.

Why? Don't be. You always have good sounds.

A tuner will stay where it is once it is at pitch, its a capstan/pinion so it is well capable in terms of the engineering and the stress it is under. If you are having trouble actually using the tuners once you have checked everything else then maybe you need to check them for wear... I rarely if ever have seen a tuner that slips or will not hold tune. It's always something else... When tuners fail thet fail catastrophically..

This is what I was getting at. You don't need to physically lock the string in the tuner if the tuner is not damaged and functioning normally. Tuners don't slip. They can't...unless something is wrong. I have one guitar with locking tuners and it's not any more tuning-stable than all of my other non-locking tuner guitars.

Now if you just hate the gear ratio, then sure, get some new ones.

[muttley]

This is what I was getting at. You don't need to physically lock the string in the tuner if the tuner is not damaged and functioning normally. Tuners don't slip. They can't...unless something is wrong. I have one guitar with locking tuners and it's not any more tuning-stable than all of my other non-locking tuner guitars.

Now if you just hate the gear ratio, then sure, get some new ones.

Exactly. There is a good argument for better quality tuners, they are easier to use. They feel good, look good etc. However the most expensive tuners will not improve a lack of set up elsewhere, nut and saddles specifically. Set it up right first and then go for some fancy tuners if you want. In thirty years I have only ever seen one or two cases where the tuner was the cause of unstable tuning.... Its the last place I look.

Locking tuners and worse, locking nuts, became the rage when factory standards were slipping and everyone was doing the dumb dive bombing thing. They are a solution without a problem.

[Bubba]

Dont blame the tuners just yet. Even really cheap tuners work. If it's not holding tune I would look to the setup first and then the neck join. Make sure it is rock solid. If you are having trouble getting it in tune then ditto, look first at the nut, get a bone nut on there and cut it well, make sure the saddles are clean and smooth.

A tuner will stay where it is once it is at pitch, its a capstan/pinion so it is well capable in terms of the engineering and the stress it is under. If you are having trouble actually using the tuners once you have checked everything else then maybe you need to check them for wear... I rarely if ever have seen a tuner that slips or will not hold tune. It's always something else... When tuners fail thet fail catastrophically..

I will listen tomorrow in the workshop where I have decent speakers... Right now I;m laptop only and the house has gone bed...

Yes, I agree. The problem of not holding tune went away once I'd put graphite in the nut slots and stretched the strings thoroughly once more, but the gear ratios are awful. Just a small movement of the tuner head results in a large pitch change. I can't cope with that.

I'm not sure the neck's right yet. It's a two-way truss rod and the sweet spot for neck relief seems to be in the slack water between the rod pulling and pushing. This means that the neck is susceptible to me pulling or pushing on it because the truss rod isn't doing its job keeping the neck rigid. Perhaps it'll settle in eventually under string tension.

[muttley]

Yes, I agree. The problem of not holding tune went away once I'd put graphite in the nut slots and stretched the strings thoroughly once more, but the gear ratios are awful. Just a small movement of the tuner head results in a large pitch change. I can't cope with that.

I'm not sure the neck's right yet. It's a two-way truss rod and the sweet spot for neck relief seems to be in the slack water between the rod pulling and pushing. This means that the neck is susceptible to me pulling or pushing on it because the truss rod isn't doing its job keeping the neck rigid. Perhaps it'll settle in eventually under string tension.

I'm just suggesting that you get the nut and saddles right before changing the tuners. What gear ratio are they? There really are only a few out there...

As for the truss rod. It's sole purpose is to counter the pull of the strings nothing more. It does not add any more rigidity to the neck whether it is under tension or not. Adjustments to the truss rod can take a while to settle in but not by adding stiffness or rigidity. The neck itself will flex just as much with the truss rod in compression, tension or at rest.

[Greg_L]

By the way....that BubbaMutt90 sounds badass.

I can't wait to hear one in the bridge position.

[muttley]

By the way....that BubbaMutt90 sounds badass.

I can't wait to hear one in the bridge position.

On it this week...

Weird thing is, I wound a slightly hotter veresion of Bubba's B90 today and put Alnico II's in it. Keen to check out its capabilities I went off and hunted foir my humbucker test guitar and I'm damned if I can find it. It seems to have gone missing in the workshop move a year ago. I have about 20 or more guitars around here at anytime and not one of them is a bucker build...

[Greg_L]

Bubba I'm listening to your Riff Raff clips again more closely. Sounds a lot like mine. I hear a lot of the same character in yours as I do mine. Very cool. It's got the balanced low end and midrange with a clear-but-not-shrill top end. Sounds great.

[Minerman]

Ok dudes, here's a tone from Hillbillyville, I think this is the first tone I've posted here, hard to believe....I've got a lot goin' on, & it's hard to keep up with a whole forum, instead of just the tone thread, so I apologize...

Not sure what guitars were used on this, I'm guessing the left guitar is the P90 SG, & the right is the humbucker SG...Rami will have to let us know about that...

These are the rhythm tones I'm using on one of Rami's songs, I'm dying to hurry & finish the mix, but I don't wanna shortchange the mix just because I'm excited about it...I personally think this is a great song, & deserves no less than my very best effort...

Signal chain: ??? > EVH LBX > Greenback (the older one I've had for a few years, not the EVH branded speakers) > Audix i5 > daw (there is reverb on these tracks, I forgot to mute the reverb folder...)

Amp settings:
Blue channel (the amp still has the lower-gain tubes in a couple of the pre-amp slots that IMHO, makes the amp a lot more versatile)
15w mode
Gain:........6-7
Bass:..........7
Mid:...........2
Treble:.......4
Presence:....5
Volume:......5

Rami Re-Amped

Lemme know what you guys think...

[Bubba]

Bubba I'm listening to your Riff Raff clips again more closely. Sounds a lot like mine. I hear a lot of the same character in yours as I do mine. Very cool. It's got the balanced low end and midrange with a clear-but-not-shrill top end. Sounds great.

I listened again this morning and I have to agree. A proper electric guitar sound.

[JD01]

Re: pickups, gents you're convincing me and I'm skint! Stop it!

Tuners: Yeah, I can't see why very good tuners would be notably better than cheap ones providing the cheap one are at least of acceptable quality When I comes to tuning stability. They can't hurt though and I do like the feel of a good meaty robust set..

[Bubba]

Re: pickups, gents you're convincing me and I'm skint! Stop it!

Tuners: Yeah, I can't see why very good tuners would be notably better than cheap ones providing the cheap one are at least of acceptable quality When I comes to tuning stability. They can't hurt though and I do like the feel of a good meaty robust set..

LOL. Bear in mind that it's a great-sounding pickup but I wouldn't call it a metal pickup. Although I haven't really tried any gainy sounds with it yet. One thing that strikes me is how nice the split coil sound is. It's extremely tight, textured and usable, with enough poke to still drive the channel. Not a typical single-coil sound at all. I reckon I'll use it a lot, live.

[Greg_L]

I listened again this morning and I have to agree. A proper electric guitar sound.

What Crunch mode did you use on the JVM? What mic/placement? I'd like to try the same settings with mine and see how they compare.

[Bubba]

I listened again this morning and I have to agree. A proper electric guitar sound.

What Crunch mode did you use on the JVM? What mic/placement? I'd like to try the same settings with mine and see how they compare.

I just edited last night's post as I realised I hadn't put which mode I used! It was orange mode and an SM57 close to the grille. I tried to get it between the edge and the cone but my grille cloth's a bit dense. I'd say the boom and sizzle are fairly well-balanced and representative of the room sound.

I'm interested to hear, too. I think the style and weight of my guitar is quite Paul-ish apart from the bolt-on neck so I'm expecting them to be similar. Even though it's a double-cut it's nothing like a Gibson SG in character.

[Greg_L]

LOL. Bear in mind that it's a great-sounding pickup but I wouldn't call it a metal pickup. Although I haven't really tried any gainy sounds with it yet. One thing that strikes me is how nice the split coil sound is. It's extremely tight, textured and usable, with enough poke to still drive the channel. Not a typical single-coil sound at all. I reckon I'll use it a lot, live.

Right. It's a great sounding pickup, but it's got comparatively mild output compared to most aftermarket rock and roll pickups. The Riff Raff is definitely not a "metal" pickup. By "metal" standards it's output is very low....but I bet it'd sound awesome even for metal. If you're using high gain on a high gain amp, I don't see how having a clear balanced pickup feeding into it would be a bad thing.

[Greg_L]

I just edited last night's post as I realised I hadn't put which mode I used! It was orange mode and an SM57 close to the grille. I tried to get it between the edge and the cone but my grille cloth's a bit dense. I'd say the boom and sizzle are fairly well-balanced and representative of the room sound.

I'm interested to hear, too. I think the style and weight of my guitar is quite Paul-ish apart from the bolt-on neck so I'm expecting them to be similar. Even though it's a double-cut it's nothing like a Gibson SG in character.

Cool. So Crunch Orange, gain around 8, EQ knobs at noon, 57 on a G12T-75. I can do that. I'll give it a whirl later today.