The Tone Thread

[Minerman]

Ha cool.

My amp on 2 is not happy. It's too loud to sit in front of and noodle around, but it's not loud enough for the amp to be what it is. I'd bet that your new 20w version is designed to be more linear and usable at lower volumes, even though 20 watts has plenty of potential to be loud. That might be why it has more preamp gain. The whole point of preamp gain in this circuit is to make up for what the power amp is lacking at low volumes. If your amp was intended to be more usable at lower volumes, it makes sense that they'd design it to have more preamp gain.

That's what I was trying to say, your amp ain't where it needs to be on "2"...The re-amp clips you posted sound good, but I know that amp can sound waaay better...

Your explanation about my amp makes a lot of sense too dude, I'd say you nailed that...

I probably ain't gonna post any clips tonight like I planned...I spent about 4 hours in the waiting room to see the doc today for the checkup I have every 2 months...Just sitting there all that time made me feel like I'd worked a 12 hour shift in a coal mine...It might've taken him 20 minutes to do what he had to do, the other 3 1/2 hours I had to sit & wait to see him...I had an appointment too, a walk-in takes longer than that most of the time...Fuckers, that shit ain't cool, but I don't have a choice 'cause I gotta see him, so...


But, there's good news, yes sir, good news indeed!!!I'm gonna go pick up my EVH cab & diy-pedalboard tomorrow from my nephew the preacher...Plus, my univibe pedal will be here tomorrow too...It's a mono/stereo pedal, so I'm gonna try some different shit using 2 amps/cabs...Should be a cool pedal, using the editor thing it's supposed to be able to do chorus, flanger, all kinds of shit, plus the univibe thing...

Dunno how it'll sound recorded, but I'm gonna bet my neighbors will think it's epic...

[WhiskeyJack]

OK attempting to get caught up on all tone thread and listening stuff here this evening.

Just stopped for lunch, plugged my guitar in and started playing... quite liked the tone I had immediately and it was something that I very rarely play and don't think I've ever recorded before: A clean bridge humbucker.

So its my custom Doghouse Humbucker into my clean channel with everything on 5.
Just bashing away on some chords.
CLean Humbucker.mp3

JD this is perfect and could wok for so many things. As far as clean tones go this is probably as top shelf as it can get. I happen to agree with greg that the little bit of break up you got going on is the icing on the cake it makes it for me. I am really impressed dude. I would be pretty down to rent your amp if it were ever possible to try out for a little bit. You have proven it is one hell of a work horse for a basement / bedroom recording kind of guy. Really impressed with this.

[mention]Minerman[/mention]

Dude. Fuck. That little amp sounds killer. I can't even comment on any of the really indepth marshall nerdboy talk but listening to the progression of tones you have been posting up i am really smitten with all the 20W stuff. I wasn't at all in love with the SG humbucker tones at all but in that one clip of the mix it works really well.

What this proves is that anything is possible with a 20W or less.

I did test drive one of the 800 super lead combo amps in town here when one was available but it honestly doesn't at all come close to what i am hearing here.

Enjoy dude. That is a keeper amp!!! Can't wait to hear some full on songs.

[Minerman]

Minerman

Dude. Fuck. That little amp sounds killer. I can't even comment on any of the really indepth marshall nerdboy talk but listening to the progression of tones you have been posting up i am really smitten with all the 20W stuff. I wasn't at all in love with the SG humbucker tones at all but in that one clip of the mix it works really well.

What this proves is that anything is possible with a 20W or less.

I did test drive one of the 800 super lead combo amps in town here when one was available but it honestly doesn't at all come close to what i am hearing here.

Enjoy dude. That is a keeper amp!!! Can't wait to hear some full on songs.

Thanks Shan, glad to see you drop in here, I know you're covered up with all kinds of stuff so please, take a break from it all when you can...

I think it's safe to say that the Gerg & I are Marshall maniacs...He's Dr. Evil with his full size amps, & I'm Mini Me with my little amps...

The new amp has taken me by surprise, I expected it to be a whole lot like my Mini Jubilee, but in my humble opinion, it's much, much more...And yes, I really, really like these little amps...They don't have the roar of the big amps, & they're not "bedroom amps" at all, but I think they hold their own for what they are...

And I know I keep telling you guys I'm working on stuff without any results , but be patient, hopefully I'll have a surprise or two before too much longer...

Thanks again dude...

If you did test drive an 800/Super Lead & wasn't impressed, you either didn't have enough time with it, or something was wrong with it...To me, those amps are pretty the benchmark that all other amps are measured by...

[TripleM]

[
Post us some clips of your tones man,...You mentioned re-tracking some things for the songs you sent me, this thread is a really good way to get feedback/opinions, plus we can all learn things...

OK, sounds great. Here we go. This is the tone I plan to use on that retrack. Here are the details:

Les Paul Traditional (57 Classics) Bridge pickup
- Volume 10
- Tone 9

Mesa Boogie Mark V
- Crunch Mode
Amp dials don't have numbers, these are approximately where they'd be on a 0 -10 (Marshall style) dial
- Gain - 3
- Master - 6
- Presence - 5
- Treble - 4
- Mid - 4
- Bass - 6

SM 57 on the edge of the dust cap. About 1 1/2 inches back. Straight on.

[Minerman]

OK, sounds great. Here we go. This is the tone I plan to use on that retrack. Here are the details:

Les Paul Traditional (57 Classics) Bridge pickup
- Volume 10
- Tone 9

Mesa Boogie Mark V
- Crunch Mode
Amp dials don't have numbers, these are approximately where they'd be on a 0 -10 (Marshall style) dial
- Gain - 3
- Master - 6
- Presence - 5
- Treble - 4
- Mid - 4
- Bass - 6

SM 57 on the edge of the dust cap. About 1 1/2 inches back. Straight on.

This is an improvement over the tracks you sent me, but I think you can still get some more "oomph/meat/chunk" into this dude...I think it needs a little more bottom, so maybe try upping the bass a tad, and maybe play with the mid up or down to see how it affects the sound...

Gotta be honest though, I have zero experience with Mesa amps...I have messed with simulations, but never the real thing....

What speaker are you using???

The rest of the gang will probably be here shortly & I'm sure they can help a lot more than I can dude...

[WhiskeyJack]

If you did test drive an 800/Super Lead & wasn't impressed, you either didn't have enough time with it, or something was wrong with it...To me, those amps are pretty the benchmark that all other amps are measured by...

Sorry. Should have been more clear. It was the mini version of it. In a 1x12 combo rig thing. But you are right i didnt spend enough time with it. Noe did i spend much time with the big 800 i had rented there for a mo th or so. I dodnt really get anything i felt as a keeper track when i had that home. Was it fun and loud?! Sure was. Made my ears bleed. Bit yea i totally cpuld have and should have soent mpore time with it.

[Minerman]

Sorry. Should have been more clear. It was the mini version of it. In a 1x12 combo rig thing. But you are right i didnt spend enough time with it. Noe did i spend much time with the big 800 i had rented there for a mo th or so. I dodnt really get anything i felt as a keeper track when i had that home. Was it fun and loud?! Sure was. Made my ears bleed. Bit yea i totally cpuld have and should have soent mpore time with it.

No need to apologize to a hillbilly like me dude...I'm not familiar with the 1x12 combos Shan, but the big 800 you rented should've sounded great, especially through your Orange cab(s)...

While my new amp sounds pretty similar to a big 800, it's probably actually a lot different...Greg says his amps ain't happy on "2", they need to be wound up to sound like they should, & that's like jet airplane loudness dude...I dunno if you can do that where you live, but if you can, maybe try renting that thing again & really spend some time with it...If you get the chance, try out one of the 20w Mini Marshall amps too...

[WhiskeyJack]

[
Post us some clips of your tones man,...You mentioned re-tracking some things for the songs you sent me, this thread is a really good way to get feedback/opinions, plus we can all learn things...

OK, sounds great. Here we go. This is the tone I plan to use on that retrack. Here are the details:

Les Paul Traditional (57 Classics) Bridge pickup
- Volume 10
- Tone 9

Mesa Boogie Mark V
- Crunch Mode
Amp dials don't have numbers, these are approximately where they'd be on a 0 -10 (Marshall style) dial
- Gain - 3
- Master - 6
- Presence - 5
- Treble - 4
- Mid - 4
- Bass - 6

SM 57 on the edge of the dust cap. About 1 1/2 inches back. Straight on.

I feel the same as [mention]Minerman[/mention] it's good but it could use a bit more meat. You could try fiddling with the bass but, if it were me i'd maybe try to see what nudging that mic inwards about a 1/4" might do for the tone.

From my own experiences of experimenting in playing with distance off the grill instead of knob twiddling, sliding it back to about inch and half to 2 inches really smoothed out a tone and took the lumps out but it also kind of took a bit of the balls out. It was still a good usable tone, I found about an inch to an inch and a quarter to be the magical sparkle + balls zone for me. Now that is to say for me! I have a 4x12 with V30's. Your mileage is gonna vary but it could be worth a shot?

Or, you know, just nudge the bass up a bit like miner said which is definitely the easiest of the options.

[Greg_L]

[
Post us some clips of your tones man,...You mentioned re-tracking some things for the songs you sent me, this thread is a really good way to get feedback/opinions, plus we can all learn things...

OK, sounds great. Here we go. This is the tone I plan to use on that retrack. Here are the details:

Les Paul Traditional (57 Classics) Bridge pickup
- Volume 10
- Tone 9

Mesa Boogie Mark V
- Crunch Mode
Amp dials don't have numbers, these are approximately where they'd be on a 0 -10 (Marshall style) dial
- Gain - 3
- Master - 6
- Presence - 5
- Treble - 4
- Mid - 4
- Bass - 6

SM 57 on the edge of the dust cap. About 1 1/2 inches back. Straight on.

I kind of agree with the other guys that it's a little thin. But I also think this is a tone that really needs to be tested in a mix. This might sound great against a bass guitar that's holding down all of the low end. And it's possible that you are inhabiting a sort of no-man's-land guitar tone. It's a little too crunchy for a pop jangle sound, but it's too clean-ish for a more aggressive style. It's in a weird spot. Like I said, it might really all come down to how it plays against the bass guitar. This kind of tone can really work well with the right bass tone.

More concerning to me is the guitar's tuning, intonation, or maybe how you're fretting the chords. It sounds like the guitar is out of tune or you're pulling it out of tune. Either way, it makes the sound messier than it should be.

[Greg_L]

Greg says his amps ain't happy on "2", they need to be wound up to sound like they should,

It's true. It doesn't need to be cranked, but the big 800 needs to be at least on 4-ish to even start sounding like it should. "2" is pretty much useless, and "4" is gig loud. An 2203 with the master vol on 4 into a 4x12 will beat up on a drummer. I'm not kidding, my 2203 seems louder than even the Plexis. A 100w Super Lead fully cranked is fucking loud. It sounds glorious, but it's too loud for any modern practical purpose outside of recording. The 2203 seems even louder.

[rayc]

TripleM,
What they said - a little thin. It'd fatten as the vol goes up I'm sure.
can you pop it in a mix for comparison. Half the world cuts off the bottom 100 when they put a guitar into a mix so yours might be heaven sent for that sound & mix placement. I used to lop off the tail myself until I had my amp modded and now I revel in it's full range.
What's the tone like at the bridge?

[TripleM]

Thanks guys. I like the suggestion of moving the mic in a bit. I'll give that a try, as well as playing with the low end.

Additionally, I might try to lower the volume on the guitar while boosting the gain level a bit. I'll see what that does to the character of the distortion (to address Greg's point).

[Greg_L]

Thanks guys. I like the suggestion of moving the mic in a bit. I'll give that a try, as well as playing with the low end.

Additionally, I might try to lower the volume on the guitar while boosting the gain level a bit. I'll see what that does to the character of the distortion (to address Greg's point).

That might work. Proximity effect can be a very good thing on guitar racks. I like it. A lot of guys shelve off everything in the low end. I don't subscribe to that kind of groupthink.

Also, Id try the opposite of what you said. Leave the guitar full power, lower the gain a little, but push the volume. More volume/less gain can give you a really aggressive "pushed clean" kind of sound that stays tight and punchy but it's still got a little hair around it. It works great with Marshalls and Fenders. It'll probably work on a Mesa too.

[TripleM]

Ok I'll give that a swing. Thanks.

[Minerman]

Ok, been fucking around with the new gear today, so here are some clips...Nothing special at all, just me fucking around, but using the pedals I recently acquired...

All these clips have the exact same amp settings, speaker & mic, I just used the neck HB p'up for half & the bridge HB for the rest, with some fx running straight into the front of the amp...

The MXR Phase 95 has 4 different settings: "regular" Phase 95/blue (4 stage), Phase 45/red (2 stage), plus a "Script" button...I didn't use the script button, so when the phaser is on, it's either the 95 or 45 mode, with the same rate setting...

I labeled each clip so hopefully you guys will understand my hillbilly gibberish trying to explain what I've done here...

Signal Chain: strat > (MXR Phase 95/TC Electronic Viscous Vibe)>Mini JCM 800 > G12-65 > SM57

• TC Electronic Viscous Vibe:
  Speed:..........0
  Intensity:......10
  Level:..........10

• Presence:...............4.5
  Bass:.....................5
  Middle:..................10
  Treble:...................5
  Master:.................3.5
  Gain:....................10

Strat Neck HB no FX:

Strat Neck_SC20H_65_SM57 10-10-2019.mp3

Strat Neck HB w/TC Electronics Univibe:

Strat Neck_univibe_SC20H_65_SM57 10-10-2019.mp3

Strat Neck HB w/MXR Phase 95 red/"45" mode:

Strat Neck_Phase 95 red_SC20H_65_SM57 10-10-2019.mp3

Strat Neck HB w/MXR Phase 95 blue/"95" mode:

Strat Neck_Phase 95 blue_SC20H_65_SM57 10-10-2019.mp3

Strat Bridge HB no FX:

Strat Bridge_SC20H_65_SM57 10-10-2019.mp3

Strat Bridge HB w/TC Electronics Univibe:

Strat Bridge_Univibe_SC20H_65_SM57 10-10-2019.mp3

Strat Bridge HB w/MXR Phase 95 red/"45" mode:

Strat Bridge_Phase 95 red_SC20H_65_SM57 10-10-2019.mp3

Strat Bridge HB w/MXR Phase 95 blue/"95" mode:

Strat Bridge_Phase 95 blue_SC20H_65_SM57 10-10-2019.mp3

And, so far the new univibe sounds better to me than the old one I have (Danelectro Cool Cat), but I still need to connect it to the computer & do some editing, mainly make the rate/speed a bit slower...In these clips, it's a slow as it will go, but I think it needs to be even slower...

Lemme know what you guys think...

[Greg_L]

[mention]Minerman[/mention] Those are pretty cool man. I like the phase 95 mode the best. It's a little deeper than 45, but not as spazzy as the univibe. Univibe is too much warble for me.

And I meant to tell you the other day....the 65 is the speaker to use with that amp.

[Minerman]

Minerman Those are pretty cool man. I like the phase 95 mode the best. It's a little deeper than 45, but not as spazzy as the univibe. Univibe is too much warble for me.

Thanks dude, after I posted those I remembered I should've tweaked the rate knob on the phase when switching modes...For some reason the 45 mode is so subtle, you can't really tell it's on unless you adjust it...

Yes, the univibe is a bit much the way I had it set here, the intensity knob was full on & it'd probably sound better backed off a little...But this thing has about any kind of adjustment for the parameters in the editor that it's unreal...Not only can it do the univibe (which I think is much better than the other one I have) pretty well, it can do chorus, flanger & all kinds of shit...I just need to spend some time with it...

The vibrato mode on the new pedal is kinda weird to me, instead of a traditional tremolo like on a Fender amp, this thing warbles the signal up/down, instead of cutting the signal in/out...

And I meant to tell you the other day....the 65 is the speaker to use with that amp.

I agree the 65 sounds great with the new Mini 800 dude, it's kinda like the Greenback, but it doesn't flub out as easy...

And....I'm still lovin' this fuckin' amp dude, it absolutely caught me off guard by how good I think it is...I haven't did anything with it except play through it...I keep meaning to take the chassis out & snap some gutshot pics, but it's hard to do that when I'm playing through it...I fuckin' love it...

[TripleM]

OK I made some changes. Same basic part...

I tried lowering the guitar volume and raising the gain for grins - because I was curious. But I didn't think that improved anything so I moved it back. I moved the mic closer, and I don't think I needed to play with the bass setting. I then tried moving the mic out towards the speaker edge, but I thought it was too muffled so I move it back.

Here is where I landed.

Les Paul Traditional (57 Classics) Bridge pickup (kept this where it was)
- Volume 10
- Tone 9

Mesa Boogie Mark V
- Crunch Mode
Amp dials don't have numbers, these are approximately where they'd be on a 0 -10 (Marshall style) dial
- Gain - 3
- Master - 7.5 (can't go much louder)
- Presence - 5
- Treble - 4
- Mid - 4
- Bass - 6

SM 57 on the edge of the dust cap. On the grill cloth. Straight on.

Not really drastic changes.

[TripleM]

Ok, been fucking around with the new gear today,...

I liked the bridge pickup clips much better. I didn't focus much on the neck clips.

Honestly I like the clip with no effects a lot. THe one with the Univibe was a little to muffled. The no-effects one was aggressive, which I liked.

[Minerman]

SM 57 on the edge of the dust cap. On the grill cloth. Straight on.

What speaker are you using dude??????