Possibly stupid intonation question.

[rammer24]

Oh shit! That's kind of crucial information.

Thanx Roman. Yeah sorry. I should have mentioned that. Didn't think of it at the time.

I'm sure they relocated the bridge and did whatever had to be done. The guitar plays well, just a bit out of tune when I play open chords and a good part of that can be my playing technique.

What Lt. Bob said is also very importnat. It might not be a regular intonation problem, because it tunes perfectly open and it tunes perfectly at the 12 fret, harmonics too. It's just a few of the first frets and it's not a lot.

[miroslav]

Fret at the first fret. Take note of the distance between the string and the second fret. That measurement should be your nut height.

I haven't looked/measured this on my guitars yet...but just thinking about it...I get the feeling that would something pretty low, the string from the 2nd fret.
I'm not doubting you...just thinking about it.

Is this pretty much a good standard with any/all electric guitars?
Can you toss out some actual numbers in mm...something I can compare against to see if my guitars are in the ballpark.


Also....let say you find a nut that the slots are too high. Would it be easier to just remove the nut and file down the backside...or make the string grooves deeper?
I'm thinking that without the right groove files...it might be better to lower the nut instead of the grooves.

[ocnor]

Also....let say you find a nut that the slots are too high. Would it be easier to just remove the nut and file down the backside...or make the string grooves deeper?
I'm thinking that without the right groove files...it might be better to lower the nut instead of the grooves.

That's exactly right. The slots need to be a specific depth to match the string gauge or it will never stay in tune. You just pop the nut off and run the back of it across a piece of sandpaper flat on a table until you get the right height.

[Lt. Bob]

Also....let say you find a nut that the slots are too high. Would it be easier to just remove the nut and file down the backside...or make the string grooves deeper?
I'm thinking that without the right groove files...it might be better to lower the nut instead of the grooves.

Yep .... at the shop that was my preferred method if the back of the nut was flat.
It makes it easy to get precise on the amount you take off.

[Lt. Bob]

Fret at the first fret. Take note of the distance between the string and the second fret. That measurement should be your nut height.

I haven't looked/measured this on my guitars yet...but just thinking about it...I get the feeling that would something pretty low, the string from the 2nd fret.
I'm not doubting you...just thinking about it.

Is this pretty much a good standard with any/all electric guitars?
Can you toss out some actual numbers in mm...something I can compare against to see if my guitars are in the ballpark.

.

yes this is right and here's why.

ALL the frets the entire length of the fretboard have that same amount of clearance ... any note you play is like that .... play the first fret and measure at the second ..... play the 6th fret and measure at the 7th ...... play the 14th fret and measure at the 15th ..... see what I'm saying?
So why should the clearance over the first fret be greater than all the other frets? It shouldn't.

HOWEVER ..... personally I like to set it a tiny bit greater because an open string moves a lot and I just feel it needs a bit more room.

But I'm talking a very slight bit greater.
If you get too high at the first fret .... you have problems with the first 3-5 frets playing sharp.

[miroslav]

yes this is right and here's why.

ALL the frets the entire length of the fretboard have that same amount of clearance ... any note you play is like that .... play the first fret and measure at the second ..... play the 6th fret and measure at the 7th ...... play the 14th fret and measure at the 15th ..... see what I'm saying?
So why should the clearance over the first fret be greater than all the other frets? It shouldn't.

Yes, right.
I didn't think/say there would be different clearances from fret to fret......I was just thinking about how Roman worded it, and it hit home how very low the grooves need to be to the fretboard.
I was asking for a number in millimeters because the overall clearance would be affected by choice of action height. I'm curious what Roman uses for his standard.

I wonder if there might be "some" differences (it's probably micrometers) that might be caused by the normal bow in the neck that is needed for proper action, relative to the position on the neck and the distance from nut/bridge to fret in use...?...,but yeah, even then, fret-next-to-fret measurements would probably be insignificant compared to a neck that was 100% flat from end to end.
I've never gotten that anal to measure all those points and compare...my feeler gauges don't go down that fine anyway!

I think a lot of manufactures when doing big production runs are simply using a one size nut, and just dropping it in there...so if the neck build is perfect, the height is perfect...but I think often when it's wrong, it's wrong on the high side, rather than low.

[Lt. Bob]

I wonder if there might be "some" differences (it's probably micrometers) that might be caused by the normal bow in the neck that is needed for proper action, relative to the position on the neck and the distance from nut/bridge to fret in use...?

yes there is ..... which is another reason I like to have the clearance at the 1st fret a bit high .... I suppose I'm saying that I actually like to use the clearance measurement at around the 10th fret (play the 9th .... measure at the 10th ) because in a neck with much relief, it's gonna be a bit more there.
Yeah, we're talking about micro measurements but it makes a difference.

[miroslav]

I wonder if there might be "some" differences (it's probably micrometers) that might be caused by the normal bow in the neck that is needed for proper action, relative to the position on the neck and the distance from nut/bridge to fret in use...?

yes there is ..... which is another reason I like to have the clearance at the 1st fret a bit high .... I suppose I'm saying that I actually like to use the clearance measurement at around the 10th fret (play the 9th .... measure at the 10th ) because in a neck with much relief, it's gonna be a bit more there.
Yeah, we're talking about micro measurements but it makes a difference.

OK...cool.
Then I wasn't out in left field with my thinking.

[Lt. Bob]

OK...cool.
Then I wasn't out in left field with my thinking.

nope .... you're spot on.