I've Heard Mutt's P'ups are dawg-gone good

[Minerman]

OK, here;s is what I'd do.

Bubba's Muttbucker was specifically designed as a neck pocket pup to balance out with his Mutt90 in the bridge but there are some characteristics that I would keep. Since we are going to be pairing this with a rail style in the neck I would start there. I'm going to order up some bobbins for that and see how many turns I can comfortably get on them. A single coil size is going to take less copper than a bucker so the output is going to be determined by the single coil. I would anticipate that we would end up in the 8k range for the bucker which would be just fine for what you want and also keep the main characteristics that Bubba's MuttBucker has, ie, good clarity and enough output to push an amp when needed.. Sort of a classic PAF. If we can go hotter I would use an Alnico 2 to take some of the bite and dirt out of it if you want it lower. A lot will depend on what we can do with the rail pup..

I would also go for a coil split on the Bucker so that you can switch to a single coil in the bridge if you want. Bubba claimed his had quite a bit of oomph and didnt bleed out when switched. That would be a good bonus.

Let me get some rail bobbins spun up and we will base the rest on how much output we can get from that. Ideally we want a hotter output than a normal single coil strat pup as hum cancelling also robs some output..... Leave it with me.

Stay tuned.

Right, I want the neck/rail to be just a bit hotter than a usual single coil, but without the noise...I'd already planned on the coil split switch so I'd have the single coil in the bridge if I wanted it...

Miner, I know this aint my project, but I'm thinking you'd want something hotter than 8 or 9k...

Ideally I would say yeh, but paired with a single coil sized strat pup thats gonna dominate if you aint careful. I recon I can still get a good grunt and clarity on an 8-9K... I'd like to pair the two as well as possible, a lot will depend how bright and punchy I can get the rail pup.. I would be guided by that if I was doing this for myself. Start with what you cant affect then pull what you can in to match it..

Bright & punchy is exactly how I'd describe what I'd want from the neck/rail p'up dude...Again, you're the guru Mutt, so I'm gonna trust you on this...

All you Tonetards are more than welcome to put your in here, this is new territory for me, & all input/opinions are more than welcome...

[muttley]

OK man, leave it with me. I'm sure we will come up with something pretty special..

[Minerman]

OK man, leave it with me. I'm sure we will come up with something pretty special..

[Minerman]

Ok, doing some speculating here, trying to get all my ducks in a row for the strat resurrection...


blank pickguard
3 - 500k CTS pots
.022mfd Orange Drop tone cap
3 - mini-toggle switches (one for each p'up on/off & one for the bridge coil split)
roller trees (to replace the crappy stock trees)

Is there anything I'm leaving out, & is there anything I'd need to change (like the pot taper)???

[muttley]

Just one thing minor, Why not use push pull pots and maybe a blender instead of the mini toggles?

While you are getting bits, add a 47mfd cap as well. Maybe a few other pot values to tinker with just in case, they dont cost a lot.. You can then tinker away to your hearts content and try what works for you.

[WhiskeyJack]

Awesome thread here boys.

[Minerman]

Just one thing minor, Why not use push pull pots and maybe a blender instead of the mini toggles?

While you are getting bits, add a 47mfd cap as well. Maybe a few other pot values to tinker with just in case, they dont cost a lot.. You can then tinker away to your hearts content and try what works for you.

Just to be honest, I thought the mini toggles would be more simple, like my mind...

I do have a couple/few 250k pots lying around here, so I'll go ahead & pick up some different pots while I'm at it dude...

[muttley]

All a push pull pot is, is a pot with a switch attached. The wiring is the same as the pot has three lugs attached to the pot part and the switch part sits on the case and has the same lugs as a dpdt switch. The guys will bare me out that they are just as simple. Its just a matter of choice if you want discrete switches. You can get then in sizes to fit is strat routes.

[Minerman]

All a push pull pot is, is a pot with a switch attached. The wiring is the same as the pot has three lugs attached to the pot part and the switch part sits on the case and has the same lugs as a dpdt switch. The guys will bare me out that they are just as simple. Its just a matter of choice if you want discrete switches. You can get then in sizes to fit is strat routes.

Going back to the Ibanez I keep yappin' about, it had a push/push volume pot which split the bridge p'up...I may go that route Mutt, I'm not at all worried about hacking the strat's body as long as the pickguard covers it up...

Just for shits-n-giggles, here is the Ibanez I keep referring to in a magazine ad from the 80's:


Back on topic I'm gonna go ahead & buy a few extra parts just in case I wanna change my mind at the last minute...

The new pickups should make my strat a completely different animal, or so I hope anyway...The biggest reason I don't want high-output p'ups is I want it to still have the Fender-y twang when I want it, plus have the ability for the dirt sounds too...

I'm actually getting pretty stoked about this man, it'll be almost like getting a new guitar...

[muttley]

I've ordered in some parts for the single coil as I didnt have those to hand. As soon as they arrive I will be on it. I will try and post up some progress pics as I go. I'm also going to be making a rail pup for my test bed strat so its all good..

[Minerman]

I've ordered in some parts for the single coil as I didnt have those to hand. As soon as they arrive I will be on it. I will try and post up some progress pics as I go. I'm also going to be making a rail pup for my test bed strat so its all good..

Thanks Mutt, I appreciate all your effort dude...
Whether it's actually winding 'em, or just listening & suggesting things you think will make this a better guitar for me...

[Minerman]

I've got a couple more questions for the Guru:

1 - Does the shielding paint completely replace the adhesive-backed foil stuff, do those 2 things work better together, or do I just need to buy some of the foil & stop over-thinking all this like I'm guilty of most of the time???

2 - Say I've got the bridge p'up split in single coil mode, I'll still get a little noise/hum using it on it's own...But if I just slightly raise the volume of the other p'up (barely audible), wouldn't that in theory kill some the hum/noise, plus still give me my single coil-ish sound???

The shielding question is more of a curiosity thing, so that's not a big deal at all...

But I am really interested in what your thoughts are about not even using a selector switch on this guitar, instead just use 2 volume (push/pull), & 2 tone pots...


I'm getting giddy like a little kid over here dude, there have been little lyric/melody/riff parts come into my (small) mind the last little while, & I've been writing 'em down/recording little clips/taking notes on my ideas, some of which have been really late at night, but I jumped up to get the ideas saved so I don't forget 'em...Some of which are specific to some of the tones that come to mind with this "new" guitar...I can already hear the slide on the neck p'up blooming into feedback in some of the things I'm "hearing" in my head... Everybody here knows I'm a big 80's hair metal fan, but I'm really just a simple, ham-fisted, pentatonic blues player...

I'm also getting pumped about this "new" guitar because it should give me some pretty different tones than the guitars I've been using all this time...I know I'm always gonna sound like me no matter what, but it would be very cool to sound like me playing through completely different sounding rigs that would be distinguishable from one another...

Sorry about the long-winded post here, but I'm getting pretty excited over here...

[muttley]

1. Shielding is shielding. The only way you would improve over the paint of foil would be to use silver or lead.. Go with what is easiest for you.

2. Yes and no. You can do that but you wont get the full single coil colour and tone. You would effectively have a dummy coil which drain some of the inductance out of your active coil. Try it and you will see what I mean. You would also have to make sure that the polarity of the two coils are opposite and the wind direction the same or you would end up with a phase cancelling issue. Essentially though that is how noiseless single coils work, they have a dummy coil that hum cancels. They also bleed some tone.

I'm gonna chuck up some stuff to ask you shortly..

[muttley]

OK miner, I have the bobbins for the rail pup and I have made up a baseplate. First thing first, how comfortable are you with modifying the scratchplate? because as with all things strat these will not drop right into a standard pickgurad..


You can see from the attached pics that you will need to square off the ends of the opening to let this thing through. The route in the body and the mounting holes should be ok..

prailparts1.jpg

prailparts2.jpg

prailparts3.jpg

prailparts4.jpg

prailparts5.jpg

prailparts6.jpg

[Minerman]

OK miner, I have the bobbins for the rail pup and I have made up a baseplate. First thing first, how comfortable are you with modifying the scratchplate? because as with all things strat these will not drop right into a standard pickgurad..


You can see from the attached pics that you will need to square off the ends of the opening to let this thing through. The route in the body and the mounting holes should be ok..

On my questions, I'll just go with the shielding tape, which was probably what I was gonna do anyway, I was really just asking about the paint...

Since you've made me understand the split coil thing a bit better, I'll go ahead & use a selector switch too Mutt...

It's kinda funny you ask how comfy I am modifying my pickguard...I'd decided to buy a pickguard cut for a single humbucker, then cut the rest myself...I'd mainly decided on that because of the price ($30 for a pre-cut H-S vs. about $15 for the single H cut), but it'll be fine dude...I'll use my original for the template, just put 'em together, mark what needs cut with a Sharpie, then cut it out...Shouldn't be a problem...

[muttley]

Sounds like a plan. I can send a plastic template to mark the cut with the pup if it helps.. That way you can drill the mounting holes and hopefully the template will then tell you exactly what cut to make...

I'll be on this next week hopefully. I have some stuff to clear early the week then I'm all yours.

[muttley]

OK, here;s is what I'd do.

Bubba's Muttbucker was specifically designed as a neck pocket pup to balance out with his Mutt90 in the bridge but there are some characteristics that I would keep. .........................

As Bubba has now pointed out to me (twice now) so my bad, his was built the other way with the Muttbucker going in the Bridge and the original B90 in the neck. It was JD I did the subsequent neck pup to match his bridge bucker... My bad and sorry for the the confusion. I am not going to edit the original post so you can all remind me later that I do get things muddled when I post sometimes...

Bubba, let me know...

[Minerman]

Sounds like a plan. I can send a plastic template to mark the cut with the pup if it helps.. That way you can drill the mounting holes and hopefully the template will then tell you exactly what cut to make...

I'll be on this next week hopefully. I have some stuff to clear early the week then I'm all yours.

If making the template is an extra step for you, don't, you're a busy guy...I'm sure once I get my first cut to match the original pickguard, it won't take much to make your p'up fit dude...

[muttley]

All part of the service mate. I'll make a note and try and remember...

[Minerman]

All part of the service mate. I'll make a note and try and remember...

Check your pm's...