I've Heard Mutt's P'ups are dawg-gone good

[WhiskeyJack]

Rails are generally considered better.

[WhiskeyJack]

Oh wait.. we aren't talking about drugs are we. I'll just pop on out outta here.

[muttley]

Oh wait.. we aren't talking about drugs are we. I'll just pop on out outta here.

We call them lines, so yeh, on yer bike...

[Minerman]

I'd seriously consider a rail design over a stacked design. There are some sound reason for that in their ability to actually hum cancel. A stacked design does it in a different way to a rail design and the latter is far more effective. It has to do with how the polarity of the magnets are oriented and the inductance of both coils. Rails are generally considered better. Your call though...

Thanks Mutt...the reason I mentioned a stacked 'bucker is I had an Ibanez years ago that had 'em & thought it sounded good...Those p'ups weren't real hot & they still had some of the single coil bite to 'em, but the best part was no hum/noise...

See what you can figure out & we'll take it from there dude...

[muttley]

TBH miner, I'm going to have to look into this a lot more deeply than I first thought. I would pretty much have to design the thing from the ground up. Currently I wouldnt want to put my name on something that I wouldnt be confident using myself. Sorry but have to be honest.There are some inherent issues with stacked single coils which is why not many people do them. If you are going to mix it in with other pups that adds to the potential problems. Rail pickups as I said no problem, I've done them with good results and they hum cancel

[Minerman]

TBH miner, I'm going to have to look into this a lot more deeply than I first thought. I would pretty much have to design the thing from the ground up. Currently I wouldnt want to put my name on something that I wouldnt be confident using myself. Sorry but have to be honest.There are some inherent issues with stacked single coils which is why not many people do them. If you are going to mix it in with other pups that adds to the potential problems. Rail pickups as I said no problem, I've done them with good results and they hum cancel

No problem Mutt, I understand 100% about putting your name on something dude...The rail p'up may even be better, I've never used one, the reason I mentioned the stacked p'ups is I have experience with 'em, although it was years ago...

Let's just look into a regular, full sized humbucker for the bridge & a rail for the neck...The middle p'up is something I rarely use, so I've been thinking about just dropping it altogether...I'm also thinking of a couple on/off switches for each p'up instead of a 3-way...

I don't want super-hot output, I want 'em to be fairly clean because I can always add gain/boost/whatever...I can always add, but if they're smokin' hot, it's hard to take away...

Just take your time dude, I know you've got a lot on your plate, & from what everyone says, your p'ups deliver, so it's worth the wait to me...

[muttley]

TBH miner, I'm going to have to look into this a lot more deeply than I first thought. I would pretty much have to design the thing from the ground up. Currently I wouldnt want to put my name on something that I wouldnt be confident using myself. Sorry but have to be honest.There are some inherent issues with stacked single coils which is why not many people do them. If you are going to mix it in with other pups that adds to the potential problems. Rail pickups as I said no problem, I've done them with good results and they hum cancel

No problem Mutt, I understand 100% about putting your name on something dude...The rail p'up may even be better, I've never used one, the reason I mentioned the stacked p'ups is I have experience with 'em, although it was years ago...

Let's just look into a regular, full sized humbucker for the bridge & a rail for the neck...The middle p'up is something I rarely use, so I've been thinking about just dropping it altogether...I'm also thinking of a couple on/off switches for each p'up instead of a 3-way...

I don't want super-hot output, I want 'em to be fairly clean because I can always add gain/boost/whatever...I can always add, but if they're smokin' hot, it's hard to take away...

Just take your time dude, I know you've got a lot on your plate, & from what everyone says, your p'ups deliver, so it's worth the wait to me...

So let me just rewind a bit here....

You are looking for a standard (ish) MuttBucker for the bridge? Is this on a strat? How you going to mount it?
A rail pup for the neck? Is this on the same strat?

More questions, sorry about that but I like to get stuff right.

I can make them as hot or smooth as you like so not a worry.. smooth and clean it is..

[Minerman]

So let me just rewind a bit here....

You are looking for a standard (ish) MuttBucker for the bridge? Is this on a strat? How you going to mount it?
A rail pup for the neck? Is this on the same strat?

More questions, sorry about that but I like to get stuff right.

I can make them as hot or smooth as you like so not a worry.. smooth and clean it is..

Sorry dude...

A standard(ish) MuttBucker for the bridge & a rail p'up for the neck of this strat, which will both mount on a pickguard:


I would want both p'ups to be white, & we can discuss how hot they'll be, I just know already I don't want anything super-hot...

Sorry for the confusion dude...

[muttley]

No confusion, its just become a habit of mine to double check I'm on the same page as people I do work for.

That all sounds like a plan.

Last few questions.. What is the string spacing on the humbucker? I can go to 52mm, Strat is normall max 53 at the bridge.

How hot do you want them...

[Minerman]

No confusion, its just become a habit of mine to double check I'm on the same page as people I do work for.

That all sounds like a plan.

I've been wanting to get that guitar back into action for a while now, & I've always wanted a 2 humbucker strat (single coil sized rail in the neck)...A new pickguard & 2 off/on toggles instead of a 3-way switch is what I'm planning...It's an extra switch to get to the same place, but the Ibanez I keep talking about was set up like that, & yet again, I liked it, a lot...

Last few questions.. What is the string spacing on the humbucker? I can go to 52mm, Strat is normall max 53 at the bridge.

Just to be honest Mutt, the string spacing is you call, I'll leave that up to you for what you think would be the best since you're the guru...

How hot do you want them...

Here's where I'm really gonna trust your input dude...

I've mentioned I don't want super hot p'ups for this, so in your opinion, how low do you think they should be dude??? I do play with crunchy to dirty sounds 90% of the time, but like I've mentioned, I can always add if needed with the gain knob on the amp, or throw a pedal in the chain...

For the bridge p'up, reading through your other p'up builds for the other guys here, Bubba Bucker at abour 9k stuck out to me...You wound it just a little hotter than the BK Riff Raff, put your guru "mojo" into it, & he seemed to like it, a lot...Even though it's slightly hotter, Bubba says it has more clarity & pick attack, which seems like that's the direction I'd wanna go...My Gibson p'ups are 490's, which are around 8k, AFAIk, & I like them, especially in the SG...

But, since this is a strat's bridge position, would you suggest having similar specs to the Bubba Bucker, or something different??? Lemme know what your thoughts are on this Mutt...You're the p'up guru here, I'm just a ham-fisted hillbilly that likes to make noise, so again, I'm gonna trust you on this dude...

For the neck, I'd want close to the same, but maybe just a tad lower output for the single-coil "bite", with no hum/noise...

Lemme know what you think on this Mutt...

[JD01]

Miner - I think you'd like my bridge Mutt-bucker. Its 10.5k, is aggressive, but retains clarity across the strings and doesn't turn to mush. I don't know Mutt has achieved this, see if he thinks it would be suitable for you.

[Greg_L]

Miner, I know this aint my project, but I'm thinking you'd want something hotter than 8 or 9k. "9k" is just kind of general anyway. You can go for a little more output but still have the clarity you seek. You can "vintage" it up with an A2 magnet and unbalanced winding if you wanted like a slightly hot "PAF" type humbucker.

[muttley]

OK, here;s is what I'd do.

Bubba's Muttbucker was specifically designed as a neck pocket pup to balance out with his Mutt90 in the bridge but there are some characteristics that I would keep. Since we are going to be pairing this with a rail style in the neck I would start there. I'm going to order up some bobbins for that and see how many turns I can comfortably get on them. A single coil size is going to take less copper than a bucker so the output is going to be determined by the single coil. I would anticipate that we would end up in the 8k range for the bucker which would be just fine for what you want and also keep the main characteristics that Bubba's MuttBucker has, ie, good clarity and enough output to push an amp when needed.. Sort of a classic PAF. If we can go hotter I would use an Alnico 2 to take some of the bite and dirt out of it if you want it lower. A lot will depend on what we can do with the rail pup..

I would also go for a coil split on the Bucker so that you can switch to a single coil in the bridge if you want. Bubba claimed his had quite a bit of oomph and didnt bleed out when switched. That would be a good bonus.

Let me get some rail bobbins spun up and we will base the rest on how much output we can get from that. Ideally we want a hotter output than a normal single coil strat pup as hum cancelling also robs some output..... Leave it with me.

Stay tuned.

[muttley]

I dont suppose you have any recordings of that old Ibanez you keep referring to? Or a clip of something similar? In our world of tone a soundclip speaks a thousand words..

[muttley]

Miner, I know this aint my project, but I'm thinking you'd want something hotter than 8 or 9k. "9k" is just kind of general anyway. You can go for a little more output but still have the clarity you seek. You can "vintage" it up with an A2 magnet and unbalanced winding if you wanted like a slightly hot "PAF" type humbucker.

Ideally I would say yeh, but paired with a single coil sized strat pup thats gonna dominate if you aint careful. I recon I can still get a good grunt and clarity on an 8-9K... I'd like to pair the two as well as possible, a lot will depend how bright and punchy I can get the rail pup.. I would be guided by that if I was doing this for myself. Start with what you cant affect then pull what you can in to match it..

[Greg_L]

Ideally I would say yeh, but paired with a single coil sized strat pup thats gonna dominate if you aint careful. I recon I can still get a good grunt and clarity on an 8-9K... I'd like to pair the two as well as possible, a lot will depend how bright and punchy I can get the rail pup.. I would be guided by that if I was doing this for myself. Start with what you cant affect then pull what you can in to match it..

How does SD get their rail-buckers so hot? They're crazy hot.

And couldn't just raising/lowering the pickups balance them out? Obviously you don't want a huge mismatch, but a little bit of adjustment goes a long way.

[muttley]

They use a ceramic magnet which I wouldnt want to do. They also use 44awg wire which I can do. It maybe I can get a nice output from the rails bobbins. I think I can but I want to do that first then adjust the bridge pup to that. Its easier to tinker with the bucker than the rail... with the rail you are limited to the size of the bobbins and the types of magnet available. With the bucker I can tinker with loads of stuff. This would be the first time I have matched a bucker and a rail so I want to get it right.. Its a learning curve for me too..

Yes you can tinker with the set up too but again a bit like getting a decent clean track laid down is easier than trying to mix it about in the DAW..

[Greg_L]

Sure, I understand.

[Minerman]

Miner, I know this aint my project, but I'm thinking you'd want something hotter than 8 or 9k. "9k" is just kind of general anyway. You can go for a little more output but still have the clarity you seek. You can "vintage" it up with an A2 magnet and unbalanced winding if you wanted like a slightly hot "PAF" type humbucker.

Well dude, to be honest, this is new territory for me, so any input you, or any of the other Tonetards would be greatly appreciated...

Looking at how hot some p'ups are did surprise me though, the Duncan Custom Custom I have is around 14k, which I expected...I tried that p'up in the guitar being prodded, & took it out faster than I put it in...It was just really harsh in the strat...In the Ibanez I currently have, it's pretty good, but that's also the guitar I used when I was on the big VH tone chase a few years ago...

For the strat, of course I want rock sounds, I grew up in the 80's, but I also want it to be very different from anything else I have (SG, LP & Ibanez, all with humbuckers)...

[Minerman]

I dont suppose you have any recordings of that old Ibanez you keep referring to? Or a clip of something similar? In our world of tone a soundclip speaks a thousand words..

No Mutt, that thing has been gone for years dude...I might be able to find a clip of that thing online, but dunno if it'd be any help...The Ibanez I currently have wouldn't be any help either I don't think...