Recording Rebels membership exclusive! Speaker cab impulses!

[Greg_L]

Update to this dusty old thread...

Just now, like merely an hour ago, I made my own speaker cab impulses. Well, two of them, just to see if it works. And...it does!

So in the coming days/weeks/months I'll be making a complete package of my own impulses from my own cabs and mics....so you can sound just like me!

J/K no one wants that. But if you use sims and/or IRs and don't have access to monstrous killer Marshall cabs full of the best speakers and a nice selection of mics, you can have these Greg impulses and get one step closer to kicking ass.

Here's what I have to choose from:
Speakers -
Celestion G12M Greenbacks
Celestion Vintage 30
Celestion G12-65
Celestion G12H-30
Celestion G12T-75
WGS Green Beret

Cab Mics-
SM57
Audix i5
Senn e609
Senn MD421
SM7B
MXL R144

That's a lot of mics on a lot of speakers in a lot of positions, so maybe I'll just keep it basic to start. Or maybe take requests if anyone's interested?

[WhiskeyJack]

Update to this dusty old thread...

Just now, like merely an hour ago, I made my own speaker cab impulses. Well, two of them, just to see if it works. And...it does!

So in the coming days/weeks/months I'll be making a complete package of my own impulses from my own cabs and mics....so you can sound just like me!

J/K no one wants that. But if you use sims and/or IRs and don't have access to monstrous killer Marshall cabs full of the best speakers and a nice selection of mics, you can have these Greg impulses and get one step closer to kicking ass.

Here's what I have to choose from:
Speakers -
Celestion G12M Greenbacks
Celestion Vintage 30
Celestion G12-65
Celestion G12H-30
Celestion G12T-75
WGS Green Beret

Cab Mics-
SM57
Audix i5
Senn e609
Senn MD421
SM7B
MXL R144

That's a lot of mics on a lot of speakers in a lot of positions, so maybe I'll just keep it basic to start. Or maybe take requests if anyone's interested?

Sign me up for some MXLR144 IR's in either greenbacks, or T75's or both.


Secondly, how did you do this?

[rayc]

EXCELLENT.
Adventures in technology with Greg!

[Greg_L]

Sign me up for some MXLR144 IR's in either greenbacks, or T75's or both.

Okay!

Just so you know, that's a figure-8 ribbon mic and it can sound pretty dark. But I'll give it a shot.

Secondly, how did you do this?

The way I'm doing it is I got this deconvolver plug in that is basically a digital sorcerer. I think all it's doing is a phase reversal, but I'm not sure. I'm still in the testing phase but it does work perfectly.

So...here's the process:

You mic your cab/speakers as you would normally. No problem. Open up the Deconvolver program and generate a test tone, which is nothing more than a sine sweep from low to high. The test tone gets created as a wav file. Save it somewhere. Bring that test tone wav into the DAW. Once in the DAW you need to send that test tone wav out and record an input at the same time. So you set up the routing so the test tone goes into the effects loop return of whatever amp you wanna use, and that test tone running through the power section of the amp hits the speaker and mics and you record it. It has to bypass the preamp stages. All you want is clean signal through the power amp. If you don't have an amp with an fx loop, I don't know how you'd get around this part. I used my JVM. It has an fx loop and can be slaved for just the power amp. So you have to sit there with a sine wave sweep blasting though the amp for about 10 seconds or so. The dogs hated it. Anyway, the sweep goes through the amp and gets recorded through the speaker and mic. It's kind of like reamping in that regard. You send a signal out, and re-record it.

So now you have a ten second or so mic capture of that signal going through your amp, speaker, mic, and mic placement. Bounce that track out as a wav. Go back into the Deconvolver program and point the program at the original test tone wav, and the recorded track you just made. The program will wave a magic wand and do some voodoo and "process" the original test tone against what you recorded and you're left with the IR of that speaker, mic, and mic placement to be used however you'd normally use cab IRs. Voila!

[WhiskeyJack]

Sign me up for some MXLR144 IR's in either greenbacks, or T75's or both.

Okay!

Just so you know, that's a figure-8 ribbon mic and it can sound pretty dark. But I'll give it a shot.

Secondly, how did you do this?

The way I'm doing it is I got this deconvolver plug in that is basically a digital sorcerer. I think all it's doing is a phase reversal, but I'm not sure. I'm still in the testing phase but it does work perfectly.

So...here's the process:

You mic your cab/speakers as you would normally. No problem. Open up the Deconvolver program and generate a test tone, which is nothing more than a sine sweep from low to high. The test tone gets created as a wav file. Save it somewhere. Bring that test tone wav into the DAW. Once in the DAW you need to send that test tone wav out and record an input at the same time. So you set up the routing so the test tone goes into the effects loop return of whatever amp you wanna use, and that test tone running through the power section of the amp hits the speaker and mics and you record it. It has to bypass the preamp stages. All you want is clean signal through the power amp. If you don't have an amp with an fx loop, I don't know how you'd get around this part. I used my JVM. It has an fx loop and can be slaved for just the power amp. So you have to sit there with a sine wave sweep blasting though the amp for about 10 seconds or so. The dogs hated it. Anyway, the sweep goes through the amp and gets recorded through the speaker and mic. It's kind of like reamping in that regard. You send a signal out, and re-record it.

So now you have a ten second or so mic capture of that signal going through your amp, speaker, mic, and mic placement. Bounce that track out as a wav. Go back into the Deconvolver program and point the program at the original test tone wav, and the recorded track you just made. The program will wave a magic wand and do some voodoo and "process" the original test tone against what you recorded and you're left with the IR of that speaker, mic, and mic placement to be used however you'd normally use cab IRs. Voila!

That is awesome. I always wondered how they did that shit. Well that should keep you plenty busy for a few days if you decide to undertake all that.

[Greg_L]

That is awesome. I always wondered how they did that shit. Well that should keep you plenty busy for a few days if you decide to undertake all that.

The worst part is is that damn test tone running through the amp. It's annoying as hell, and doing that repeatedly for each mic on each speaker over and over and over will be bonkers.

[Tadpui]

That's awesome, Greg!

What are you using to host impulses in your DAW? I tried to use ReaVerb but the latency is horrible. I can't play through it realtime, it's so bad.

Oh and your comment about the dogs made me chuckle. I had to replace all of the 8 (?!?) smoke alarms in my house today. It was a demand by the buyers, so I had to do it. Anyways, as I replaced each one I tested it to make sure that it and all of the others in the house went off like they should. When I was done an hour later, I found our little dog quivering on the couch, and our big dog sitting at attention in the middle of the back yard. I think that I discovered that smoke alarms blasting through the entire house is not a dog favorite. Probably very similar to how a sine sweep sounds through a cranked Marshall cab

[Greg_L]

That's awesome, Greg!

What are you using to host impulses in your DAW? I tried to use ReaVerb but the latency is horrible. I can't play through it realtime, it's so bad.

I agree. Reaverb is useless in real time. I don't know how to do it in real time. I've only ever used it for reverb IRs, but it will work with the cab IRs after the fact. Like if you record a line out from the head you can apply the cab IRs to the nasty direct out track. It does work like that quite well. But real time? No idea.

I use an old SIR too. I haven't tried it in real time, but I will and get back to you. I don't use cab IRs for anything, but they're neat to have and I figured I'd give it a shot of my own. I know my cabs are awesome, and my speakers are awesome, and I have all the usual mics. If I can figure out this IR shit, maybe I can make some nice ones and yall can have them if you use them.

Oh and your comment about the dogs made me chuckle. I had to replace all of the 8 (?!?) smoke alarms in my house today. It was a demand by the buyers, so I had to do it. Anyways, as I replaced each one I tested it to make sure that it and all of the others in the house went off like they should. When I was done an hour later, I found our little dog quivering on the couch, and our big dog sitting at attention in the middle of the back yard. I think that I discovered that smoke alarms blasting through the entire house is not a dog favorite. Probably very similar to how a sine sweep sounds through a cranked Marshall cab

Ha yeah dogs are nuts. My dogs couldn't care less about cranked Plexis or drums. My wiener dogs (RIP) hated the drums, but these new dogs don't care. That sine wave got their attention though.

I also have all my smoke alarms linked together so if one goes off, they all go off. It's a pain in the ass when a battery goes dead. Which one is it? I don't know. Best just to replace the battery in all of them.

[Minerman]

[mention]Greg_L[/mention] : Sign me up for any & all the IR's you make from your awesome, kick-ass collection of speakers/cabs/mics dude...Just to be honest, I'd like as many mic positions as you're willing to make (IE: .5" from grill, 1" from grill, .5" off-axis, etc)...I'm very interested in this, especially the speakers/mics I don't have, but that could get into a pretty time consuming effort, so again, I'll take any & all the IR's you make...

What are you using to host impulses in your DAW? I tried to use ReaVerb but the latency is horrible. I can't play through it realtime, it's so bad.

[mention]Tadpui[/mention]: Here are a couple IR loaders I've tried & I'm able to use 'em in real time any way I wanna, for example:

• line out from attenuator > daw

• gtr > interface > ampsim > IR loader

Lancaster Audio Pulse

Ignite Amps NadIR

I think you can reduce the latency with ReaVerb by tweaking the FFT value in the lower right corner, but it stresses the cpu a lot like lowering the buffer rate for your interface...So I think a lower FFT value = lower latency, but with added cpu hit....

Rosen Digital also has basically the same thing as Pulse, only difference is the name AFAIK...

NadIR is interesting because it has it's own room sound & the ability to blend several IR's, but the routing is kinda funky until you understand it...

I also use Amplitube 4's cabs & I like it quite a bit...Just remember to bypass the amp section (and/or any dirt/od pedals) or it will sound like shit...Using the different input routing features, you can run multiple cabs, multiple mics, & multiple room mics, with panning options for each...With all the different cabs, speakers, mics, etc there are a lot of options for the speaker/cab/mic simulations, & that's not even mentioning the ability to use AT4's effects as a "simulated effects loop" being sure the fx are always before the cabs...As far as that goes, you can also just insert any fx in the signal chain before AT4 & achieve the same result...

Since I'm on a roll here, I finally got around to trying some vst effects ran into my amp's fx loop via the hardware in/out on my interface...This didn't sound any better than running the vst's through the front of my amp like I hoped it would...I thought maybe modulation fx might sound more natural actually being in the amp's fx loop, & I guess it's still possible with more tweaking (IE: possibly use an eq plugin to kinda "dull" the high end & not sound so funky/digital), but I'm convinced just using actual pedals will always sound better, plus, it'd be a lot simpler...

[Greg_L]

[mention]Tadpui[/mention]

The SIR does not work in real time. I tried it last night. Same big latency as Reaverb.
The NadIR minerman posted does work very well in real time!

[rayc]

Upon reflection, I've done a couple of songs recently that had very little, if any, mic'd cab in them - when I was going for 80s ness I suppose - so impulses would be good for stuff from a multi FX unit. Please put me on the subscription list.

[SweetDan]

What are you using to host impulses in your DAW? I tried to use ReaVerb but the latency is horrible. I can't play through it realtime, it's so bad.

Here are a couple IR loaders I've tried & I'm able to use 'em in real time any way I wanna, for example:

• line out from attenuator > daw

• gtr > interface > ampsim > IR loader

Lancaster Audio Pulse

Ignite Amps NadIR

Adding on to this, Studio One has a stock amp sim plugin that will take user supplied IRs. This video does a pretty good job of explaining it (clearest explanation starts at 7:23):

[BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6qull- ... u.be&t=443[/BBvideo]

[vomitHatSteve]

Ignite Amps NadIR

That's been my go-to for some years now.

The one gotcha I've encountered is that if your file paths change at all (e.g. you get a new hard drive), there's no easy way for the plugin to find the new IRs. It will load with the old paths listed but unreadable because it cuts them off. Then you have to remember what file you were using while you map the new path.

[Greg_L]

Okay [mention]WhiskeyJack[/mention] and whoever else...

I made a little test run today. Four basic IRs:

Celestion Greenback
MXL R144 Ribbon mic (requested)
All 1 inch off grill
Center speaker, dustcap/cone seam, middle cone, and cone edge.
All 24/44.1

These are the four most typical mic placements on a speaker as far as I can tell.

I need some testers. Yall try em out if you use this sort of thing. PM me for the download link.

[Greg_L]

Hey [mention]Tadpui[/mention]

Check this out. You can do zero latency with Reaverb.

reaverb.jpg

Check that "ZL" box before you load an impulse and boom you're good to go. I just tested it. Works great.

[Tadpui]

Hey @Tadpui

Check this out. You can do zero latency with Reaverb.

Check that "ZL" box before you load an impulse and boom you're good to go. I just tested it. Works great.

Oh that's awesome! I'm still guitar-less so it'll be another couple of weeks before I can give this a try with your impulses, but I'm looking forward to it!

[Minerman]

Okay @WhiskeyJack and whoever else...

I made a little test run today. Four basic IRs:

Celestion Greenback
MXL R144 Ribbon mic (requested)
All 1 inch off grill
Center speaker, dustcap/cone seam, middle cone, and cone edge.
All 24/44.1

These are the four most typical mic placements on a speaker as far as I can tell.

I need some testers. Yall try em out if you use this sort of thing. PM me for the download link.

I won't be able to try these out until this time next week, my entire setup is dismantled until the floor is replaced, & it's the last room...I'll grab 'em in a few days...Thanks man...

[Greg_L]

I won't be able to try these out until this time next week, my entire setup is dismantled until the floor is replaced, & it's the last room...I'll grab 'em in a few days...Thanks man...

[WhiskeyJack]

Well sir. I never had latency issues with the hybrit + reaverb combo for IR's before but lemme tell ya.

That ZL button isn't working over here. not sure whats going on. I suspect something deep within the matrix of it 18120 i wager. open to suggestions

[Greg_L]

Well sir. I never had latency issues with the hybrit + reaverb combo for IR's before but lemme tell ya.

That ZL button isn't working over here. not sure whats going on. I suspect something deep within the matrix of it 18120 i wager. open to suggestions

The Reaverb ZL button only works for me if I check it before the IR is loaded.

Other than that, check your 18i20 buffer settings or whatever the fuck they call it.

I'm getting near zero latency in my test runs. Like 1.9ms, which is nothing.