The Tone Thread

[rammer24]

I finally remembered what the solo tone sounds like - Green Eyed Lady - which was a favorite when I was young. Not the same pattern of course but that classic twang.

HA! You're right. Funny how things creep into our sub-conscious. Not only does the lead sound a bit like "Green Eyed....", but even the rythm section under it has a similar feel. Never even crossed my mind, but the influence is definitely there now that you mention it.

That solo bass is tighter than a nun's **** how are you recording that and keeping it so even?

Thanx. I use an Ibanez bass with active pick-ups, plugged straight into my interface. I use a hard pick and play hard. Besides that, 4:1 compression to get about 4-6db of reduction...and Bob's your uncle.

[Lt. Bob]

Greg ----sounds great man.
The loss of noise is worth the entire exercise.
I'm impressed with the bare knuckles ...... I have been reading about them .... I have a git I'm gonna put some p'ups in and I want to go higher end than GF so I've been looking.
I'm kinda thinking Lollar but these things sound really good so maybe BareKnuckles might be the way to go ..... I'll have to spend some time really listening to these clips .... very nice.

As for the sound ..... I actually like both sets of p'ups .... the bare knuckles do the clean roll-off thing much better ( but that could be the changing of pots to some degree) but once they're cranked I like the sound of either set .... they both sound good. The Bare Knuckles are SO clean and articulate that I miss a bit of that traditional 'bucker murk but then when I hear the T-tops I miss the clarity of the BK's .... soundwise it's sorta a toss-up for me.
But the lack of noise is a deciding factor 'cause man, that thing is quiet now!

As for coil splitting ..... yes, you only use one coil but if you really think it sounds like a single coil plug your strat in ..... big difference.
The thing is .... even though you cut out the one coil .... that magnet is still there .... and it affects the sound. It pulls on the string over a larger area and absolutely affects the sound.
Like my P-Rails ..... I like 'em but the P90 is only P90-like and the blade single coil is only single coil-like

To my ears splitting a 'bucker gets a sort of single coil sound but it's really its own sound.
Certainly not 'bucker sounding but also not really single coil sounding ..... more of a cross between the two .... to my ears I repeat. THAT'S TO MY EARS lol

disclaimer: the above comments do not represent the views of greg-l enterprises or any subsidiaries thereof.

[Lt. Bob]

Rammer ..... great playing and musical ideas like always.

You're one of the few guys whose musical ideas are so good I kinda don't care about the tone too much.
ANY tone you use would sound good with the stuff you play.

[rammer24]

Rammer ..... great playing and musical ideas like always.

You're one of the few guys whose musical ideas are so good I kinda don't care about the tone too much.
ANY tone you use would sound good with the stuff you play.

Wow man! Thanx a lot. I really appreciate that.


(Soooooo....you saying my tone sucks?)

[Lt. Bob]

lol .......
Actually I'm not as big a tone searcher as you guys.
I hear the differences, of course .... but, I very rarely go searching for a tone that I envision being the proper tone for something.
I almost do it the opposite ..... I get whatever tone I get with whatever amp or git I happen to grab and then what I play gets driven by that.
I play to the tone rather than try to get a pre-conceived tone.

I appreciate the stuff you guys do and it does inform what I do when I record but I'm simply not that obsessive over tiny details of tone.

I can go find awesome records with absolutely any possible tone .... from lo-fi microphonic crappy Teisco gits to the very highest end stuff .... there someone who's made awesome music with it.
I'm more about the music than I am about tones.
That's why I always like your stuff ..... creative and inventive playing .... that's where it's at for me.
I also appreciate Greg's playing ..... he dismisses his skills but he's bad-ass ..... super precise and consistent .... musicianship is what gets me excited and he ( and you ) have it in spades. Maybe it's because that's what I get hired to do.
No one ever hires me because of tone .... they hire me for what I play ..... so I suppose that's where my focus is with you guys too.

When I play live I NEVER attempt to replicate the tone of anyone.
I play the way I play with the tone I like.
If my rendition of a song sounds different than the record, that's good ..... my concept is basically I play things the way the guys that recorded it wished they had.

[Greg_L]

OK, updated the file. Tamed the guitars a bit.

NIGHT OF THE GIVING HEAD

Yes indeed, this is better to me. Less gain = better clarity. Still sounds heavy and crunchy, but less fizzy.

[Greg_L]

OK, I've got around to this. Clip 1 is my reference clip. Using my previous amp settings, an EQ pedal and a condenser dialed into give it a bit of thickness.


Clip 2: Ocnors suggested amp settings, no EQ pedal - mics as above


Clip 3: Ocnors suggested amp settings, EQ pedal - mics as above.


Clip 4: Ocnors settings, Emulated out, no EQ Pedal


Clip 5: Ocnors settings, Emulated out, EQ Pedal


Any tips you think you can give me would be appreciated.

EDIT: Here's another one - its the same as clip 3 but with the condenser dialed out completely and I think it improves it.

Okay, for me, out of all of those, the very last "edit" clip sounds best. Ocnor's settings with EQ pedal no condenser sounds best.

Reference - meh, kind of thin.
Clip 2 - no, just no. Muddy, dark, murky, boxy. No.
Clip 3 - Pretty good. Second best.
Clip 4 - Emulated out. Not terrible, but kind of flat, no life.
Clip 5 - No. Harsh, flat, too thin.
The last one - just right.

Ocnor's suggestion helped your tone IMO. And like I was saying, your EQ pedal is acting too much on the low end. When you dialed the lows back into the amp, and then shaped it with EQ, you improved.

[JD01]

OK, I've got around to this. Clip 1 is my reference clip. Using my previous amp settings, an EQ pedal and a condenser dialed into give it a bit of thickness.


Clip 2: Ocnors suggested amp settings, no EQ pedal - mics as above


Clip 3: Ocnors suggested amp settings, EQ pedal - mics as above.


Clip 4: Ocnors settings, Emulated out, no EQ Pedal


Clip 5: Ocnors settings, Emulated out, EQ Pedal


Any tips you think you can give me would be appreciated.

EDIT: Here's another one - its the same as clip 3 but with the condenser dialed out completely and I think it improves it.

Okay, for me, out of all of those, the very last "edit" clip sounds best. Ocnor's settings with EQ pedal no condenser sounds best.

Reference - meh, kind of thin.
Clip 2 - no, just no. Muddy, dark, murky, boxy. No.
Clip 3 - Pretty good. Second best.
Clip 4 - Emulated out. Not terrible, but kind of flat, no life.
Clip 5 - No. Harsh, flat, too thin.
The last one - just right.

Ocnor's suggestion helped your tone IMO. And like I was saying, your EQ pedal is acting too much on the low end. When you dialed the lows back into the amp, and then shaped it with EQ, you improved.

Yeah, I've noticed that too. Cheers Ocnor.

Since then I spent 20 minutes sitting right in front of the amp on deaf old bastard TV volume and tweaked it a little further, put a little more treble in and put the ISF more to the USA. I also took the tiny 100hz boost out of the EQ pedal and put it back to 0.

Won't be able to record until next weekend now but it's nice to be inching ever closer to my sound!

[Greg_L]

Greg ----sounds great man.
The loss of noise is worth the entire exercise.
I'm impressed with the bare knuckles ...... I have been reading about them .... I have a git I'm gonna put some p'ups in and I want to go higher end than GF so I've been looking.
I'm kinda thinking Lollar but these things sound really good so maybe BareKnuckles might be the way to go ..... I'll have to spend some time really listening to these clips .... very nice.

Thanks Boob. I really try to not put too much importance on online reviews and stuff because most people are knuckleheads, but I've never heard one bad thing said about Bare Knuckle pickups. If you're interested I don't think you'd be disappointed in their stuff. You just gotta wait for it. They're made-to-order in England. Mine took about 3-4 weeks, and that's after sending them a polite email telling them to hurry the fuck up.

As for the sound ..... I actually like both sets of p'ups .... the bare knuckles do the clean roll-off thing much better ( but that could be the changing of pots to some degree) but once they're cranked I like the sound of either set .... they both sound good. The Bare Knuckles are SO clean and articulate that I miss a bit of that traditional 'bucker murk but then when I hear the T-tops I miss the clarity of the BK's .... soundwise it's sorta a toss-up for me.
But the lack of noise is a deciding factor 'cause man, that thing is quiet now!

Agreed. The pots and just overall quieterness of the guitar make the Bare Knuckles roll off A LOT better than the T-Tops. When fully cranked, they do both sound good to me. I never really had any issues with the sound of the T-Tops, but the lack of roll-off and buzz was not very enjoyable. Those issues were not the T-Tops fault. I expect the guitar would behave just as well with new pots, new ground, and with the T-Tops still in there. I do think the Bare Knuckles have better low end and mids than the T-Tops...for the sounds I like to use.

As for coil splitting ..... yes, you only use one coil but if you really think it sounds like a single coil plug your strat in ..... big difference.
The thing is .... even though you cut out the one coil .... that magnet is still there .... and it affects the sound. It pulls on the string over a larger area and absolutely affects the sound.
Like my P-Rails ..... I like 'em but the P90 is only P90-like and the blade single coil is only single coil-like

To my ears splitting a 'bucker gets a sort of single coil sound but it's really its own sound.
Certainly not 'bucker sounding but also not really single coil sounding ..... more of a cross between the two .... to my ears I repeat. THAT'S TO MY EARS lol

disclaimer: the above comments do not represent the views of greg-l enterprises or any subsidiaries thereof.

I agree. a split bucker will never sound exactly like a true single coil. It gets close, but as you say, it's still got that other magnet pulling on the string. It's really a non-issue to me. If I want true single coil, I'm gonna use my P-90 SG or the Hallmark. I'll probably never split live, and I prefer the sound of a rolled off humbucker anyway. To me the splits do have that bright bite like a real single coil, especially when at full power. The roll offs in split mode are decent and clean and chimy, but when the guitar vol is full up in split mode is where to me it really sounds more like a real single coil. The way it bangs and screeches sounds like my Strat. Or enough like my Strat that I may never touch my Strat again...not that I ever really want to.

[rammer24]

lol .......
Actually I'm not as big a tone searcher as you guys.
I hear the differences, of course .... but, I very rarely go searching for a tone that I envision being the proper tone for something.
I almost do it the opposite ..... I get whatever tone I get with whatever amp or git I happen to grab and then what I play gets driven by that.
I play to the tone rather than try to get a pre-conceived tone.

I appreciate the stuff you guys do and it does inform what I do when I record but I'm simply not that obsessive over tiny details of tone.

I can go find awesome records with absolutely any possible tone .... from lo-fi microphonic crappy Teisco gits to the very highest end stuff .... there someone who's made awesome music with it.
I'm more about the music than I am about tones.
That's why I always like your stuff ..... creative and inventive playing .... that's where it's at for me.
I also appreciate Greg's playing ..... he dismisses his skills but he's bad-ass ..... super precise and consistent .... musicianship is what gets me excited and he ( and you ) have it in spades. Maybe it's because that's what I get hired to do.
No one ever hires me because of tone .... they hire me for what I play ..... so I suppose that's where my focus is with you guys too.

When I play live I NEVER attempt to replicate the tone of anyone.
I play the way I play with the tone I like.
If my rendition of a song sounds different than the record, that's good ..... my concept is basically I play things the way the guys that recorded it wished they had.

I totally agree with all of this. I try to find a sound that suits the song/part I'm playing. But I'm more about the song. In the history of rock, some great tones ended up on some shitty songs, and vice versa.

[rammer24]

Yes indeed, this is better to me. Less gain = better clarity. Still sounds heavy and crunchy, but less fizzy.

Great, thanx man. What would I do without you. I was guilty of the "Too much gain on layered guitars" syndrome there. I thought that part needed a barrage of distortion to make it sound heavy, when I should already know it doesn't work that way.

[ido1957]

Yep that bass is sweet. I don't know if the rhythm is that much like G.E.L. the reason I say that is it never crossed my mind until the solo. The rhythm is very original sounding and that's a good thing. You're right about influences - I've stolen everything I've ever done from my subconscience.

[ocnor]

Yeah, I've noticed that too. Cheers Ocnor.

Since then I spent 20 minutes sitting right in front of the amp on deaf old bastard TV volume and tweaked it a little further, put a little more treble in and put the ISF more to the USA. I also took the tiny 100hz boost out of the EQ pedal and put it back to 0.

Won't be able to record until next weekend now but it's nice to be inching ever closer to my sound!

I'm glad that I could help. I was guessing that your EQ settings were starving the speaker of it's needed frequencies and that seems to be the case.

[cakewalkKaKed]

ha! thought you could hide eh?

well,i found you !

[Greg_L]

ha! thought you could hide eh?

well,i found you !

Hey! robus minernuggs

[cakewalkKaKed]

hiya greg! hope all is good for you i see boob made it here

[Greg_L]

hiya greg! hope all is good for you i see boob made it here

Yup, pretty much the whole tone thread gang is here. Still trying to round up a few others before we open the doors for real.

[JD01]

We've been a bit late on new tones lately.

I've been fiddling a bit with my tone this afternoon while working on a new little song. Actually quite a fun song



Got more leads to put on it yet a solo but I want to leave this one pretty bare if I can.

EDIT: And here it is with lead. Didn't have much time to think about this so just did it and it pretty much wrote itself - If I'd have had a whole weekend to dedicate to it it would probably be six minutes long with an interlude and extra bridges.. as it was I just had to grab a few hours between surfing and decorating.

[Greg_L]

We've been a bit late on new tones lately.

I've been fiddling a bit with my tone this afternoon while working on a new little song. Actually quite a fun song



Got more leads to put on it yet a solo but I want to leave this one pretty bare if I can.

EDIT: And here it is with lead. Didn't have much time to think about this so just did it and it pretty much wrote itself - If I'd have had a whole weekend to dedicate to it it would probably be six minutes long with an interlude and extra bridges.. as it was I just had to grab a few hours between surfing and decorating.

I think the the tones are okay. Probably some of your better tones I think. The real problem with this is that skittery drum beat. It makes the whole thing sound sloppy as hell.

[rammer24]

I think the the tones are okay. Probably some of your better tones I think. The real problem with this is that skittery drum beat. It makes the whole thing sound sloppy as hell.

Agreed. Sounds really good. hat drum beat is giving me a nervous twitch, though. The volume seems to be jumping all over the place or something. It's like it should be a pretty straight beat, but the drummer keeps dropping his stick or something.

But the actual sound and guitar tones are great.