The Tone Thread

[Minerman]

Okay miner, here's your clips.

Cool dude, gonna re-amp 'em right now...

[Minerman]

Ok, here's Greg's LP di re-amped through my amp, cab & mics...I set my amp as close as I could to Greg's settings...Basically the exact same signal chain as Greg's except the mic position, that'd be impossible for me to replicate, so I just set the mics as good as I could & hit record...

I recorded a clip using 20w & 5w mode for each mic, & I added a gain plug in Reaper to match what the volume difference 5w mode has as close as I could...

The e609 tracks are a little dull sounding, I should've put the mic closer to the cone, but fuck it, shit happens...

There are 6 tracks in this playlist, if you wanna skip around, just click on the SC waveform toward the end, & the next track will automatically start...I hope...


LP > 2525H > EVH 4x12 > Shure SM57, Audix i5, Sennheiser e609

Presence:4
Bass:7
Mid:6
Treble:4
Output Master:7
Lead Master:10
Input Gain:7

I'm pretty curious to hear your opinions, so lemme know what you guys think...

[Greg_L]

I wish there was a way we could run them through the same cab and mics. I think our different speakers and mic positions negate any differences that would be easily discernible between the heads alone.

But no matter, I think your 20 watt clips sound good. The 5w clips sound flat to me. No life to them. The 20w versions sound good though.

[Minerman]

I wish there was a way we could run them through the same cab and mics. I think our different speakers and mic positions negate any differences that would be easily discernible between the heads alone.

Swing by & pick me up dude...
All shit aside, it would be cool for either of us to have both amps, that would really tell us what's what, but I'm pretty happy with our little experiment overall...

But no matter, I think your 20 watt clips sound good. The 5w clips sound flat to me. No life to them. The 20w versions sound good though.

+1 man, the low power option is nice to have for fucking around, but any keeper tracks will be done in high power mode with either of my amps...

I know the 609 clips I posted suck ass, but I think the 57 & i5 sound pretty similar to your clips...

My verdict on the loss of chunk/bottom is the ISO cab...What say you???

Not sure there's anything I can do to fix that, but it's not that big of a deal really...About the only people who would really notice that are people like us, & some of the clips I've done with the ISO cab have been good enough to use in a mix IMO...I just have to really dial the amp & mic placement in...

[Greg_L]

+1 man, the low power option is nice to have for fucking around, but any keeper tracks will be done in high power mode with either of my amps...

I know the 609 clips I posted suck ass, but I think the 57 & i5 sound pretty similar to your clips...

My verdict on the loss of chunk/bottom is the ISO cab...What say you???

Not sure there's anything I can do to fix that, but it's not that big of a deal really...About the only people who would really notice that are people like us, & some of the clips I've done with the ISO cab have been good enough to use in a mix IMO...I just have to really dial the amp & mic placement in...

I don't think my most recent clips are any more "chunky" than what you just did - and mine were big volume. I spaced my mics off the cab specifically to get away from mega-loudness proximity effect. I usually like some proximity effect, but I wanted to try to avoid it here. I also don't really like any of the clips I did. The i5 is okay, but the 57 is a little fizzy, the 609 is just meh. They definitely sound better to me when blended in some combination. I liked the i5/609 blend when I was going through them. I think you just need to get more familiar with your own mic placement in that isocab and employ careful use of the bass knob on the amp and you'll be good to go.

I think your mini-Jube has all of the telltale sonic characteristics of the big one, so that's good. Just keep it on high power mode!

Least surprisingly for me, I'm convinced again that I just don't like the Jubilee. Playing with it for these last few days just confirms what I already knew about them. I just don't really care for it. I flipped on a Plexi 10 minutes ago and was like....aaaaaaaaaahhhh yes. Lol. So much better for me. I love it when other people play Jubilees though. Weird. Your clips sound good. My buddy Chris rips on this thing. But for me, it's just bleh.

[Minerman]

I think you just need to get more familiar with your own mic placement in that isocab and employ careful use of the bass knob on the amp and you'll be good to go.

+1,000,000 dude, I'm still learning both the amp & ISO cab, so I think the tones I want are there, I just have to buckle down to make 'em happen...

I think your mini-Jube has all of the telltale sonic characteristics of the big one, so that's good. Just keep it on high power mode!

+1 again dude, I'm pretty impressed with this thing...After having experience with 50/100 watters, I know a little amp just won't sound like a big amp, it just can't (or I can't do it), but both the Mini J & the EVH LBX are good little amps that really suits my playing & current noise situation...

Least surprisingly for me, I'm convinced again that I just don't like the Jubilee. Playing with it for these last few days just confirms what I already knew about them. I just don't really care for it. I flipped on a Plexi 10 minutes ago and was like....aaaaaaaaaahhhh yes. Lol. So much better for me. I love it when other people play Jubilees though. Weird. Your clips sound good. My buddy Chris rips on this thing. But for me, it's just bleh.

Yeah man, I get it, I still think the Chupa was the best amp I've ever recorded with, but both amps I have now aren't terrible...To me the Mini J is just different, which to me, is pretty cool, & I like the tones I've been getting with it...

[Greg_L]

+1 again dude, I'm pretty impressed with this thing...After having experience with 50/100 watters, I know a little amp just won't sound like a big amp, it just can't (or I can't do it), but both the Mini J & the EVH LBX are good little amps that really suits my playing & current noise situation...

Yeah and it's not like they're baby toy amps. They're in the 15-20w range. That's enough to get a single Greenback in an isocab cooking up some goodness.

Yeah man, I get it, I still think the Chupa was the best amp I've ever recorded with, but both amps I have now aren't terrible...To me the Mini J is just different, which to me, is pretty cool, & I like the tones I've been getting with it...

Yeah that Chupa was pretty bad ass. The Jubilee won't sound like that, the EVH definitely won't sound like that, but that doesn't mean they won't do the stuff you like. I think the Jubilee is probably a good amp for your style.

[Tadpui]

Holy crap it's been too long since I've peeked my head into the tone thread!

Miner, I think your clips sound very good. I agree with Greg, the 5W clips aren't as dynamic and punchy as the other clips. I like the '57 at 20W, that's just solid tone. It's got a nice bite to it, not too fizzy, clear and present. Good stuff, dude.

And I'm gonna be the jerk that shows up after a long absence and toss in a tone of my own. I was playing around with everything the other day and I stumbled across this tone. There is some drum, some bass, and a synth doubling the bass (for better or for worse...it's just what I was feeling at the time )

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/tp7 ... 20clip.mp3

This is the Les Paul into the JCM800 on the high sensitivity input, with only a Boss CS-3 in between. The only notable settings on the amp are that the mid is cranked and the master and preamp are both at 5. The CS-3 has the sustain nearly cranked, and the level at about 65%. Then into the Torpedo Reload, the BAE 1073, and just for the heck of it a Distressor at a 1:1 ratio with Distortion 2 engaged for no compression but maybe a little subtle saturation. Then into a line input on the interface, and top off this overcomplicated signal routing with an instance of Wall Of Sound's emulation of a Marshall 4x12 and an SM57. Oh, and some reverb added in post and a little EQ to low-pass and tame the screechier frequencies.

...and it's just that simple! LOL. Jeez, I miss just plugging a guitar into an amp and sticking a mic in front of it. Now I've gotta flip 6 switches and plug in 5 cables just to hear an electric guitar out loud in the room.

[JD01]

Hey, Miner

I wish there was a way we could run them through the same cab and mics. I think our different speakers and mic positions negate any differences that would be easily discernible between the heads alone.

But no matter, I think your 20 watt clips sound good. The 5w clips sound flat to me. No life to them. The 20w versions sound good though.

Just thought of an experiment:
Would it be possible for both of you to record the same riff using identical settings on the amps (kind of like you've already done) post pics of the knobs to make sure they're exactly the same. (obviously use very similar guitars).
Then record the FX send from the amps.
Email the FX sends to eachother.
Reamp the FX sends into the FX returns at similar power amp settings and record these.

Then we could see how your recorded tracks that have gone through the other guys power amp, cab and mics compare to both your original and their original track.

[Greg_L]

Just thought of an experiment:
Would it be possible for both of you to record the same riff using identical settings on the amps (kind of like you've already done) post pics of the knobs to make sure they're exactly the same. (obviously use very similar guitars).
Then record the FX send from the amps.
Email the FX sends to eachother.
Reamp the FX sends into the FX returns at similar power amp settings and record these.

Then we could see how your recorded tracks that have gone through the other guys power amp, cab and mics compare to both your original and their original track.

Hmmm, that's not a bad idea.

So I'd record a direct out from the FX send. Save it.
Miner records a direct out from the FX send. Save it.
We swap DI FX send tracks.
Then each guy reamps his own and the other guy's FX send DI through his own FX return/cab set up.

That just might work. I'm concerned about the signal level and noise. I guess we can try it. Good idea, J.

[Greg_L]

Holy crap it's been too long since I've peeked my head into the tone thread!

Miner, I think your clips sound very good. I agree with Greg, the 5W clips aren't as dynamic and punchy as the other clips. I like the '57 at 20W, that's just solid tone. It's got a nice bite to it, not too fizzy, clear and present. Good stuff, dude.

And I'm gonna be the jerk that shows up after a long absence and toss in a tone of my own. I was playing around with everything the other day and I stumbled across this tone. There is some drum, some bass, and a synth doubling the bass (for better or for worse...it's just what I was feeling at the time )

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/tp7 ... 20clip.mp3

This is the Les Paul into the JCM800 on the high sensitivity input, with only a Boss CS-3 in between. The only notable settings on the amp are that the mid is cranked and the master and preamp are both at 5. The CS-3 has the sustain nearly cranked, and the level at about 65%. Then into the Torpedo Reload, the BAE 1073, and just for the heck of it a Distressor at a 1:1 ratio with Distortion 2 engaged for no compression but maybe a little subtle saturation. Then into a line input on the interface, and top off this overcomplicated signal routing with an instance of Wall Of Sound's emulation of a Marshall 4x12 and an SM57. Oh, and some reverb added in post and a little EQ to low-pass and tame the screechier frequencies.

...and it's just that simple! LOL. Jeez, I miss just plugging a guitar into an amp and sticking a mic in front of it. Now I've gotta flip 6 switches and plug in 5 cables just to hear an electric guitar out loud in the room.

Lol. Goddamn that's a lot of work for a guitar track. It sounds good though. Nice and biting without being harsh.

[JD01]

Just thought of an experiment:
Would it be possible for both of you to record the same riff using identical settings on the amps (kind of like you've already done) post pics of the knobs to make sure they're exactly the same. (obviously use very similar guitars).
Then record the FX send from the amps.
Email the FX sends to eachother.
Reamp the FX sends into the FX returns at similar power amp settings and record these.

Then we could see how your recorded tracks that have gone through the other guys power amp, cab and mics compare to both your original and their original track.

Hmmm, that's not a bad idea.

So I'd record a direct out from the FX send. Save it.
Miner records a direct out from the FX send. Save it.
We swap DI FX send tracks.
Then each guy reamps his own and the other guy's FX send DI through his own FX return/cab set up.

That just might work. I'm concerned about the signal level and noise. I guess we can try it. Good idea, J.

Yeah, exactly that. In theory provided that miners guitar is similar enough to yours if you stick his FX send into your FX return, through your cab into your mics with the same blend it should sound very similar indeed to a clip recorded entirely through your signal chain. And the reverse would also be true.

[Greg_L]

Yeah, exactly that. In theory provided that miners guitar is similar enough to yours if you stick his FX send into your FX return, through your cab into your mics with the same blend it should sound very similar indeed to a clip recorded entirely through your signal chain. And the reverse would also be true.

I think a lot of that would depend on us getting the levels right. I have no idea what kind of signal comes out of the fx loop send. I'm gonna assume it's a -10db line signal, but I don't know. We'd have to make sure there's no loss or boost, or worse, noise, in the signal.

[JD01]

I think a lot of that would depend on us getting the levels right. I have no idea what kind of signal comes out of the fx loop send. I'm gonna assume it's a -10db line signal, but I don't know. We'd have to make sure there's no loss or boost, or worse, noise, in the signal.

Most interfaces have a little switch don't they so you can select for instrument/line level signals etc - you'd have to reason this out before hand by recording your own FX send then reamping it through your own FX return. I suppose comparing to make sure these two sound the same first is a good idea as this will eliminate any other possibilities.

Interesting idea though 'cos if it works it also opens up weird possibilities where we could do weird combinations of pre-amp and power amp for all of us all over the world. Like say, your pre-amp out from a plexi, re"amped" through Armistice's Kemper 1960A cab or something weird like that.

[Greg_L]

Most interfaces have a little switch don't they so you can select for instrument/line level signals etc - you'd have to reason this out before hand by recording your own FX send then reamping it through your own FX return. I suppose comparing to make sure these two sound the same first is a good idea as this will eliminate any other possibilities.

I'm wondering does the amp's channel volume affect the send? That happens sometimes. And it'd have to be straight line-in to avoid any preamp padding/boosting. Lots of variables. I'm gonna have to do some testing and see how this works.

[Tadpui]

Lol. Goddamn that's a lot of work for a guitar track. It sounds good though. Nice and biting without being harsh.

I know, right? The complexity of the routing pretty much kills the whole "I'm just gonna plug in and noodle for a while" vibe. But I have to say that I like the results. It's taken me forever to get all of those gain stages dialed in, and I still have a ways to go. But like you say, it has that unmistakable Marshall "bite" to it that I just can't get from any sim. It's a pain in the ass, but I think it's worth it!


Now, what's this that you guys are cooking up about FX outputs and preamps and reamping? Now THAT sounds complicated

But I'm curious to hear the results.

[Minerman]

And I'm gonna be the jerk that shows up after a long absence and toss in a tone of my own. I was playing around with everything the other day and I stumbled across this tone. There is some drum, some bass, and a synth doubling the bass (for better or for worse...it's just what I was feeling at the time )

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/tp7 ... 20clip.mp3

This is the Les Paul into the JCM800 on the high sensitivity input, with only a Boss CS-3 in between. The only notable settings on the amp are that the mid is cranked and the master and preamp are both at 5. The CS-3 has the sustain nearly cranked, and the level at about 65%. Then into the Torpedo Reload, the BAE 1073, and just for the heck of it a Distressor at a 1:1 ratio with Distortion 2 engaged for no compression but maybe a little subtle saturation. Then into a line input on the interface, and top off this overcomplicated signal routing with an instance of Wall Of Sound's emulation of a Marshall 4x12 and an SM57. Oh, and some reverb added in post and a little EQ to low-pass and tame the screechier frequencies.

...and it's just that simple! LOL. Jeez, I miss just plugging a guitar into an amp and sticking a mic in front of it. Now I've gotta flip 6 switches and plug in 5 cables just to hear an electric guitar out loud in the room.

That clip sounds good Tad, it cuts with the right amount of high end so it's not harsh, & it's very articulate...That's a complicated way to record guitar tracks, but the end result is great man...Good to see you here...

[Minerman]

I meant to post this a day or two ago, this guy does all kinds of gear reviews, & I think he's a killer player...

This video shows him going through some old-school amps & how he likes to dial them in:
[BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZeRhczwoj8[/BBvideo]

[Tadpui]

That clip sounds good Tad, it cuts with the right amount of high end so it's not harsh, & it's very articulate...That's a complicated way to record guitar tracks, but the end result is great man...Good to see you here...

Hey thanks Miner! I have to say that I'm pretty happy with this tone. It's got all of those Marshall qualities, and considering that it only made whisper-quiet sounds in the room at the time of recording, it suits my needs really well.

I meant to post this a day or two ago, this guy does all kinds of gear reviews, & I think he's a killer player...

This video shows him going through some old-school amps & how he likes to dial them in:
[BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZeRhczwoj8[/BBvideo]

I like Pete. he's got great tastes in tone. And I agree that he's a damn fine player. That wildly lazy eye kinda fucks with me though, I'll admit that. I'm not proud that it bugs me, but it does. Not like I'm without tics that don't make for compelling video...

But holy shit, those are amazing sounding amps!

[Minerman]

On Jdude's re-amp idea, that's pretty slick, I'm assuming the signal from the effects loop would be line level, so the only thing "extra" we'd have to do is run a cable from the send straight into our interface, right???

I have a couple line inputs on the back of my interface, but I'd probably have to plug my amp's send into an input with a mic pre-amp, correct???

I'm capable of recording 3 tracks at once now since I dug out my old Art Tube Mp, & found a power supply for it...I'm pretty sure it would color/change the sound, but I could possibly do this in a 2 step process...

Lemme know for sure what we need to do on this guys...