The Tone Thread

[rayc]

Only another $200 for the 8 inch, at Manny's...
https://www.mannys.com.au/adam-t8v-2-wa ... itors-pairAdam 8 inch monitors

Yeah,
I've looked at them but a grand is scary big....I won't be buying this week...I may consider the plus n minus.



This is interesting

[Lt. Bob]

Not sure why awesome monitors would need all that so they're clearly not that awesome

[rayc]

Not sure why awesome monitors would need all that so they're clearly not that awesome

They said excellent "for the money" but there was the one significant issue that the older fellow wanted to try to address...so he did.
It was/is a case of CAN it be improved? The advice followed by experiments showed that crossovers made a difference, more wadding made things worse, a really expensive amplifier made the results much better and mass made the most significant difference - for the better.
I've looked at the JBLs in the range as well as the Yamaha & others. Everything in the price range is a compromise and all could be improved - it's a given.
Moving from 4 1/2" woofers is the aim for me. I have a pair of AR4x speakers set up in the recording space with a nice Cambridge Audio Topaz amp. I listen to LPs in there and the twin speaker design delivers much better bottom end than the monitors even though the woofers aren't much bigger...voiced differently of course but having a richer, deeper bass sound available in the room made it clear that the monitors aren't the ant's pants and that the room isn't killing the bass.

[Armistice]

OK - thanks again @Greg_L - I've worked out the clean/crunch stuff now I think.

Moving up the gain curve a bit. Here are four more... the sample has three different bits, firstly a partial chord/riff but with a descending picked bass note section to hear the articulation of individual notes, then Led Zep's Custard Pie riff which is just your basic power chord variation, then some more or less random crashing open chords so the higher strings in open position come into play...


This is the same profile I used in the cleaner stuff, as it came - earlier I'd reduced the gain a little, which generally works OK, it's increasing it where it gets mushy

Tele 07 Hiwatt Custom 100.mp3

Boutique-y amp people seem to rave about.

Tele 08 Two-Rock Studio 35.mp3

Same as above...

Tele 09 Tone King Imperial.mp3

And of course, a Marshall - couldn't find which version it was, however, but I'll keep looking.

Tele 10 Marshall JCM800.mp3

I just keep going back to the same couple of profile makers, I find...

[Greg_L]

I like all of these pretty good. I'm not sure but I think I could have picked out the Marshall in a blind test, and naturally I like it the best. It's got the Marshall bite and grind. I'm calling a tie for the two-rock and Tone King. They're pretty similar and both quite good. The Hi-Watt is last for me on this run because it's a little bloated in the lower mids IMO.

[rayc]

Custard Pie is a grand song - that made Phys Graf for me.
The HiWatt's really disappointing.
The Toneking wasn't bad but sounded like it needed a little more tweaking and the Marshall was pretty good.
Nice playing.

[Lt. Bob]

Not sure why awesome monitors would need all that so they're clearly not that awesome

They said excellent "for the money" but there was the one significant issue that the older fellow wanted to try to address...so he did.

I dunno ..... that resonance they pointed out bothers me.
Adams are certainly supposed to be very good ...... I'm kinda a JBL guy and they make some really nice monitors these days

[JD01]

The HiWatt seems a bit muddy and indistinct on this one.

The Two-Rock is nice and clear but a little thin, sounds like it could do with a bit more gain actually, although this might turn it to shit.

Really like the Tone King, its bright and clear but without being thin.

The Marhshall is pretty good too, but its starting to get a tiny bit messy - try the Tone King with a tiny bit more gain.

Tone King>Marshall>Two Rock>HiWatt

[Armistice]

Thanks @Greg_L , @rayc and @JD01 ... take 2 on these 4 and a surprise below.

To try to standardise what I'm doing, I've set all "amp" EQ controls (bass, mid, treble, presence) to flat (they weren't much off anyway) and am doing all EQing via an 8-band graphic which has been inserted before the "amp" stage of the Kemper. I'd already put this there and some of the previous profiles had had tweaks done via this - but it was getting too hard to work out what a profile with amp mid set to +1.5 (out of 5) because that's how the profiler set it up, and the graphic 640 Hz band set to - 2dB by me actually meant.

Also made a few gain changes - FYI, the gain control is from 0 to 10 in 0.1 increments - if I mention it down below.

Again, for these samples, I'm playing the Custard Pie riff in the original settings, then again in the new settings so you get a straight comparison, then some open crashing chords in the new settings. They all sound better to me, but let me know what you think.

HIWATT
When I booted up the Kemper this morning I had four "Tele 07 Hiwatt profiles" so I'm not sure what happened, I deleted 3 assuming they were all the same and found that I'd killed off all the highs via the graphic EQ for reasons unknown on the one that was left - that might have added to the general underwhelmingness of it. Any, I've nulled all those changes and done a little EQ carving down lower.

Tele 07 Hiwatt Custom 100 Take 2.mp3

TWO-ROCK
As per JD's comment I increased the gain by 0.4, nulled the amp EQ and tried to re-establish via the graphic the same sound, sort of...

Tele 08 Two-Rock Take 2.mp3

TONE KING
Upped the gain just a little, tinkered with the EQ a bit as well

Tele 09 Tone King Take 2.mp3

MARHSALL
Took about 0.2 off the gain and did the EQ reset thing as well

Tele 10 Marshall Take 2.mp3

@JD01 asked me ages ago if there was a Dumble profile and it turns out there was one in one of the freebie amp packs I'd downloaded from Kemper. It's done by a guy named Michael Britt who's one of about 3 profilers who make good, saleable profiles - so I'm assuming he knows what he's doing. It was called "Dumb Overdrive Special" so I'm assuming that's the Dumble - they have all these code names to avoid some sort of legal issues.... Marshall = Mars, Fender = Fan, Mesa Boogie = MeBo etc. etc.

Can't say I'm all that fond of it, but here is is... I dialled the gain down a little.

Tele Dumble.mp3

[Lt. Bob]

like the tone king but really like the mahrshall

[Greg_L]

Marshall wins again for me. I like it's tight lows and punchier mids and upper mids. It also seems to be less compressed to my ears. It has more "depth" across the frequency range. But I'm obviously a biased Marshall fanboy.

Again for me the Two Rock and Tone King could just be the same amp with slightly different settings. They have very similar characteristics. I think the Two Rock sounds a bit better in these comparisons, but both are quite nice.

The HiWatt is much improved but still not overtaking the other three.

I don't know how much the Dumble profile sounds like an actual Dumble, but if I had to listen to that one blind I would have guessed it's an Orange or maybe even a Mesa. It's got that thickness in the lower mids but it's not really muddy. Just thick. I think it sounds pretty good though as just a guitar sound for how it is and not thinking of it as a Dumble.

[rayc]

Definitely all are dialled in better. They all seem to have a touch of the sound I don't like about overdrive pedal distortion. It makes no sense I know.

[WhiskeyJack]

@Armistice I am way late to your tone party but i am very partial to both the carol ann and Hiwatt sounds. Would be cool to hear those blended together to some degree. The Hiwatt sounds a little bit darker than what i was anticipating but it iis still one of my standout faves.

I know fuck all about Kempers but i did have a line 6 pod once and i was able to take the two separate amp models and combine them together to make a virtual mega rig. I had some interesting results with that.

[Armistice]

OK, thanks all... I'm working on a song now so I'll put this on hold for a bit. I think I have what I need for the Tele. Will try another guitar in a few days.


@WhiskeyJack - a brief check of the internets tells me that you can't run two profiles at once. Conceivably you could reamp the same base track and combine in your DAW but that's about it. I'm OK with not being able to do this. My life is complicated enough anyway and I'm trying to simplify things, not make them more complex. Music>Sound.

[rayc]

[JD01]

OK, here's my first attempt at sounding vaguely like early Pearl Jam. I'm not going for the awful 80s hangover production of the original, I want something more akin to the remix of the album that Brendan O'Brien did about 15 years ago which is more like their punky live sound.

This is with the tele on the neck pickup. I'm gonna try it on the bridge pickup shortly - This is as much gain as I can get without it feeding back uncontrollably in my little room.

EF Tone Test.mp3

Here's the bridge pickup on the tele. I think I might play both parts on my Crimson but dial the hi guitar in in a slightly different way.

EF Tone Test Bridge.mp3

[Lt. Bob]

Had a friend order that amp ..... he sent it back after an hour

[JD01]

Had a friend order that amp ..... he sent it back after an hour

Didn't listen to this when it was first posted. But its a a telecaster played by a guy that's obviously a great player but it sounds kind of boxy/woolly and a bit meh.

[WhiskeyJack]

OK, here's my first attempt at sounding vaguely like early Pearl Jam. I'm not going for the awful 80s hangover production of the original, I want something more akin to the remix of the album that Brendan O'Brien did about 15 years ago which is more like their punky live sound.

This is with the tele on the neck pickup. I'm gonna try it on the bridge pickup shortly - This is as much gain as I can get without it feeding back uncontrollably in my little room.

EF Tone Test.mp3

Here's the bridge pickup on the tele. I think I might play both parts on my Crimson but dial the hi guitar in in a slightly different way.

EF Tone Test Bridge.mp3

I like the neck pick up one the gooderest. The bridge sounds a bit brittle and thin to my ears. Neck has a bit more body and still has that little something to push it thru the mix. You going to do a full cover of this one ?

[WhiskeyJack]

Had a friend order that amp ..... he sent it back after an hour

Don't blame him, it is kind of a rubbish amp.