Pickup Idea

[JD01]

Really like my Mustang ('65 reissue) - its one of the nicest guitars in my hands that I've ever played on.
Sounds way too thin and weedy though, when I got my Les Paul I recorded the same riff on my Les Paul, Crimson, Tele and Mustang and was surprised how jangly and twangy the Mustang sounded in comparison to everything else.

I think its probably down to the pickups - I can't find out what output they are browsing online, but I'm assuming its very low. Is there any other reason it could sound this jangly?

A few days ago I'd basically decided I was going to sell the Mustang and buy a strat... but then I played on it for an hour and decided that I still really like it.
Are Mustang pickups a standard shape? They look a bit wider to me... but that might just be 'cos they're smooth covers and I'm used to seeing pole pieces. If they are standard I can easily look at getting one of those little humbuckers for the bridge position and something stratty go to in the neck. Then I think I'll just keep the guitar.

[muttley]

Mustang pickups are single coil wound pretty much the same as the strat. The main difference would be that they have concealed pole pieces so will be a little further from the string. They are also both canted where as the strat only has bridge pickup offset. They wouldn't make a significant difference in and of itself. The Mustang also has a shorter scale length. All those things would add up. The shorter scale length should give a slightly warmer sound compared to a Strat which may be tricking your ears into hearing slightly lower output,... just a guess.

All those comments are general so without having a closer look at the individual pups and measuring the output it is hard to put it down to any specific thing. Replacing them shouldn't be an issue as the footprint should allow any strat style pup to drop in there.

[muttley]

I should have added that the pole pieces are very slightly shorter (16mm) which results in a slightly underwound pup compared to a Strat. That would also affect output.

[JD01]

Cheers, I'd love to find out what the output of the pickups that's in there is. If I do replace the pickups I'll be pretty pissed off if it doesn't make an obvious difference.

I thought the pickups were a little low when I got it and I've raised them up a bit, they're not too far away now.

[muttley]

If you do replace the pickups it should make a difference. Mustang pickups are underwound and the output would likely be in the 5.5k -6k range. Strats would typically be around 6k to 7k. Also the magnets are a little further from the string and a little shorter. There is no way of telling how much Gauss the pickups magnets still have or what they actually are and that is a factor of the output as well. If you address those then you will increase the output. Whether it drifts too far from the Mustang sound is another issue. That depends exactly on what you are shooting for.

[Greg_L]

What did you expect with a Mustang? That's what they sound like.

[JD01]

What did you expect with a Mustang? That's what they sound like.

I guess I had no idea what to expect. I got it 'cos it was quirky, local and looked like a good idea. Luckily its lovely to play now its properly set up.

Mutt's comment:

That depends exactly on what you are shooting for.

Got me thinking, I think what I'm after is something that sits nicely with my guitars while maintaining its own character. But without me having to totally dial in a new sound if I want to record it. I've got a basic sound that I'm happy with, that with minor tweaks works with my Crimson, Les Paul and Tele. Putting the Mustang into the mix requires me to quite radically alter everything, whereas I want it to just compliment my other guitars.

Its funny. I always think this guitar is useless to me... and then I play it for a while and quite like it. But then I try and record it in a mix with another guitar and think its useless again.

[Greg_L]

Well it sounds like you have four guitars. That doesn't mean you have to shoehorn every one of them into a mix just because you have them. That's dumb.

Me personally I'd leave it as it is and let it be how it's supposed to be. A Mustang is a Mustang. Leave it for when you want that sound and use the other guitars for whatever else. But it sounds like you're looking for justification of your purchase. You think you spent money on that guitar and you need to use it more, so put one of Mutt's blade Ripper rail humbuckers in it and be done.

[JD01]

Well it sounds like you have four guitars. That doesn't mean you have to shoehorn every one of them into a mix just because you have them. That's dumb.

Me personally I'd leave it as it is and let it be how it's supposed to be. A Mustang is a Mustang. Leave it for when you want that sound and use the other guitars for whatever else. But it sounds like you're looking for justification of your purchase. You think you spent money on that guitar and you need to use it more, so put one of Mutt's blade Ripper rail humbuckers in it and be done.

Yeah, it is partly justifying the purchase - I want to record it easily... 'cos I have it. That being said, its a nice guitar to play and I enjoy playing it. Maybe that's enough.

Yeah, I have 4 guitars that are out in my room for regular use. I also have an a nice acoustic (downstairs) and an old Ibanez in a case in the attic which I have a plan for.

I actually don't get much time to record at the moment and whenever I'm not getting much time to record I always end up faffing with gear. I'm not getting to write much new stuff at the moment which is why I've recorded a few covers.

[Greg_L]

its a nice guitar to play and I enjoy playing it. Maybe that's enough.

It is.

I feel that way about a bunch of my guitars. I know I can't cram them into every situation though.

[JD01]

I've been taking a break from work and having a play on it now. It doesn't work with the normal level of gain I play with, I just don't like the sound of it. It actually sounds really good clean, and when I'm on the crunch channel of my amp, it does a nice edge of breakup sound. Fuck it, I'm going to stick with the guitars I have.

[Greg_L]

That's why amps have knobs. You can't expect every guitar to just be the same.

[Lt. Bob]

That's why amps have knobs. You can't expect every guitar to just be the same.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ this ^^^^^^^^^^

and it's a 24" scale ..... that alone is gonna make it sound different regardless of pickups and is also why I've never wanted a Mustang or Jaguar ..... for me even a Gibson scale feels a bit short ..... 24 is just too short for me personally

[muttley]

.......... so put one of Mutt's blade Ripper rail humbuckers in it and be done.

TBH that is what I would do.

[muttley]

........................
Got me thinking, I think what I'm after is something that sits nicely with my guitars while maintaining its own character. But without me having to totally dial in a new sound if I want to record it. I've got a basic sound that I'm happy with, that with minor tweaks works with my Crimson, Les Paul and Tele. Putting the Mustang into the mix requires me to quite radically alter everything, whereas I want it to just compliment my other guitars.

Its funny. I always think this guitar is useless to me... and then I play it for a while and quite like it. But then I try and record it in a mix with another guitar and think its useless again.

The thing about the twin blade humbuckers that I do for the strat or tele is that they have a LOT of magnet in there and are wound with a finer gauge wire as the actual bobbins are quite small. That results in quite a punchy and sharp output. If you tap them you still get closer to the strat single coil sound than the classic P90 sound mostly because of the shape of the coil and bobbin. As a bucker you get a smoother and more pronounced mid range response. I love them and gig with them in a Tele quite a bit these days. Again without really nailing down the sound you are looking for it's hard to be specific about this but the twin blade definitely give you more flexibility. It would definitely put you closer to the Tele sound you already have in terms of response and output.

[JD01]

........................
Got me thinking, I think what I'm after is something that sits nicely with my guitars while maintaining its own character. But without me having to totally dial in a new sound if I want to record it. I've got a basic sound that I'm happy with, that with minor tweaks works with my Crimson, Les Paul and Tele. Putting the Mustang into the mix requires me to quite radically alter everything, whereas I want it to just compliment my other guitars.

Its funny. I always think this guitar is useless to me... and then I play it for a while and quite like it. But then I try and record it in a mix with another guitar and think its useless again.

The thing about the twin blade humbuckers that I do for the strat or tele is that they have a LOT of magnet in there and are wound with a finer gauge wire as the actual bobbins are quite small. That results in quite a punchy and sharp output. If you tap them you still get closer to the strat single coil sound than the classic P90 sound mostly because of the shape of the coil and bobbin. As a bucker you get a smoother and more pronounced mid range response. I love them and gig with them in a Tele quite a bit these days. Again without really nailing down the sound you are looking for it's hard to be specific about this but the twin blade definitely give you more flexibility. It would definitely put you closer to the Tele sound you already have in terms of response and output.

After kinda thinking out loud here I'm leaning toward what Greg said. I think I wanted to change the pickups cos I wanted it to sound like my other guitars and use it like my other guitars... whereas I just need to treat it as something different and accept I'll use it less when recording.

[Greg_L]

I just need to treat it as something different and accept I'll use it less when recording.

Yes that ^^^^

Not every guitar does everything. Could I play surf licks with a Les Paul? Sure, but it would sound fucking stupid.

[Tadpui]

I went through the same thing with my Jazzmaster. It's a twangy, clangy, bright, noisy mess...and I love its personality. It's absolutely perfect for some situations. But I can't really shoehorn it into a stoner rock riff or a Metallica cover. It's a beast unto itself, and I actually tend to write and play differently on it. That's generally why I have multiple guitars in the first place, different tools in the tool chest for different situations. I'd suggest writing with it based on what it does well and see what different surprises you end up with.

[muttley]

...........
After kinda thinking out loud here I'm leaning toward what Greg said. I think I wanted to change the pickups cos I wanted it to sound like my other guitars and use it like my other guitars... whereas I just need to treat it as something different and accept I'll use it less when recording.

That's fine. A Mustang is a strange beast but plenty of good music has been made on them.

[Armistice]

I went googling Fender Mustang to find out who'd actually made some of that fine music @muttley is referring to discover that Fender also made a Mustang amp. Way to confuse your brand...