New song - established "progressions"

[rayc]

I thought I'd give some established progressions a go.
I didn't start on the 1 or anything that orthodox.
Well, I had sketched out this song with my own "what sounds good to me" chord sequence, but decided to revise it and see if I can please some tortured minds by resolving occasionally etc.
I liked the sound of starting with a C#m so started along a progression for that etc. etc.
This is a sketch with guitars, at present, from an amp in a box. If the songs works I'll track with amp n mics.
I added some little motifs - one at the beginning of the chorus and another inside the verse.
The verse one changes from ending on an A which is in the chord to ending on an F which isn't BUT it pleased my ear ...if it's WROOOONG to the world's ears I'll change it.
BPM 170
Key of A
No melody, vocal or lyrics.

SUGAR DU.mp3

THOUGHTS?
Here's a revised version...all ITB...that simplifies things - well removed some chord sequences and replaces them with repeats - at least in the verse.
Revised with map guitars & DI bass
18/12/22



Here's a tech tweaked mix.
I wasn't fussed on the sound of the right hand guitars in the verse and planned to retrack them but I've not been in a position to make LOUD noise, (lack of loud being part of the fizzy sound problem), so decided to try the JSFX Spectrum Matcher VST. I found a good guitar sound and used the plug to find the profile of the good one, analyse the sound of the bad one and create a correction EQ set up. It sort of worked...not perfect but definitely better.
Here's a little more experimentation. I worked out a crappy filler solo part and it had crappy tone so I used the sec matcher again...it came out okay...apart from the crappy playing & writing of course.

New year, new mix,
I needed to replace one of the right side guitars - so did - SORT OF...

SUGAR DU0270123.mp3

[vomitHatSteve]

Borrowing from other keys and modes is totally find. Seems like you ran out of chords and had to go raid the pantry for more, right?

There's a kind of pause or hiccup around 1:14 on the left guitar. I don't know if it was intentional, but it is a little awkward. Happens again around 1:33
So that makes me think... these are scratch guitars, right? Is the left one much brighter, or my ears unbalanced?

[rayc]

Borrowing from other keys and modes is totally find. Seems like you ran out of chords and had to go raid the pantry for more, right?

There's a kind of pause or hiccup around 1:14 on the left guitar. I don't know if it was intentional, but it is a little awkward. Happens again around 1:33
So that makes me think... these are scratch guitars, right? Is the left one much brighter, or my ears unbalanced?

Yeah scratch parts to decide whether the thing works. I was going to cut n paste to fill but wasn't sure it was needed given I'd retrack.
Modes? I wouldn't know but I believe you.

[Greg_L]

It's hard to tell without the vocal melody working with it. As it stands now it sounds like you just crammed a bunch of chords into a song. Parts of it work, parts of it are excessive.

[rayc]

It's hard to tell without the vocal melody working with it. As it stands now it sounds like you just crammed a bunch of chords into a song. Parts of it work, parts of it are excessive.

Ha, that's my usual process...I wondered if using established progressions would improve that general feeling. Clearly not. Excessive...use of chords - that's me, though it's not as crammed as some recent tracks.

[Greg_L]

Ha, that's my usual process...I wondered if using established progressions would improve that general feeling. Clearly not. Excessive...use of chords - that's me, though it's not as crammed as some recent tracks.

What does "established progression" mean though? None of it really means anything until there is a melody line tying it all together. Even instrumental music isn't just backing chords. It has some kind of instrumental melody stringing it along. Without the melodic part it's just chords. Sure sometimes a simple progression like a 1-4-5 or 12-bar blues takes care of itself. Millions of songs use it. But it's the melody that makes it work from song to song.

[rayc]

Ha, that's my usual process...I wondered if using established progressions would improve that general feeling. Clearly not. Excessive...use of chords - that's me, though it's not as crammed as some recent tracks.

What does "established progression" mean though? None of it really means anything until there is a melody line tying it all together. Even instrumental music isn't just backing chords. It has some kind of instrumental melody stringing it along. Without the melodic part it's just chords. Sure sometimes a simple progression like a 1-4-5 or 12-bar blues takes care of itself. Millions of songs use it. But it's the melody that makes it work from song to song.

I looked at the 6 most common progressions for A and used two and then stuffed about to add to those until I had chords that sound okay together to me.
Yeah, nothing much without something to string it together but I don't have any real sense of melody so work from a chord progression to a structure to lyrics to melody. It's all I have.

[rayc]

@Greg_L,
In the above revised version the main progressions are the same as the ore excessive version:
the verse is basically I IV vi V
The chorus - well there's no "common chord progression" in A that has C#, (or C#m in my instance), let alone starting with it so that's a iii IV V ish thing.
It does with iii IV V I though.
With this song I was trying to get away from my usual process, (just strumming until a bunch of chords sound good to me), which is often criticised, (elsewhere), for not following "the rules" by trying some rules for size. It sort of worked in the verse but, as mentioned, I liked the wrong starting chord for it.

[Greg_L]

@Greg_L,
In the above revised version the main progressions are the same as the ore excessive version:
the verse is basically I IV vi V
The chorus - well there's no "common chord progression" in A that has C#, (or C#m in my instance), let alone starting with it so that's a iii IV V ish thing.
It does with iii IV V I though.
With this song I was trying to get away from my usual process, (just strumming until a bunch of chords sound good to me), which is often criticised, (elsewhere), for not following "the rules" by trying some rules for size. It sort of worked in the verse but, as mentioned, I liked the wrong starting chord for it.

To my ears the changes sound more cohesive. It sounds more like a song that will have distinct parts that work together. Whether that's good or bad is up to the listener.

[vomitHatSteve]

@Greg_L,
In the above revised version the main progressions are the same as the ore excessive version:
the verse is basically I IV vi V
The chorus - well there's no "common chord progression" in A that has C#, (or C#m in my instance), let alone starting with it so that's a iii IV V ish thing.
It does with iii IV V I though.
With this song I was trying to get away from my usual process, (just strumming until a bunch of chords sound good to me), which is often criticised, (elsewhere), for not following "the rules" by trying some rules for size. It sort of worked in the verse but, as mentioned, I liked the wrong starting chord for it.

I thought I heard a I IV I V at some point. (Was that the I IV VI V then?) Either way, it very much clicked as "ah yes, that's what Ray meant by established chord progressions"

[rayc]

@Greg_L,
In the above revised version the main progressions are the same as the ore excessive version:
the verse is basically I IV vi V
The chorus - well there's no "common chord progression" in A that has C#, (or C#m in my instance), let alone starting with it so that's a iii IV V ish thing.
It does with iii IV V I though.
With this song I was trying to get away from my usual process, (just strumming until a bunch of chords sound good to me), which is often criticised, (elsewhere), for not following "the rules" by trying some rules for size. It sort of worked in the verse but, as mentioned, I liked the wrong starting chord for it.

I thought I heard a I IV I V at some point. (Was that the I IV VI V then?) Either way, it very much clicked as "ah yes, that's what Ray meant by established chord progressions"

Yes, THOSE progressions...kind of anyway. I still failed to add a diminished chord G#dim...it sounded awful so went for the G#m.
I tried, an succeeded in avoiding my favourite chords for the most part (Am, Em) but had to slip in the ignore C# as a minor too.

[rayc]

UPDATED

[JD01]

Just catching up so starting on the last mix. All sounds pretty tidy.
The hi-hats are weird on this, particularly at the start, they have that sound that you get when SoundCloud butchers your cymbals? You know what I mean - all whooshy and swirly sounding - its not as obvious when the song is moving along.

Aside from that its a cool song.

[rayc]

SUGAR DU 2122bc mix, (bottom of the stack).
I wasn't fussed on the sound of the right hand rhythm guitar in the verse and planned to retrack it but I've not been in a position to make LOUD noise, (lack of loud being part of the fizzy sound problem), so decided to try the JSFX Spectrum Matcher VST. I found a good guitar sound and used the plug to find the profile of the good one, analyse the sound of the bad one and create a correction EQ set up. It sort of worked...not perfect but definitely better.

[rayc]

The hi-hats are weird on this - all whooshy and swirly sounding - its not as obvious when the song is moving along.

Thanks James,
yes it is like that I'm looking at ways to deal with it...painfull!

[TripleM]

I'm way late to this one. I went straight to the 21/12 mix. Sounds like it could be a real good song.

The overall sound is pretty nice. Not much I'd change. I think the bass is too loud vs the guitars. I think the guitars sound real good.

[rayc]

I think the bass is too loud vs the guitars.

Yes, after addressing the guitar issues I didn't go back to rebalance things and the bass pokes out a lot more now the gtr fizz is reduced.
Tweaking that'll be the task for today.
THANK you.

[TheTestingYak]

Good Choon Brav.

[rayc]

Remix while waiting for melody & lyric ideas...
I dumped all but the original iteration for contrast.

[Alison]

I like this! A bit off the beaten path from what you normally do. It'll be cool to hear what you come up with! Seems you got the issues worked out.