Can you have another listen to this one for me please?

[Armistice]

FILES REMOVED. Thanks for playing...



So if I'm going to cull one of the 12 songs I have ready, it's this one. But then I'll have written and completely recorded two songs called "You Monster" and failed to put either on an album. How will I live with myself... And it's a cool title for a song!

So while I've been working on the mix, I also took @TripleM's feedback re. length of intro on board, and chopped most of it off. So you're much quicker into the heart of the song and it's more standard pop/rock format.

I also straightened out some of the drumming which was sort of not really working with the riff as well as it could do, and various minor mix tweaks.

So mix feedback by all means, but how does it work as a song, in the context of everything else you've heard, is what I really want to know. I'm liking the shortened version a lot more than the longer version, now that I've taken the scalpel to it.

All thoughts appreciated...



T.I.A.

[CrowsofFritz]

I think the guitar is too loud. In the context of everything, I think it’s appropriate, but I like your other songs more. I can picture listening to this in a pub with bikers in it where people are allowed to smoke and everyone is drinking beer.

[WhiskeyJack]

in the context of everything else you've heard,

I think it might be a fun exercise to mock up a folder containing a rough playlist of your proposed album content or something in google drive or some other shared storage folder and let us have a walk thru it. Doesn't have to be full song renders, can just be like halfises or the first 60 seconds of each track. Might give us a better idear of "in context with the others"


I got nothing really for this mix at all Armi. I sort of agreed with Crows that the guits might have been a tad loud but once the song got going and there was a bit more hats flying about it gelled nicely.

[rayc]

The shorter intro works - I liked the ling one but this is more immediate.
The solo is nicely aggressive.
Can't see this in a biker bar though.
The 1st hard panned Monster is too loud.

[vomitHatSteve]

I think I'm gonna need to see a more complete playlist to determine if I think this one needs to be cut. It's really hard to get a sense of the flow of the album from memory

[Armistice]

I'm happier with it now as a song, so I think I've decided it stays... the 12 tracks add up to under 45 minutes, so might as well send it into oblivion with the rest of them...

Working on running order and that sort of stuff over the next couple of days.

[TripleM]

The shorter intro is better. The low end is working well IMO. Guitars still sound terrific.

Did I hear a punch-in edit at :14? Seemed like it. Like the double tracked guitars go near-mono for a second.

Crunch guitars could probably come down a db. Maybe back off the reverb on them just a nudge.

The mix sounds fairly heavily limited. You could probably back off that, again just a little.

[JD01]

Armi, I don't even like the intro like this.
I think you should come in straight on the bass slide and the vocal

[Armistice]

Armi, I don't even like the intro like this.
I think you should come in straight on the bass slide and the vocal

Nah - too sudden. And if you don't like the intro, then that riff is the verse, so you're not going to like the song. Might perhaps shorten it further by half and see how that sounds.

Still on the fence on including it..

[JD01]

Armi, I don't even like the intro like this.
I think you should come in straight on the bass slide and the vocal

Nah - too sudden. And if you don't like the intro, then that riff is the verse, so you're not going to like the song. Might perhaps shorten it further by half and see how that sounds.

Still on the fence on including it..

Its not that I don't like the riff, its good - You just don't need it solo, then with drums, then when the song comes in.
I've done this myself with loads of songs where I feel I have to build them up piece by piece.

Also, given that the riff is quite choppy (not necessarily a bad thing) it needs the rhythm section to hold it together.

[Armistice]

Nah - too sudden. And if you don't like the intro, then that riff is the verse, so you're not going to like the song. Might perhaps shorten it further by half and see how that sounds.

Still on the fence on including it..

Its not that I don't like the riff, its good - You just don't need it solo, then with drums, then when the song comes in.
I've done this myself with loads of songs where I feel I have to build them up piece by piece.

Also, given that the riff is quite choppy (not necessarily a bad thing) it needs the rhythm section to hold it together.

Yeah, I'm sort of aware that I do this all the time - in some respects that's why it had the original long beginning. It's one of the 4 songs I'm yet to finish on, so still time to play with it. Will see how it works without the guitar just on its own at the start, with just guitar & drums, first...

Or maybe just drums, then guitar and bass come in - that might work.

[Lt. Bob]

drums still don't really work with that riff is my biggest issue .... the riff has this little 'jump' in the rhythm while the drums play an entirely different more straight ahead rhythm .... to my ears it sounds like a newbie drummer failing to hit the emphasis points properly.

Song is great ..... recording is great ...... like it except the drums and that riff do not work together

Or maybe just drums, then guitar and bass come in - that might work.

If you did that then you'd prolly play the riff slightly differently to fit the drums, so maybe try that.

[Greg_L]

drums still don't really work with that riff is my biggest issue .... the riff has this little 'jump' in the rhythm while the drums play an entirely different more straight ahead rhythm .... to my ears it sounds like a newbie drummer failing to hit the emphasis points properly.

Song is great ..... recording is great ...... like it except the drums and that riff do not work together

All that ^^^^

The drums and riff do not work. You've got what is sort of like a polyrhythmic drum pattern that really struggles to lock in with the guitars and bass. I can't imagine any real drummer playing it like that unless they have no sense for feel or groove. The song never gels and drives. Basically it's too many snare accents in the wrong spots that should probably be kick drum accents.

[Armistice]

drums still don't really work with that riff is my biggest issue .... the riff has this little 'jump' in the rhythm while the drums play an entirely different more straight ahead rhythm .... to my ears it sounds like a newbie drummer failing to hit the emphasis points properly.

Song is great ..... recording is great ...... like it except the drums and that riff do not work together

All that ^^^^

The drums and riff do not work. You've got what is sort of like a polyrhythmic drum pattern that really struggles to lock in with the guitars and bass. I can't imagine any real drummer playing it like that unless they have no sense for feel or groove. The song never gels and drives. Basically it's too many snare accents in the wrong spots that should probably be kick drum accents.

I do know what you and Lt mean.

Problem is the guitar is played the way the guitar is played, and that slide up in the riff creates a slight stutter that's sort of hard to get drums to mesh with. If I turn the drums off, the guitars and bass lock in perfectly. And I can't play it any differently and at this point don't really want to try anyway. It was played to a drum beat, but something pretty metronomic from memory.

I've spent a good hour trying different patterns just on the verse to try to see if I can at least get that to work better - if I go slow, there's always a kick beat that's not quite right when I keep them on the beat, but if I adjust the kick beat then you notice that slight timing discrepancy and it stops the "groove", so to speak.

I can certainly straighten out the chorus beat easily enough because that's just chords against drums, but getting the verse to "work" better is not really happening.

At this stage I think I'll just cut the song.

Cheers

[Greg_L]

At this stage I think I'll just cut the song.

Cheers

Well that's your call. It's your song and you can have it however you want it. I think Boob and I are hearing the same thing but I wouldn't cut a song I like based off the opinions of some internet yahoos.

But for reference, if you want, study some Bonham/Led Zep drums and riffs. My inner drummer is screaming at me...this needs some Bonham treatment. I'm sure you've listened to LZ a trillion times. But really pay attention to how the drums and riffs work together even when things get choppy and weird. Bonham does a lot of drum stuff, particularly with the kick and snare ghost notes, that is very technical and extremely complicated but it's subtle and it never takes away from his power or how it drives the song.

[Armistice]

At this stage I think I'll just cut the song.

Cheers

Well that's your call. It's your song and you can have it however you want it. I think Boob and I are hearing the same thing but I wouldn't cut a song I like based off the opinions of some internet yahoos.

But for reference, if you want, study some Bonham/Led Zep drums and riffs. My inner drummer is screaming at me...this needs some Bonham treatment. I'm sure you've listened to LZ a trillion times. But really pay attention to how the drums and riffs work together even when things get choppy and weird. Bonham does a lot of drum stuff, particularly with the kick and snare ghost notes, that is very technical and extremely complicated but it's subtle and it never takes away from his power or how it drives the song.

I may revisit this but it's not because of what you're saying as such - I've always been aware of the jerky nature of it against straight drumming. It's a bit of a stylistic outlier with the rest of them as well, and at this point in time I'm not sure I have the desire to try to work out drums for it, so for now, anyway, it goes.

[Lt. Bob]

At this stage I think I'll just cut the song.

Cheers

Well that's your call. It's your song and you can have it however you want it. I think Boob and I are hearing the same thing but I wouldn't cut a song I like based off the opinions of some internet yahoos.

I way agree with this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

However ..... if I'm understanding you correctly you're not playing the drums nor are you programming them?
So it's just a pre-programmed drum beat you're playing against?

If so I'm not seeing how you even came up with such a riff against those drums ..... but the riff and song are cool ..... well worth figuring out how to program drums to fit it.

But if that clash doesn't bother you then personally I'd ignore the shit out of my opinion.

[Armistice]

Well that's your call. It's your song and you can have it however you want it. I think Boob and I are hearing the same thing but I wouldn't cut a song I like based off the opinions of some internet yahoos.

I way agree with this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

However ..... if I'm understanding you correctly you're not playing the drums nor are you programming them?
So it's just a pre-programmed drum beat you're playing against?

If so I'm not seeing how you even came up with such a riff against those drums ..... but the riff and song are cool ..... well worth figuring out how to program drums to fit it.

But if that clash doesn't bother you then personally I'd ignore the shit out of my opinion.

I programmed those drums. I'm just saying I didn't play the guitar against that programming - it would have been a straight metronomic beat - and trying to retrofit the drums to cater for the riff is what I'm struggling to do. I do get what both you and Greg mean, and agree with you - or else I would have ignored the comments and just ploughed on.

Doesn't matter now. Decision's made. Album will be 42 minutes long without it, so I don't need the tune to make up a reasonable album. I'll get back to it at a later date, but for now I'm concentrating on the remaining tracks and other bits and pieces required to package all this up.

[Lt. Bob]

42 minutes is actually quite a good length

[vomitHatSteve]

Not putting every song on an album is probably a good philosophy, but it's a hard one to adhere to!