(The last) new Honey Hunters - Bell the Cat

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Armistice
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(The last) new Honey Hunters - Bell the Cat

Post by Armistice »

FILES REMOVED. Thanks for playing... :lollers:







... for a while anyway. I'll have 12 completed songs, probably cull one, and put out an album in due course. Might then be time to do something else, so maybe it is the last Honey Hunters. We'll see... :like:

So after writing the lyrics it became obvious that most people I know aren't actually aware of the phrase "to bell the cat" - hmmm. :eep: And I can see some people thinking it would be "Belle the Cat" - about an actual cat. :biggrin: Not the case. It's an old Aesop fable, I believe.

So if you don't know and are interested - here, from Wikipedia - "The fable concerns a group of mice who debate plans to nullify the threat of a marauding cat. One of them proposes placing a bell around its neck, so that they are warned of its approach. The plan is applauded by the others, until one mouse asks who will volunteer to place the bell on the cat. All of them make excuses. The story is used to teach the wisdom of evaluating a plan on not only how desirable the outcome would be but also how it can be executed."

And the scenario of the song itself will be familiar to anyone who's worked in corporate life on a project with a project manager whose skills are mainly organisational, but who can't actually do anything REAL, but they push the team or individual along to get something done that's actually not really possible, or possible in the time allowed, at great personal cost to said team or person. :wink: Been there... Many many parallels in modern energy policy too... :lollers:



Now it wouldn't be a Honey Hunters album without some 7/8 action, so here we are. Also descends into 6/8 and 4/4 in various places, so you may find it a bit disjointing... :biggrin: Hopefully not too much. Actually recorded the music before I moved north, mainly on the Telecaster, from memory.


I've just nixed the version Crows commented on - before I read the comments I'd already made some adjustments - realised I had a funny reverb thing happening as a result of some dumbness stacking effects - might be what he was referring to.

So, take 2...



__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Few more tweaks based on feedback... tightened bass, lowered guitars a smidge, poked in vocals and did some automation on a couple of syllables which sounded a little harsh...
:shock:
Last edited by Armistice on Tue Dec 20, 2022 12:13 am, edited 3 times in total.
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CrowsofFritz
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Re: (The last) new Honey Hunters - Bell the Cat

Post by CrowsofFritz »

Woah, this is very 90s/early 2000s sounding. At least the intro. Really reminds me of playing an ATX video game with my friend back in middle school. That’s a nostalgia bomb. I really like it. Is the vocal sounding like it was recorded in a bathroom intentional? It doesn’t sound bad or anything. Just curious.
“Naaaaaaaaaah man. I ain’t touching that mic. That thing’s expensive!”
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Armistice
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Re: (The last) new Honey Hunters - Bell the Cat

Post by Armistice »

CrowsofFritz wrote: Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:33 am Woah, this is very 90s/early 2000s sounding. At least the intro. Really reminds me of playing an ATX video game with my friend back in middle school. That’s a nostalgia bomb. I really like it. Is the vocal sounding like it was recorded in a bathroom intentional? It doesn’t sound bad or anything. Just curious.
Before I saw this I was listening to it again and I'd picked up on this weirdy reverb thing that had slipped in somehow... perhaps that was what you were referring to. This track is cursed - I also managed to do complete harmonies without realising the microphone was around the wrong way and also put all the vocal effects on the bass, somehow. :confused:

Working too quickly, trying to get it done before it was ready. Sort of a metaphor of the lyrics, really. :lollers:
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rayc
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Re: (The last) new Honey Hunters - Bell the Cat

Post by rayc »

1st observation - the snare is a bit loud.
The bass needs some attack on the pedal note under the intro...it sounds fine under the rest but when that section is repeated I hear it again...you could automate the attack on the compressor for those sections to allow a little more transient stuff through or something else a better brain than mine could offer.
COOL song..though you do transgress an ancient rule, (for me), by using got.
Interesting that the parable/fable isn't commonly know...perhaps people have become used to the truncated idea from misuse rather like the "Life wasn't meant to be easy..." Faser paraphrasing.
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Re: (The last) new Honey Hunters - Bell the Cat

Post by CrowsofFritz »

Armistice wrote: Sun Dec 11, 2022 2:59 am
CrowsofFritz wrote: Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:33 am Woah, this is very 90s/early 2000s sounding. At least the intro. Really reminds me of playing an ATX video game with my friend back in middle school. That’s a nostalgia bomb. I really like it. Is the vocal sounding like it was recorded in a bathroom intentional? It doesn’t sound bad or anything. Just curious.
Before I saw this I was listening to it again and I'd picked up on this weirdy reverb thing that had slipped in somehow... perhaps that was what you were referring to. This track is cursed - I also managed to do complete harmonies without realising the microphone was around the wrong way and also put all the vocal effects on the bass, somehow. :confused:

Working too quickly, trying to get it done before it was ready. Sort of a metaphor of the lyrics, really. :lollers:
Some mics can be hard to tell. My two condensers have a diamond logo so that’s easy for me. My MXL I sold only had its switches. Something like a Rode NT1 would be hard, too.
“Naaaaaaaaaah man. I ain’t touching that mic. That thing’s expensive!”
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Re: (The last) new Honey Hunters - Bell the Cat

Post by vomitHatSteve »

I've probably heard the fable, but it's been a while.

On mix 2:
I like the aggressive bass tone.
I disagree with Ray on the snare being too loud.
I feel like there's something a little weird going on with the higher frequencies. The mix is mostly dark, but when the vocals are going there's a kind of high sparkle on it. (That I assume comes from LPFing everything but vox and drums?)
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Armistice
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Re: (The last) new Honey Hunters - Bell the Cat

Post by Armistice »

rayc wrote: Sun Dec 11, 2022 3:49 am 1st observation - the snare is a bit loud.
The bass needs some attack on the pedal note under the intro...it sounds fine under the rest but when that section is repeated I hear it again...you could automate the attack on the compressor for those sections to allow a little more transient stuff through or something else a better brain than mine could offer.
COOL song..though you do transgress an ancient rule, (for me), by using got.
Interesting that the parable/fable isn't commonly know...perhaps people have become used to the truncated idea from misuse rather like the "Life wasn't meant to be easy..." Faser paraphrasing.
OK - thanks ray - is there a "got" in there? Let's remember that it's a rant from a project manager who probably hasn't reached the higher standards of education... :biggrin:

I'll check the compressor settings - being doing a bit of that to let more of the transients through on bass.

The snare - the main hits anyway - is the same snare I always use, but it's a different style hit - but to use the "normal" one you sort of lose the rat-a-tat effect, so it was necessary. It's not a sound I'm normally fond of - again, I might buggerise around with the compressor on it to see if, rather than reduce the volume - see VHS's comments below - I can take a bit of the sting out of it. I can always increase the Attack setting in the VST itself as well.

Cheers
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Armistice
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Re: (The last) new Honey Hunters - Bell the Cat

Post by Armistice »

vomitHatSteve wrote: Sun Dec 11, 2022 5:27 pm I've probably heard the fable, but it's been a while.

On mix 2:
I like the aggressive bass tone.
I disagree with Ray on the snare being too loud.
I feel like there's something a little weird going on with the higher frequencies. The mix is mostly dark, but when the vocals are going there's a kind of high sparkle on it. (That I assume comes from LPFing everything but vox and drums?)
Oh I LPF everything, even vox and drums... :biggrin:

What I am finding, and I'm not liking it - is that when I sing more loudly, and thus get back off the mic a bit more, I'm losing the proximity effect thing and some of the bass overtones (which I tend so LPF off anyway, but some remain...) and so the entire vocal sounds a little more shrill and harsh than I like - perhaps that's what it is you're hearing. Plus I'm getting more bounceback from the walls, which is never good. Perhaps I'll go back to crooning... :biggrin:

Perhaps I'd be better off not going further back but reducing the input gain more... hmm. Too late now, of course, but next time.

I'll twiddle with EQs later - after I overcome the current House Crisis (GF came home yesterday and wanted to decorate the Xmas tree and we found that we don't own any Xmas tree lights... :eep: ) and can get back to the desk.

Cheers
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Armistice
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Re: (The last) new Honey Hunters - Bell the Cat

Post by Armistice »

CrowsofFritz wrote: Sun Dec 11, 2022 4:14 am
Armistice wrote: Sun Dec 11, 2022 2:59 am

Before I saw this I was listening to it again and I'd picked up on this weirdy reverb thing that had slipped in somehow... perhaps that was what you were referring to. This track is cursed - I also managed to do complete harmonies without realising the microphone was around the wrong way and also put all the vocal effects on the bass, somehow. :confused:

Working too quickly, trying to get it done before it was ready. Sort of a metaphor of the lyrics, really. :lollers:
Some mics can be hard to tell. My two condensers have a diamond logo so that’s easy for me. My MXL I sold only had its switches. Something like a Rode NT1 would be hard, too.
This was just me not paying attention. I've had the set up more or less in place while GF was away, and so I thought "Hmmmm, it's quiet, I'll bet I could quickly get the harmonies done!" I sat down at the desk, clicked phantom power on via the interface, clapped my hands to check for signal ... nothing - oh wait, I haven't actually put the microphone back on the stand... :facepalm2: did that, and must have been rehearsing the lines while I was doing it and so put it around the wrong way... sang all the harmonies without checking anything precisely because I've had everything set up and working etc. and then when I listened back I thought "Gee, what's gone wrong here ... oh fuck!" :lollers:

No biggie. Took all of 10 minutes to do them again given they're quite simple.

Haven't made that error for a very long time. :wink:
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Re: (The last) new Honey Hunters - Bell the Cat

Post by vomitHatSteve »

Armistice wrote: Sun Dec 11, 2022 6:19 pm
Oh I LPF everything, even vox and drums... :biggrin:

What I am finding, and I'm not liking it - is that when I sing more loudly, and thus get back off the mic a bit more, I'm losing the proximity effect thing and some of the bass overtones (which I tend so LPF off anyway, but some remain...) and so the entire vocal sounds a little more shrill and harsh than I like - perhaps that's what it is you're hearing. Plus I'm getting more bounceback from the walls, which is never good. Perhaps I'll go back to crooning... :biggrin:

Perhaps I'd be better off not going further back but reducing the input gain more... hmm. Too late now, of course, but next time.

I'll twiddle with EQs later - after I overcome the current House Crisis (GF came home yesterday and wanted to decorate the Xmas tree and we found that we don't own any Xmas tree lights... :eep: ) and can get back to the desk.

Cheers
It might be the bounceback. It kind of has that ambient, reflected sound about it.
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Armistice
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Re: (The last) new Honey Hunters - Bell the Cat

Post by Armistice »

vomitHatSteve wrote: Sun Dec 11, 2022 11:17 pm
Armistice wrote: Sun Dec 11, 2022 6:19 pm
Oh I LPF everything, even vox and drums... :biggrin:

What I am finding, and I'm not liking it - is that when I sing more loudly, and thus get back off the mic a bit more, I'm losing the proximity effect thing and some of the bass overtones (which I tend so LPF off anyway, but some remain...) and so the entire vocal sounds a little more shrill and harsh than I like - perhaps that's what it is you're hearing. Plus I'm getting more bounceback from the walls, which is never good. Perhaps I'll go back to crooning... :biggrin:

Perhaps I'd be better off not going further back but reducing the input gain more... hmm. Too late now, of course, but next time.

I'll twiddle with EQs later - after I overcome the current House Crisis (GF came home yesterday and wanted to decorate the Xmas tree and we found that we don't own any Xmas tree lights... :eep: ) and can get back to the desk.

Cheers
It might be the bounceback. It kind of has that ambient, reflected sound about it.
Could be, but I've just spent an hour or so going back into all the EQs on everything and seeing what's there. Very little apart from HPF-ing pretty much everything. Seeing the actual recording was done probably 2 years ago now - pretty sure it was before I came up here but I don't really remember - I never really "mixed" it apart from roughly - and then I just sang the lyrics and chucked them on so it's a bit unfinished compared to some of the others.

I'm just a bit over the whole process of late and I was rushing. I won't post it again yet, will do some more work on it first.

Cheers
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Re: (The last) new Honey Hunters - Bell the Cat

Post by JD01 »

Listening to version 2.
Oh, you've got a vocal doubler on this - sounds good.

Only thing is that the vocal does jump out in a few spots, more compression maybe?

Good song, Armi. I like this one a lot. The quirky timings really work.
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Re: (The last) new Honey Hunters - Bell the Cat

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JD01 wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 7:12 am Listening to version 2.
Oh, you've got a vocal doubler on this - sounds good.

Only thing is that the vocal does jump out in a few spots, more compression maybe?

Good song, Armi. I like this one a lot. The quirky timings really work.
I did put the CMX thing on it, but I've actually doubled the vocals the hard way where there's doubling... :biggrin: Pretty simple melody so not hard to do.

I'm changing vocal recording techniques at the last moment - record a guide vocal track and then practice against that for a bit and see where there are opportunities to change the melody, where I'm likely to have timing and pitch issues, then, when I think I'm ready, I just record a verse at a time, then go back and listen to the verse to see what I think of it and if there are things to be fixed, go back and either punch them in or re-do the whole verse until I'm happy with it, then move onto the next verse, or chorus or whatever... and not moving the microphone, even overnight, until I'm all done. So I just sang the doubles against the final verse/chorus before moving on.

As opposed to just recording 6 - 8 takes then discovering I'm making the same mistake in the same spot each damn time and I've packed the mic away and when I put it back up I can correct the mistake easily enough but the mic wasn't in the same spot and so it sounds different ... :frown: And that there's nothing close enough for doubling as I've sung everything slightly different every damn time.

I'm just finalising this track now so I'll go looking for the vocals that pop out a bit and poke them back in.

Then, the rather tedious business of turning it all into an album.

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Re: (The last) new Honey Hunters - Bell the Cat

Post by TripleM »

Overall I think this is an excellent mix. I like guitar parts. Guitars sound great too. Vocal is nice an clear, but not sterile.

If I had to come up with improvements... I still the bass is slightly low-end heavy. The guitars are competing just slightly with the vocal. I'm thinking if you pull down the guitars 1db (or even just a half-db) they and the vocal would sit perfect.
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Re: (The last) new Honey Hunters - Bell the Cat

Post by Armistice »

TripleM wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 9:28 pm Overall I think this is an excellent mix. I like guitar parts. Guitars sound great too. Vocal is nice an clear, but not sterile.

If I had to come up with improvements... I still the bass is slightly low-end heavy. The guitars are competing just slightly with the vocal. I'm thinking if you pull down the guitars 1db (or even just a half-db) they and the vocal would sit perfect.
Thanks Trip... I've made just those adjustments and reposted above.

Cheers
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Re: (The last) new Honey Hunters - Bell the Cat

Post by WhiskeyJack »

This is a pretty rad song man!! Nice.

I usually don't have much to say for your mixes they are always pretty clean. But i feel like the vox in the verses could come up just a we tad bit. Nah actually on a second listen i am just nit picking. I think they are fine right where they are.

Floor tom is a bit muddy to my ear.
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Re: (The last) new Honey Hunters - Bell the Cat

Post by JD01 »

That’s how I record vocals,
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Re: (The last) new Honey Hunters - Bell the Cat

Post by vomitHatSteve »

Armistice wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 8:47 pm recording 6 - 8 takes then discovering I'm making the same mistake in the same spot each damn time
You mean "surprise arrangement"?
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