Happy Xmas (War is Over) Vocals request

[CrowsofFritz]

So I’m doing my annual Christmas cover this year. I don’t know how long I’ll keep it up. I generally hate Christmas music.

I asked @musicturtle if his kids wanted to sing on it, but privacy laws. So he’s going to be one person singing. Anyone else want to sing on the chorus and outro? I’ll be making a video of this, too. I’m going to have an orchestra play on this as well. Should sound much fuller once they contribute.

[vomitHatSteve]

I could take a stab at this tomorrow, maybe

[CrowsofFritz]

I could take a stab at this tomorrow, maybe

Thanks, VHS!

[Armistice]

I can't do that key I'm afraid - it's off the top of my range and it doesn't sit properly down low either. Why I can never sing along with it - indeed, most male sung pop songs.

Crows, I have to ask - do you understand time signatures? As in, have you tracked it this way deliberately as some sort of artistic statement, or do you just not "get" time signatures and can't hear how this has gone awry from the original?

The song is a 6/8 song and you've tracked at 4/4 introducing gaps while you're waiting for the next line to come around and then when you sing the said next line it's not moving against the chord changes the way it does in the original. Then when you get to the chorus you've gone double time and the normal gaps where you can breathe before the next line.

Good luck with the orchestra - where do you get an orchestra to record anyway? - presuming you haven't written a complete new score for all the instruments, they're going to be using an existing score in 6/8 and they're probably going to go WTF is going on here? And it'll be completely disorientating for anyone trying to sing along who is familiar with the song - and that's pretty much the entire western world.

I'm not trying to be mean, but your cover of Vincent had similar issues.

Or maybe you're a genius. But I don't get it. Wouldn't be the first time.

[CrowsofFritz]

I can't do that key I'm afraid - it's off the top of my range and it doesn't sit properly down low either. Why I can never sing along with it - indeed, most male sung pop songs.

Crows, I have to ask - do you understand time signatures? As in, have you tracked it this way deliberately as some sort of artistic statement, or do you just not "get" time signatures and can't hear how this has gone awry from the original?

The song is a 6/8 song and you've tracked at 4/4 introducing gaps while you're waiting for the next line to come around and then when you sing the said next line it's not moving against the chord changes the way it does in the original. Then when you get to the chorus you've gone double time and the normal gaps where you can breathe before the next line.

Good luck with the orchestra - where do you get an orchestra to record anyway? - presuming you haven't written a complete new score for all the instruments, they're going to be using an existing score in 6/8 and they're probably going to go WTF is going on here? And it'll be completely disorientating for anyone trying to sing along who is familiar with the song - and that's pretty much the entire western world.

I'm not trying to be mean, but your cover of Vincent had similar issues.

Or maybe you're a genius. But I don't get it. Wouldn't be the first time.

Yeah, I know it’s 6/8, but I wanted to do it 4/4. This one is easier than Vincent. Couldn’t record THAT song for the life of me. I think if I have to finger pick the song, I just can’t do it. Chords are no problem. This one was deliberate, though. I thought doubling up after the pause would create a decent effect. And yeah, the score for the orchestra will be entirely new. I couldn’t even find them online (for free), so I would have had to pay extra anyway for them to do it their way, so I figured I’d make the song a little different. Is it jarring completely or just jarring because it’s different from the original? Funnily enough, the orchestra I’m getting will be cheaper than just the quartet I got on my last song.

As far as the vocals, I’m surprised I was able to hit the notes. Wouldn’t have been able to do that last year. I’m still kinda straining, but I usually know when my voice sounds bad, and this doesn’t sound so bad. Could be better, but it’s alright.

[rayc]

I'd like to help but a) I REALLY can't and b) the time signature change and the rushed/slowed phrasing would completely throw me off. I taught this song to school kids for a couple of decades JUST to get to the War Is Over If You Want It part, (I also taught Working Class Hero with a slight edit).
I do suspect that you'll struggle with this.

[CrowsofFritz]

I'd like to help but a) I REALLY can't and b) the time signature change and the rushed/slowed phrasing would completely throw me off. I taught this song to school kids for a couple of decades JUST to get to the War Is Over If You Want It part, (I also taught Working Class Hero with a slight edit).
I do suspect that you'll struggle with this.

No problem, Ray. I’d change it back to 6/8 to help, but the drums are already laid down and I don’t wanna ask him to do it again.

I’ll ask you, too. If you were to hear this song fresh as if I wrote it myself, does it sound off? Or does it only sound off in relation to the original because we’re all so familiar with it?

[rayc]

.

No problem, Ray. I’d change it back to 6/8 to help, but the drums are already laid down and I don’t wanna ask him to do it again.
I’ll ask you, too. If you were to hear this song fresh as if I wrote it myself, does it sound off? Or does it only sound off in relation to the original because we’re all so familiar with it?
[/quote]
As I wrote: I'm steeped in the original version, not just as a pre domesticated Lennon fan, but from school use as well.
I couldn't honestly say how this one is going because I can't divorce myself from the original.

[CrowsofFritz]

.

No problem, Ray. I’d change it back to 6/8 to help, but the drums are already laid down and I don’t wanna ask him to do it again.
I’ll ask you, too. If you were to hear this song fresh as if I wrote it myself, does it sound off? Or does it only sound off in relation to the original because we’re all so familiar with it?

As I wrote: I'm steeped in the original version, not just as a pre domesticated Lennon fan, but from school use as well.
I couldn't honestly say how this one is going because I can't divorce myself from the original.
[/quote]

Makes sense. There was a huge debate on HR about this roughly a month ago. Two camps really. One where people were saying “people don’t want to hear a deviation from the original. They want to hear it note for note.” And then the other camp, which I believe Bob and TAE are in, who say it doesn’t matter and that it stifles artistic liberties. I’m on the side of Bob’s opinion, though I still do have some opinions on the other side, too. I don’t care if people change the cover as long as it’s still executed well. But if they do something ludicrous, AND it sounds bad, I’ll draw the line there.

Funnily enough, though, I don’t like when singers add a bunch of extra notes to our national anthem, even if it sounds alright. Probably the only song in which I don’t like that. I know that’s kind of hypocritical of me, but I just can’t shake that off.

[rayc]

Some of my fave songs are interpretations.
The tribute albums to The Carpenters - If I Were A carpenter & to Leonard Cohen - I'm Your Fan make the case for reinvention with love.


&

A friend of mine changed As Time Goes By to a 4/4 rock song back in 76 for a stage show...it worked a treat and I wasn't terribly wedded to the original so had no issues with it.
Of course trying to pull off a perfect version may be the paying gig so real too.

Yes, the desire to show off through ululation rather than expression or being spot on is something the Star Spangled attracts.

[Armistice]

The thing that make people want to sing along with the song, apart from the sentiment, is the time signature. Without being aware of it - because the vast majority couldn't tell you what time it was in - they get into this sing songy / waltzy mode and their internal subconscious metronome is going 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6...

It's not that songs can't be reinterpreted - I note that the REM take on First We Take Manahattan (I prefer the Jennifer Warnes version myself) is true to the original time signature. Seeing the huge majority of modern pop music is in 4/4, people don't even give time sigs a thought. But you're not only changing the time signature, you're not applying that change consistently, with the double timing in the "chorus". Everyone knows this song. Everyone has it in their head. Everyone will feel the disconnect when listening because it's one of those songs, at this time of year, that people will want to be singing along to. It's disconcerting, not just because of the time sig change but also because you've shifted it forward as well - you're not changing chords against the same words that the original does.

"... and what have you done" - first beat of the bar. You have the chord change on "and". I'm no Lennon fan but the Beatles wrote a lot of the most popular pop songs ever - they knew what they were doing with timing, melody, chords etc.

So good luck with it - but it's not the same song. I couldn't care less if you interpret stuff, I just don't think it actually works, irrespective of the source material and its familiarity out in the world. Like I said - maybe you're a genius and it'll be a huge hit... I'll leave it alone now.

[rayc]

I note that the REM take on First We Take Manahattan (I prefer the Jennifer Warnes version myself) is true to the original time signature.

EEEEEK.
JW managed to emasculate both Cohen & Cocker.
Mind you doing a SRV licked version was certainly brave, (Another underwhelming performance by SRV though).
Luckily both moved on from her quickly enough.
But the association, despite the money it brought in, wasn't good for Old Joe.
Luckily Joe's version was pretty good.

[vomitHatSteve]

So obviously, I didn't do this yet, but I've downloaded the track

[JD01]

Crows. This is so weird.
I generally hate Christmas music... so I just like the way that this is a bit weird wonky with strange timing.

I can't help you with backings, I've just got way too much on my plate at the moment.

[CrowsofFritz]

Crows. This is so weird.
I generally hate Christmas music... so I just like the way that this is a bit weird wonky with strange timing.

I can't help you with backings, I've just got way too much on my plate at the moment.

I generally hate it, too. I don’t know what I’m going to do in the future because I’m checking off the only two Christmas songs I like.

No problem, JD!

It’s a lot like one of my songs on my latest album. “The Sun Will Rise.”

In the verse the time signature is absolutely chaotic. I’m surprised my drummer churned out his tracks so quickly to that. Then the chorus becomes a rigid 4/4. I’ve had people flat out tell me, “what is this time signature?” I showed it to my local record store owner and the first thing he said to me was that he loved the chaos of timing and then the order of the chorus. It shouldn’t make any sense at all yet it still sounds like it works. My other song “it’s getting colder” is rigid all the way through.

[Greg_L]

Wow that is strange. Changing the time really alters that song drastically. It's actually kind of unsettling.

But I'll try to help if I can. I'm gonna set up to do some other vocals here soon and if I can get to it I will.

[WhiskeyJack]

Crows, sorry but this is weird bud. The timing change is going to throw people off. I don't think it would matter much if it was an original piece but i think half the world population knows this song and this will just be odd to any listeners.

@2:25 there is some off time kick drum hits followed by what kind of sounds like maybe the guitar trying to play catch up and also off time. Are the drums real live human drums or samples and programming?

Mix wise, i think your guitar could use some parking up and brought a bit more forward or nudged a little left or right?

[vomitHatSteve]

I barely know the original, so I think I can still pull it off!

[vomitHatSteve]

So I'm working on this now. Boy! My respect for John Lennon as a songwriter is plummeting with each line!

[vomitHatSteve]

Alright, @CrowsofFritz: here you go: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/91fik7mowkx1 ... LdUGhcolXa