(Almost) new Honey Hunters - Rockets

[Armistice]

FILES REMOVED. Thanks for playing...



So I originally recorded this tune before moving to Queensland, and I'm sure I put it up here. Not sure it fits with the more minimal instrumentation style I'm now pursuing, what with about 18 different guitar tracks and 18 different backing vocal tracks, but I figured it was worth resurrecting. I hate unfinished business.

What annoyed me about the original recording was that various vocal notes were just grating at any volume - something to do with the capture that I don't understand and couldn't fix, but also the intro solo tone got on my nerves, and the chorus was too pedestrian and boring melodically.

So I redid the solo with the Duesenberg, and re-sang the entire thing. And seeing the timing and melody in the chorus were a bit different, that meant re-recording ALL the backing vocal tracks as well, except the Oooh tracks, which survived. Put a lot more energy into the chorus and the melody.

And here we are. It's long, it's a journey in more ways than one, and perhaps it's the album closer as it has a big finish, or maybe it won't make it at all. It's definitely a hot mess right now as there are just so many tracks and variables and kitchen sinks to control. But it's time to get it up and take it forward with some new ears - ie. yours. More words and guitar solos than any self-respecting song should need, but that's just the way it is.

GF is already singing along with it, so it must have some merit...

Rockets - Take 2





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Update - softer, kinder, gentler snare more in touch with its feelings, lower oohs, fatter intro solo, a few clicks vanquished and other general massaging...





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Hopefully version, the last - with various tweaks mentioned below...






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[vomitHatSteve]

I do remember you posting this title earlier, yeah.

It seems you've deleted it tho, so no A/Bing for us!

Your vocal harmonies do sound tighter and cleaner than normal on this one. It's nice.
The much more major key is a good switch up for you.

Personally, I might take the "oohs" down just a DB or two in the bridge.

So rockets here are a metaphor for freedom or something and not a penis? What an unusual way to write a song!

[rayc]

hot mess
1:08 & 1.14 some clicks that seem to be out of place if intended.
The snare sounds very bright & dry and seems to be a little left of centre.
The spot in the last verse, "I'm pretty good at endings, time to make another start", where you dropped the phrasing, for something sooner & more conversational, works but my brain did want the more conventional.
Cool song...starts off quite Televisonish during the intro...Dusenberg sounds good.

[Armistice]

I do remember you posting this title earlier, yeah.

It seems you've deleted it tho, so no A/Bing for us!

Your vocal harmonies do sound tighter and cleaner than normal on this one. It's nice.
The much more major key is a good switch up for you.

Personally, I might take the "oohs" down just a DB or two in the bridge.

So rockets here are a metaphor for freedom or something and not a penis? What an unusual way to write a song!

I'm known for my unconventional use of metaphor...

"Rockets" as a metaphor for getting in your car and driving. It's very out there...

I'll look into the ooohs... and yeah, I tend to take old stuff down once it disappears from the front page - but it seems that in the current environment, unless I commit to a triple album, that might take a while...

[Armistice]

hot mess
1:08 & 1.14 some clicks that seem to be out of place if intended.
The snare sounds very bright & dry and seems to be a little left of centre.
The spot in the last verse, "I'm pretty good at endings, time to make another start", where you dropped the phrasing, for something sooner & more conversational, works but my brain did want the more conventional.
Cool song...starts off quite Televisonish during the intro...Dusenberg sounds good.

Thanks ray - I did something different with the recording of this one in that I used the AI's compressor on the way in, and I'm still trying to decide if it was worth the effort - the vocal level was certainly more consistent but I was horrified at the noise it introduced into the chain, and because of my amateurish singing style the "quiet" little clicks and pops that I'm always hunting down are now louder than they would have been.

I'll have a check for those times and see what's happening.

Listening to my soloing, there's always a bit of Tom Verlaine in there somewhere - I thought the middle one was more overtly Television, but there's a definite bit of TV in all the solos - not the song itself as it's a million miles away from their ouevre.

The geography is set around my mate's place out near Dalby, coming out of the long drought back a few years, although he's a teacher, not a farmer - but he was still having to cart water in to water the horses. So where you are is a bit far and a bit east and a bit small to be one of the "towns through the mountains to the north" but where I am is very definitely part of the "ocean and cities in the east".

Probably just as well for Cooran. You don't want this guy in your town - he's a wastrel, by the sounds of it.

[Tadpui]

Sounds pretty much album-ready to me. The intro solo guitar tone sounds pretty thin for my tastes, but it works in the main solo. About my only suggestion would be to beef up the intro solo tone a bit so it's not so conspicuously thin sounding.

[Armistice]

Sounds pretty much album-ready to me. The intro solo guitar tone sounds pretty thin for my tastes, but it works in the main solo. About my only suggestion would be to beef up the intro solo tone a bit so it's not so conspicuously thin sounding.

Cheers Tad. Upped the "tube emulation" preamps on the track a bit to hopefully fatten that baby for you. It's way better than the original...

[vomitHatSteve]

The snare sounds very bright & dry and seems to be a little left of centre.

I might agree on the brightness, but being slightly left of center isn't a deal-breaker for me. (It makes sense to me if you're mixing drums from the drummer's perspective, the snare is often a tiny bit left.)

[Armistice]

The snare was dead centre, as were the hats and ride - I assumed when I last mixed it I'd put them somewhere else, but I hadn't.

Snare now is slightly left of centre, as are the hats. Ride on the right.

[JD01]

Armi - this is really good, lead vocal might be a tiny bit loud actually. (V7)
Like the sound you've got on the bass on this, initially I thought it needed more attack but it really suits the song as it is - I was just think what bass sound I'd want which isn't necessarily what you need.
The vocal seems a bit loud in a couple of places - sounds like you could just compress it a bit more at the end of the choruses
Only critique is that it sounds a bit dense... but a couple of suggestions that you might like:
1. The rhythm guitars at the start sound like they're hard panned and playing exactly the same thing - why not try a different chord voicing on each side. That would be a very Honey Hunters/Armi thing to do.
2. Similarly - the third guitar that comes in during the chorus in the centre could easily just replace one of the double tracked rhythms.

[Armistice]

Armi - this is really good, lead vocal might be a tiny bit loud actually. (V7)
Like the sound you've got on the bass on this, initially I thought it needed more attack but it really suits the song as it is - I was just think what bass sound I'd want which isn't necessarily what you need.
The vocal seems a bit loud in a couple of places - sounds like you could just compress it a bit more at the end of the choruses
Only critique is that it sounds a bit dense... but a couple of suggestions that you might like:
1. The rhythm guitars at the start sound like they're hard panned and playing exactly the same thing - why not try a different chord voicing on each side. That would be a very Honey Hunters/Armi thing to do.
2. Similarly - the third guitar that comes in during the chorus in the centre could easily just replace one of the double tracked rhythms.

Thanks, and yes the LV is a little loud - thought the same as I was listening last night. Just in spots though - it's become such a complex beast I'll have to poke bits of it back down a little via the volume envelope - the singing normally / spoken word / singing loudly in the chorus thing is a bit of a beast to get under control at times.

I probably need a better compressor than good old ReaComp - I rarely seem to have much compression going on with vocals, but lots of enveloping. I think I've got too used to the Reaper plugs on everything. No doubt I have something else there somewhere, might be time to dig it out for the next tune.

I'll give some thought to moving guitars around - I've already made some changes in volumes to various things in various places to make it seem less dense, just haven't put them up, but I'll probably keep the twin hard panned thing, just emphasise and de-emphasise various things.

Cheers

[TripleM]

I listened to both versions. The second version addressed a lot of what I was hearing in the first. The first version had a bit too much edge to the guitars and vocal. General tone is better in the second version.

In the second version, I'm still hearing mouth clicks at: :56, 1:08, and 1:14. Another more minor spot or two.

The other nit is in the bass. It's slightly undefined. I'm thinking I'd like it if there were more definition between the notes.

And I also remember this from way back.

[Armistice]

I listened to both versions. The second version addressed a lot of what I was hearing in the first. The first version had a bit too much edge to the guitars and vocal. General tone is better in the second version.

In the second version, I'm still hearing mouth clicks at: :56, 1:08, and 1:14. Another more minor spot or two.

The other nit is in the bass. It's slightly undefined. I'm thinking I'd like it if there were more definition between the notes.

And I also remember this from way back.

Thanks Trip - found the first one but not so successful on the others, but I'd already done a bit of cleaning up, so who knows.

That's the problem with all these backing vocals and lots of fricative and sibilant words in them...

Not too sure what was to be done about the bass, but I brightened it up a little, which perhaps increases the definition.

Cheers

[TripleM]

Thanks Trip - found the first one but not so successful on the others, but I'd already done a bit of cleaning up, so who knows.

That's the problem with all these backing vocals and lots of fricative and sibilant words in them...

Not too sure what was to be done about the bass, but I brightened it up a little, which perhaps increases the definition.

Cheers

The last two clicks were more noticeable in the first version. I could tell you tamed them in the second version, but they were still a bit audible. Maybe because I was listening for them.

And the bass comment was a real nitpicky thing. It's good as it is.

[Armistice]

Thanks Trip - found the first one but not so successful on the others, but I'd already done a bit of cleaning up, so who knows.

That's the problem with all these backing vocals and lots of fricative and sibilant words in them...

Not too sure what was to be done about the bass, but I brightened it up a little, which perhaps increases the definition.

Cheers

The last two clicks were more noticeable in the first version. I could tell you tamed them in the second version, but they were still a bit audible. Maybe because I was listening for them.

And the bass comment was a real nitpicky thing. It's good as it is.

It's good that you pick them up - I'm going to have to seriously address mic technique before the next song as I'm sick of spending hours and hours editing damn clicks and pops and fricatives and sibilants and plosives in my main vocal track.

Clearly I'm doing it wrong as I don't see anyone else having the issue to this extent, so I'll perhaps go back to first principles and do some test drives of new gain / distance from mic choices and see if I get better results at the outset rather than dealing with them in the mix - which is, of course, the way it should be.

Your input is always appreciated - in particular because of everyone here, you'll tell me exact frequencies to work with - I'm never sure exactly what "lower mids" etc. mean... but exact frequency numbers I can work with.

[Manslick]

Well this sounds fine to me.
I do like the suspended ending.
Background vox are very nice.
Keep wanting to add a synth pad ala "I'm your Captain" and have it outro longer with a ride cymbal bell ting thing.

[WhiskeyJack]

I am coming in on the last mix it seems.

I got nothing man. Everything sounds really good and balanced I quite like how you have the drums sitting in their little space. You are really good and the spatial gravity of a mix dude. Very envious or your ear for that sort of thing. I don't like wet and i don't love bone dry and yours always seem to be a really nice in between i can't ever seem to find.

Cool Solo.

Yea man, 2nd listen i got nothing at all. Love the bass work in this too.