This 70s mixing style that I like

[JD01]

There's this style of mix that I really like and I can't put my finger on why.

I was listening to music in the car this morning and it occurred to me that I like loads of songs that remind me of the theme to Diff'rent Strokes.

Frederick by Patti Smith, Kid Charlemagne by Steely Dan, Johnny Strikes Up The Band by Warren Zevon... there's other stuff from that era too.

I'm not sure what is other than they seem to have a pretty dry compressed drum sound. There's not much that really sounded like that before and by the 80s everything was awash with reverb. It seems to be a really uniquely late 70s sound. I really like it but I'm not sure what it is that makes it sound so unique to me. Any ideas?

[Greg_L]

What you're hearing is real people playing real instruments.

[WhiskeyJack]

Like this?



I know the sound you are talking about and i think that is it. It definitely has it's own vibe. If i had to take a wager i think it was just the flavor of mastering for that time. @Lt. Bob might have a more objective insight into how / why stuff was mixed / mastered like that.

I just associate it with it the "record" sound of my parents. Full broad and woody. Pairs well with that brown paneling that was everywhere back then.

[JD01]

Like this?



I know the sound you are talking about and i think that is it. It definitely has it's own vibe. If i had to take a wager i think it was just the flavor of mastering for that time. @Lt. Bob might have a more objective insight into how / why stuff was mixed / mastered like that.

I just associate it with it the "record" sound of my parents. Full broad and woody. Pairs well with that brown paneling that was everywhere back then.

That's kind of like it, to be that sounds bigger and more classic rock, like Rainbow or something. Not quite like rainbow, but heading in that direction.

Yeah, this : Full broad and woody. Pairs well with that brown paneling that was everywhere back then.

[JD01]

What you're hearing is real people playing real instruments.

Yeah, there is that. But there's loads of other good stuff around that doesn't sound like that.

Speaking of Patti Smith, while I've listened to her 70s stuff quite a lot, I haven't really listened to her comeback stuff. There's this really cool song that she wrote with Fred just before he died called Summer Cannibals that's really cool. Only heard it for the first time a couple of days ago.

[Greg_L]

Yeah, there is that. But there's loads of other good stuff around that doesn't sound like that.

To me, the way I hear it, that's the one thing most 70s mainstream rock has in common. It all has that same kind of sound. It's a raw-ish isolated punchy real instrument kind of sound. Real bands really playing real music. And they often played live in real studios. And those studios often used pretty much the same kind of gear. The rooms would obviously be different, but they were all doing the same things. The musical gear and recording gear wasn't that varied, and this was before artificial stuff really started dominating the landscape. I like the 70s rock sound. Not so much the music, but the sound was awesome.

[WhiskeyJack]

Like this?



I know the sound you are talking about and i think that is it. It definitely has it's own vibe. If i had to take a wager i think it was just the flavor of mastering for that time. @Lt. Bob might have a more objective insight into how / why stuff was mixed / mastered like that.

I just associate it with it the "record" sound of my parents. Full broad and woody. Pairs well with that brown paneling that was everywhere back then.

That's kind of like it, to be that sounds bigger and more classic rock, like Rainbow or something. Not quite like rainbow, but heading in that direction.

Yeah, this : Full broad and woody. Pairs well with that brown paneling that was everywhere back then.

Thats the youtube garbage compression version. I just listened to it on spotify and it sounds veyr different and much more in line with what i think you are hearing. But regarldess i get it.

Will wait for Lt to chime in. Curious to digest his thoughts.

[WhiskeyJack]

What you're hearing is real people playing real instruments.

I don't know that i agree with this as a blanket reason.




that song is also real people playing instruments and it doesn't have that vibe that JD is talking about. There is some mix/master voodoo involved to a degree. It could also be nothing more than the advancement of technology for the time period and or could be a deliberate method to get it sounding like that. I can't say for 100% certain.

yes the players make a difference and there is no artificial life then. I can't disagree. But in either instance there are other things in play that make it sound that way beyond just real humans playing music.

[JD01]

Yeah, there is that. But there's loads of other good stuff around that doesn't sound like that.

To me, the way I hear it, that's the one thing most 70s mainstream rock has in common. It all has that same kind of sound. It's a raw-ish isolated punchy real instrument kind of sound. Real bands really playing real music. And they often played live in real studios. And those studios often used pretty much the same kind of gear. The rooms would obviously be different, but they were all doing the same things. The musical gear and recording gear wasn't that varied, and this was before artificial stuff really started dominating the landscape. I like the 70s rock sound. Not so much the music, but the sound was awesome.

When I think of the 70s rock sound I think of think of massive sounding things like Rainbow, Toto, Kansas etc. not this sort of tight sound that I'm failing to describe well.

[Greg_L]

What you're hearing is real people playing real instruments.

I don't know that i agree with this as a blanket reason.




that song is also real people playing instruments and it doesn't have that vibe that JD is talking about. There is some mix/master voodoo involved to a degree. It could also be nothing more than the advancement of technology for the time period and or could be a deliberate method to get it sounding like that. I can't say for 100% certain.

yes the players make a difference and there is no artificial life then. I can't disagree. But in either instance there are other things in play that make it sound that way beyond just real humans playing music.

Lol that Louis Prima song is probably from the early 50s. Big recording difference between the 50s and the late 70s.

[WhiskeyJack]

I don't know that i agree with this as a blanket reason.




that song is also real people playing instruments and it doesn't have that vibe that JD is talking about. There is some mix/master voodoo involved to a degree. It could also be nothing more than the advancement of technology for the time period and or could be a deliberate method to get it sounding like that. I can't say for 100% certain.

yes the players make a difference and there is no artificial life then. I can't disagree. But in either instance there are other things in play that make it sound that way beyond just real humans playing music.

Lol that Louis Prima song is probably from the early 50s. Big recording difference between the 50s and the late 70s.

Exactly my point. We can't just make a blanket statement saying it just real people playing real stuff that makes the difference. There is more math to factor into the equation.

[Greg_L]

When I think of the 70s rock sound I think of think of massive sounding things like Rainbow, Toto, Kansas etc. not this sort of tight sound that I'm failing to describe well.

But look more at what they didn't do to those mixes. They didn't compress them to hell and back. They didn't load them up with samples, fixes, grid snaps, etc. Sure the preamps, consoles, and use of tape colored the sound to a degree, but at their core they are real people playing real things. It was moving air. It was imperfection and reality. There is an energy in that old stuff that is really hard to replicate as one guy sitting in a spare room pushing a mouse around.

[JD01]

There is an energy in that old stuff that is really hard to replicate as one guy sitting in a spare room pushing a mouse around.

I totally agree... but there's a big difference between the sound of Rainbow, Kansas or Toto and Patti Smith's 3rd or 4th album, The Royal Scam, Warewolves of London and the theme from Diff'rent Strokes. In my head I even think of it as the 70s TV theme sound.

[Greg_L]

Exactly my point. We can't just make a blanket statement saying it just real people playing real stuff that makes the difference. There is more math to factor into the equation.

Not really though. There's no math...that's the beauty of 70s recordings. No math! No 1s and 0s. All real sounds...mostly. It's organic and pure. The only difference between Louis Prima's 50s recording and a 70s Led Zeppelin record is recording technology. And the difference between a 70s record and a modern record is the overuse of recording technology. The reason why it's hard to sound like the 70s is we aren't playing or recording like that anymore.

[Greg_L]

I totally agree... but there's a big difference between the sound of Rainbow, Kansas or Toto and Patti Smith's 3rd or 4th album, The Royal Scam, Warewolves of London and the theme from Diff'rent Strokes. In my head I even think of it as the 70s TV theme sound.

I don't know anything about TV themes, but if you're getting into time and budgets then that naturally makes a difference no matter the era. Rainbow or Kansas would probably have more $$$ backing than Patti Smith. But 70s rock stuff still has a 70s rock sound, pretty much no matter who it is.

[Lt. Bob]

To me, the way I hear it, that's the one thing most 70s mainstream rock has in common. It all has that same kind of sound. It's a raw-ish isolated punchy real instrument kind of sound. Real bands really playing real music. And they often played live in real studios. And those studios often used pretty much the same kind of gear. The rooms would obviously be different, but they were all doing the same things. The musical gear and recording gear wasn't that varied, and this was before artificial stuff really started dominating the landscape. I

^^^^^ this ^^^^^

it's hard for anyone younger than maybe 50 to quite get how primitive recording was by today's standards .... they didn't HAVE digital anything for the most part and even pedals were just starting to show up in small numbers.

I remember seeing the first Maestro Phaser when a band I was in went out partying and there was this band that had one on a mic stand.
We were just astounded by it and that was early 70's ....I remember that first MXR digital delay or the Linn drum and both were just crap by todays standards.
And when the Dynacomp came out everyone had one ..... and it would be their only pedal because there just weren't that many pedals.
And the Dynacomp is 'meh' on its best day.

They did NOT have keyboards like we think of them .. if you wanted a B3 sound you had to haul around a B3 and a Leslie and in '73 one of my bands got a Mellotron .... holy crap what a POS!
Yeah maybe you like the sound but it's easy to get nowadays without hauling around a delicate POS that would only give you 7 or 8 seconds of a note before the tape had to reset.
I guaruntee you that a single gig would be the end of you liking a Mellotron.

The most you could get for home recording was 4 channels and when you started seeing 8 channel reel to reel on 1/4" tape we were amazed.

Until about the late 70s no one had many pedals and there weren't that many to have anyways.

There is a lot of nostalgia these days about that old gear because so many important records were made using it.
But it was musicians getting the most from the little we had.
I've had most of the amps/guitars that are worth so much these days and I do wish I had them back .... but only so I could sell them to someone who thinks a guitar being old makes it worth 30,000 dollars.
I can buy 300-500 dollar guitars that are bad ass and really, just as good.

So that's one issue.

As for mixing ..... I have actually mixed stuff in some important studios like Studio in the Country where Kansas and Stevie Wonder did some of their albums and Capricorn and had long talks with those engineers.. .. I was told that every single individual instrument or voice right down to the hi-hat should be mixed so that if you chose, you could focus on that single thing and hear it clearly .... mostly nothing should be buried in the mix.
Also they 'sat' things in the mix by listening ....... I don't remember ever hearing a single time the idea that you carve out a frequency place to put this or that.
They used their ears and pretty much nothing else .... now you might get the same result.
I will think, "Oh the bass is muddy .... think I'll pull down 400hz .... but that's only because my ears have learned that's where the mud is ..... but even then I go by what my ears tell me when deciding if it's better.
So I am very careful to make everything cut thru the mix ....not just this or that ...... I want you to be able to focus on that one little unimportant instrument in the background and be able to hear every note it does.

For mixing that's where I get my main mixing process which I have mentioned here and got it from some of those good engineers because this is how they did it so perhaps this is the mixing concept you're looking for.

[Armistice]

Possibly not having a gazillion tracks available forced decisions in the direction of simplicity upon people. While I like lots of 70s music, there's not that much of it with triple tracked each side guitars in it because they couldn't.

I know what you mean though. I think a lot of it is an EQ approach, and to some extent the limitations of the media they were working with/on.

[rayc]

Patti Smith and a whole bundle of late prog...
Diff'rent Strokes - eek. WILD reference point.

to
(clicky kick for the time & a vague rewrite of Because the Night)
Both have plenty of fill via keys - Todd is a good producer too those flourishes are more him than her and has a little Meat in it.

Hs that slightly clicky kick - all three have a fairly forward kick.

[Greg_L]

Listen to the drums in those two songs...ignoring the stupid TV theme.

That's what drums sound like. They don't sound like the hyper-processed perfectly quantized modern bombastic drums we're used to hearing now. The kick isn't super deep and bassy, nor is the attack too clicky. It's a mild thump. The snare is sort of a donky thud and there's snare wire buzz. The toms have tone but are mostly pretty flat and dead. That's what drums really sound like. That is a tell-tale 70s sound if you ask me.

[Tadpui]

To me, that '70s sound is driven by dead-sounding drums with very short decay times and very little ambiance. I guess a lot of bands like Zep were doing big roomy lively drums, but there was that "other" approach that was on a ton of records throughout the 70s where they had the low-tuned super dead snare, towels over the toms, kick drums stuffed with blankets and whatnot, and a really dead room.

That, and there was a certain character of saturation that seemed to be on everything in the mix. Maybe it was the preamps of the era, maybe a by-product of pushing just the right amount of "too much" signal to tape? The bass guitars seemed to have a certain "shape" on the low end too. Not a ton of sub-bass rumble, more mids and no highs. Actually the entire character of the highs on some of those 70s mixes were kinda subdued. Not crisp and bright, but smooth and a little dark.

I'll have to listen to a few things tonight and see if any other trends come to my ear.