Society - Ed Vedder cover

[JD01]

Listened to this when I was driving yesterday and it was immediately apparent what the problem was with the vocal always sounding boxy and making me sound like I had a cold. I hadn't put a hi-pass on the vocal reverb. So there was this bottom end of vocal reverb kind of washing through the mix. Hi-passed it and the vocal clears up a bit but it also makes the whole mix sound less muddy.

[Greg_L]

Okay but why are you needing to hi-pass a reverb? What reverb are you using and why is there so much bass in it? Is it the reverb that's got too much bass, or is the bass in your vocal processing over-exciting the reverb?

I don't think I've ever hi-passed a vocal reverb. I'm not saying that my dumb shit is any kind of benchmark, I'm just saying I've never had so much low end muck in vocals that I've had to hi-pass a vocal reverb.

[JD01]

Okay but why are you needing to hi-pass a reverb? What reverb are you using and why is there so much bass in it? Is it the reverb that's got too much bass, or is the bass in your vocal processing over-exciting the reverb?

I don't think I've ever hi-passed a vocal reverb. I'm not saying that my dumb shit is any kind of benchmark, I'm just saying I've never had so much low end muck in vocals that I've had to hi-pass a vocal reverb.

Why? Same with anything really, you do it 'cos you need to. Why is it there, I don't know... too close to the mic in a small room maybe?
I'm just using an impulse called "voc ambience" or something like that. For ages I was sticking everything in my whole mix into one impulse called "Live - Great Room" but it didn't really work with vocals.

Adding an EQ to my reverb impulse was actually an idea that Rami gave me years ago. I was struggling to get a drum sound without my kick drum going all flappy and weird so he told me to hi-pass the reverb impulse which immediately worked.

[Greg_L]

Why? Same with anything really, you do it 'cos you need to. Why is it there, I don't know... too close to the mic in a small room maybe?
I'm just using an impulse called "voc ambience" or something like that. For ages I was sticking everything in my whole mix into one impulse called "Live - Great Room" but it didn't really work with vocals.

Adding an EQ to my reverb impulse was actually an idea that Rami gave me years ago. I was struggling to get a drum sound without my kick drum going all flappy and weird so he told me to hi-pass the reverb impulse which immediately worked.

Sure do it if it needs it. What mic are you using for vocals? What kind of EQ are you putting on your vocals?

[JD01]

Why? Same with anything really, you do it 'cos you need to. Why is it there, I don't know... too close to the mic in a small room maybe?
I'm just using an impulse called "voc ambience" or something like that. For ages I was sticking everything in my whole mix into one impulse called "Live - Great Room" but it didn't really work with vocals.

Adding an EQ to my reverb impulse was actually an idea that Rami gave me years ago. I was struggling to get a drum sound without my kick drum going all flappy and weird so he told me to hi-pass the reverb impulse which immediately worked.

Sure do it if it needs it. What mic are you using for vocals? What kind of EQ are you putting on your vocals?

A R0DE, NT1 I think - Its a nice mic, not known for having a hyped low end, I certainly don't think it does.
Vocal EQ is a Hi Pass at 150, compression, then an EQ with a hi pass at about 100, a dip at about 400 and a bump at about 2.5k, then a roll off of the top end down to about 16k to stop it getting spitty. Nothing drastic or weird - that's all pretty standard stuff isn't it.

To further try and de-mud things I have an EQ on the vocal buss too - Just a hi-pass at 100 and a dip at 400.

[Greg_L]

Wow okay. That's a lot of EQing.

Maybe move your hi-passes up. There's probably not much happening down at 100-150hz in a vocal track unless you have super crazy proximity effect. You might be doing all those hi-passes and not actually grabbing any of the problem.

[JD01]

Wow okay. That's a lot of EQing.

Maybe move your hi-passes up. There's probably not much happening down at 100-150hz in a vocal track unless you have super crazy proximity effect. You might be doing all those hi-passes and not actually grabbing any of the problem.

Oh, I thought my EQing was pretty boring and normal.
The hi-pass before the compressor is just so you don't have the bottom end hitting the compressor, the bulk of the EQ is after the compressor 'cos the compression tends to bring the low end back a bit. I find the Focusrite "Red2" EQ far more aggressive than ReaEQ, particularly with its hi-pass, so that's the one I use after the compressor.

[Greg_L]

Oh, I thought my EQing was pretty boring and normal.
The hi-pass before the compressor is just so you don't have the bottom end hitting the compressor, the bulk of the EQ is after the compressor 'cos the compression tends to bring the low end back a bit. I find the Focusrite "Red2" EQ far more aggressive than ReaEQ, particularly with its hi-pass, so that's the one I use after the compressor.

I get all that, it makes sense in theory. I wouldn't say it's boring. Maybe normal? Is three EQs on a vocal track normal? I don't know.

But normal or not, it wasn't enough, right? You have low end building up all over the place. The drums, the bass, the vocals...I don't know why, maybe it's the reverbs you're using. Maybe it's the source sounds. Having to throw a ton of EQs everywhere seems to me like the problems are before the EQs.

[JD01]

I'll have to give it a bit more thought. I'll certainly look at being a bit more aggressive with the hi-pass on the vocal to start with.