Society - Ed Vedder cover

[Greg_L]

Vocals are totally buried man. It's hardly different from Mix 2. It's still boomy and fluffy in the low mids, vocals are totally buried.

[JD01]

Vocals are totally buried man. It's hardly different from Mix 2. It's still boomy and fluffy in the low mids, vocals are totally buried.

Ergh, not sure what to do with this now.

[Greg_L]

Ergh, not sure what to do with this now.

Start over. It's not that complex of a mix. I don't know what your monitoring situation is but I honestly don't think you're hearing properly.

First thing you need to decide is wtf do you want it to sound like? Polished radio rock? Pop-punk? Dirty garage recording?

If it were me, the way I'm hearing it, I'd start with better and/or different drum samples. There's all kinds of fluff and muck and room in those drums that IMO doesn't really work for a rocked up version of some acoustic folk song. They're really clouding up the middle of your mix. Your guitars sound pretty good. The bass seems okay. The drums and vocals are the problem.

Second, stop hating your vocals. You work with what you got. No, you're not gonna be singing opera any time soon, but that's okay. Get them up in the mix. It's not that bad. A buried hidden vocal sounds worse to me than a less-than-perfect vocal that you can hear. If you really hate your vocals that much then just do instrumentals or get someone else to sing. It also doesn't help that I think you're doing this song in a key that doesn't work for your range. If your vocals are limited, like mine are, I find that using a key that makes you get louder works better. It's easier to yell than to carry a pitch in a lower register. Like guitar speakers, you need to move air. At least if you're belting it out it sounds like you're belting it out, and there's much more room for little errors if you're yelling. It sounds better.

Thirdth...back off the reverbs, or delays, or whatever you're using. Up-tempo songs don't really have the space for a bunch of effects. Your drums and vocals sound like they're in a concrete box. Back that shit down or use different settings. You need more clarity, not more doom and boom.

These are just my stupid opinions from hearing your mixes. They generally all seem to suffer from the same problems from the way I hear them.

[Greg_L]

I just pulled your mix into Reaper to give it an overall EQ to satisfy mine own ear holes. This is just for my tastes, but to me you have a massive buildup of low end and low mid muckage that is really clusterfucking everything. All the details I think you'd want to hear are drowning in low end quicksand. I cleaned all that out and gave it some "air". Bam, there's a nice punchy kick drum and the vocals got way way better.

[vomitHatSteve]

The vocal boost was probably a good call

[WhiskeyJack]

Mix 3 got a bit darker overall and the vox are still quite buried JD. If you have Mix 2 saved maybe go back it as a new starting point.

[JD01]

I just pulled your mix into Reaper to give it an overall EQ to satisfy mine own ear holes. This is just for my tastes, but to me you have a massive buildup of low end and low mid muckage that is really clusterfucking everything. All the details I think you'd want to hear are drowning in low end quicksand. I cleaned all that out and gave it some "air". Bam, there's a nice punchy kick drum and the vocals got way way better.

Cheers - I'll wave around a ReaEQ cut through the low mids of the drums and vocals to see if I can get anywhere.

[Alison]

Oh man, I hadn't been able to drop by until now and couldn't believe that you covered Society! Love the song and do a cover of it too. When I have some time, I'll see if I can do a quick-ish recording of my version, you can probably guess how I do it, aha, ha! The whole soundtrack to Into the Wild is pretty great stuff.

Anyway, I really like your version. Pretty dark but, then it is a rather dark song. Love that you added harmonies, they really sound good! As usual, I'd love to hear the vocals more. I do agree with Greg about the drums but really can't suggest what to do with them. Cool version!

[JD01]

Oh man, I hadn't been able to drop by until now and couldn't believe that you covered Society! Love the song and do a cover of it too. When I have some time, I'll see if I can do a quick-ish recording of my version, you can probably guess how I do it, aha, ha! The whole soundtrack to Into the Wild is pretty great stuff.

Anyway, I really like your version. Pretty dark but, then it is a rather dark song. Love that you added harmonies, they really sound good! As usual, I'd love to hear the vocals more. I do agree with Greg about the drums but really can't suggest what to do with them. Cool version!

Cheers Alison - I quite like the soundtrack to Into The Wild too, my mrs plays it a lot!
There are actually some limited harmonies on the original... but like most things I do, its basically in the style of a poor-man's Bad Religion.

I'm gonna have another go at this later this afternoon if I get time.

Start over. It's not that complex of a mix. I don't know what your monitoring situation is but I honestly don't think you're hearing properly.

First thing you need to decide is wtf do you want it to sound like? Polished radio rock? Pop-punk? Dirty garage recording?

If it were me, the way I'm hearing it, I'd start with better and/or different drum samples. There's all kinds of fluff and muck and room in those drums that IMO doesn't really work for a rocked up version of some acoustic folk song. They're really clouding up the middle of your mix. Your guitars sound pretty good. The bass seems okay. The drums and vocals are the problem.

Second, stop hating your vocals. You work with what you got. No, you're not gonna be singing opera any time soon, but that's okay. Get them up in the mix. It's not that bad. A buried hidden vocal sounds worse to me than a less-than-perfect vocal that you can hear. If you really hate your vocals that much then just do instrumentals or get someone else to sing. It also doesn't help that I think you're doing this song in a key that doesn't work for your range. If your vocals are limited, like mine are, I find that using a key that makes you get louder works better. It's easier to yell than to carry a pitch in a lower register. Like guitar speakers, you need to move air. At least if you're belting it out it sounds like you're belting it out, and there's much more room for little errors if you're yelling. It sounds better.

Thirdth...back off the reverbs, or delays, or whatever you're using. Up-tempo songs don't really have the space for a bunch of effects. Your drums and vocals sound like they're in a concrete box. Back that shit down or use different settings. You need more clarity, not more doom and boom.

These are just my stupid opinions from hearing your mixes. They generally all seem to suffer from the same problems from the way I hear them.

I'm definitely not hearing properly - I've not got proper tinitus but there's some weird shit going on inside my head.
Seems OK at the moment but sometimes my hearing feels almost like it goes into mono - its weird, I can hear really good, i'm still hearing quiet noises from around the house quite acutely but I've got no sense of direction at all and sounds feel really competitive with eachother - still a little better today, so I'm gonna try and re-sculpt those vocals a bit and clear some mud out of the drum mix.

[Greg_L]

I'm definitely not hearing properly - I've not got proper tinitus but there's some weird shit going on inside my head.
Seems OK at the moment but sometimes my hearing feels almost like it goes into mono - its weird, I can hear really good, i'm still hearing quiet noises from around the house quite acutely but I've got no sense of direction at all and sounds feel really competitive with eachother - still a little better today, so I'm gonna try and re-sculpt those vocals a bit and clear some mud out of the drum mix.

Go to a doctor and get an actual hearing test and/or ear examination. Cuz I'm telling you straight up, your mixes are often muddy and murky and you're not hearing it that way. It could be your environment, it could be your ears, it could be both.

[JD01]

I'm definitely not hearing properly - I've not got proper tinitus but there's some weird shit going on inside my head.
Seems OK at the moment but sometimes my hearing feels almost like it goes into mono - its weird, I can hear really good, i'm still hearing quiet noises from around the house quite acutely but I've got no sense of direction at all and sounds feel really competitive with eachother - still a little better today, so I'm gonna try and re-sculpt those vocals a bit and clear some mud out of the drum mix.

Go to a doctor and get an actual hearing test and/or ear examination. Cuz I'm telling you straight up, your mixes are often muddy and murky and you're not hearing it that way. It could be your environment, it could be your ears, it could be both.

I listen on a bunch of different systems too, monitors, reference cans, my "nice" Sony headphones etc. Lower mid-range is a pretty unusual place to get hearing problems though, most people get damage in the highs and upper mids.

I've seen a doctor loads of times, I've got some bone growth over my ear canals but its not that bad yet.

[Greg_L]

I listen on a bunch of different systems too, monitors, reference cans, my "nice" Sony headphones etc. Lower mid-range is a pretty unusual place to get hearing problems though, most people get damage in the highs and upper mids.

I've seen a doctor loads of times, I've got some bone growth over my ear canals but its not that bad yet.

It is strange, I agree. I certainly can't explain how or why you'd be deficient in low end hearing to the point that you'd have to overcompensate with your mixes. I'd say it's your room lying to you, but if you check on multiple other systems and still don't hear it it's gotta be your ears or just how you want your mixes to sound.

[JD01]

I listen on a bunch of different systems too, monitors, reference cans, my "nice" Sony headphones etc. Lower mid-range is a pretty unusual place to get hearing problems though, most people get damage in the highs and upper mids.

I've seen a doctor loads of times, I've got some bone growth over my ear canals but its not that bad yet.

It is strange, I agree. I certainly can't explain how or why you'd be deficient in low end hearing to the point that you'd have to overcompensate with your mixes. I'd say it's your room lying to you, but if you check on multiple other systems and still don't hear it it's gotta be your ears or just how you want your mixes to sound.

No, I want my punk mixes to sound like True North and my grungier more metal mixes to sound like In Utero. They're my two benchmark albums that I've listened to on all my systems many times over.

[Greg_L]

No, I want my punk mixes to sound like True North and my grungier more metal mixes to sound like In Utero. They're my two benchmark albums that I've listened to on all my systems many times over.

So would you say True North is the target for this Eddie Vedder thing?

[JD01]

No, I want my punk mixes to sound like True North and my grungier more metal mixes to sound like In Utero. They're my two benchmark albums that I've listened to on all my systems many times over.

So would you say True North is the target for this Eddie Vedder thing?

Yes, absolutely.

[JD01]

I've just wanged a load of olive oil in my ears to try and dissolve out some of the wax, silt and other crap that can get stuck behind the bone overgrowth.

I can hear stuff in there crunching when I clench my jaw/swallow and stuff

[Greg_L]

Yes, absolutely.

Okay so I'm listening to True North and going back and forth to your Mix 3. Let's go group by group...

For starters...we can hear Dr. Greg Graffin loud and clear. I'm not even a regular listener of this particular album but I can hear and make out every single lyric no problem. On the JD mix I pretty much can't make out any of the words. It sounds like mumbling. Be more like Greg Graffin. All dudes named Greg are cool.

Bass....yall's bass tones are sort of close. Jay Bentley has a tight and focused bass tone but it's not bright. It's a pretty standard rock bass sound. It's compressed and loud in the mix but not overpowering. It occupies only the space that it needs to. It's not super low endish, but not bright either. Good focused midrange bass tone. Your bass tone character seems similar overall but either through it's own sound or with interference from the kick it's kind of lost in this buildup of muck. There's a lot of boomy resonance in the bass guitar. I'm just not 100% that's where it's coming from. I think the kick is conspiring to fuck up your bass tone.

Guitars...not comparing tones, just levels and presence in the mix. BR's guitars on True North are meaty and present but not really all that loud. They're totally there but they're not beating us over the head. Very balanced with the bass. Nice wall of sound kind of thing going on. Your guitars sound fine but they're having to be elevated to stick out over the rest of the stuff. They kind of stick out in a good way, but also by necessity. They can't coexist with the drums and bass so it seems like they have to ride on top. There is a very stark separation between your guitars and the rest of the low end stuff.

Drums...here's where we separate the men from the boys. Listen how tight BR's drum sound is. The beauty of BR's drums is they actually sound quite natural. And they're played amazingly, but that's not important since you're programming drums. There's not a shit ton of tricks done to them...or at least it doesn't sound like it. The kick is pretty flat. It's not excessively bassy or clicky. It's not super loud in the mix either. It's just doing normal bass drum things. That sounds like a normal kick drum. The snare is tight and snappy, seems like a nice balance of top and bottom heads, and not having to be too cracky or have any enhanced body. The toms have tone. There's no excessive room or boom going on with BR's drums. There's no hyped lows in the kick and toms and the top end is very smooth. The cymbals aren't crazy loud but you can hear all of the overhead presence. JD's drums are not like that. The kick is very boomy and basketbally. The snare lacks crack and definition. There's a wash of room across the drum submix. The overheads are little splashes that pop out here and there. If you want to sound like Bad Religion, I really believe you need some different samples, or you need to rethink how you're working with your drums. The drums are the biggest part of a "rock" mix. Get the drums right and the rest is gravy.

So there ya go. That's how I hear it. Not that I'm anything special but these kinds of mixes are sort of my thing and all I do.

[vomitHatSteve]

I've just wanged a load of olive oil in my ears to try and dissolve out some of the wax, silt and other crap that can get stuck behind the bone overgrowth.

I can hear stuff in there crunching when I clench my jaw/swallow and stuff

That is super-gross. Yep, sounds like you need to keep your ears clean!

[JD01]

OK, I've olive oiled my ears, had another shower and revisited the drum EQ, vocal EQ and overall mix EQ.
There's a lot removed around 400hz from pretty much everything.

To me its just sounding clearer, but not actually by that much. Think the kick might be a touch too loud now, but I can just turn that down later.
I don't want to go mental making too many changes to this mix 'cos I'm not sure I'm hearing things right.

Actually, I did just do another version of mix 4 with the kick down a tiny bit and I had this really wide EQ boost in the bass at 1K by a few db which I've removed and just left upper mids of the bass alone now.

[Armistice]

Late to this, sorry - I'd have to say that I find the actual EV version of the song a bit tortuous and prefer it punked up. Vedder is good at Pearl Jamming but I find him a bit heavy and ponderous for acousticky stuff. Way too much warbly vibrato for my tastes.

So I'm in at Mix 4 and I went back to #3 to check and I think the vocal is much clearer - we have a similar vocal range and I'm forever cutting bass and low mids out of everything to try to get vocals to sit properly - and this includes the voice - sounds like you have the same issue.

I really like the sound of all the guitars and the harmonies are nice. I'm only downstairs on the laptop but I'll take it upstairs to the studio later and see if anything else jumps out.