Do I need a Klon Klone?

[Greg_L]

I mean, this definitely does apply to me!
I've got an A board that is the pedals I use to shape my tone and the recurring effects I use a lot (synth bass, big muff, delay)
But the B board? That is just goofy-ass sounds! Circuit bent chorus? Pitch shifter? Death Metal Pedal? Anything with a biohazard sticker on it? Yes! Put them on my goof-ass board!

But you intentionally try to sound insane so rampant pedal abuse is part of your thing.

[Armistice]

When you join a pedal based Facebook group you see the full level of it. Thousands of guys constantly buying and selling expensive pedals in a constant quest for "their" sound, which may or may not have anything to do with playing actual music. That's what they like doing.

[vomitHatSteve]

I mean, this definitely does apply to me!
I've got an A board that is the pedals I use to shape my tone and the recurring effects I use a lot (synth bass, big muff, delay)
But the B board? That is just goofy-ass sounds! Circuit bent chorus? Pitch shifter? Death Metal Pedal? Anything with a biohazard sticker on it? Yes! Put them on my goof-ass board!

But you intentionally try to sound insane so rampant pedal abuse is part of your thing.

Just 'cause I do it on purpose doesn't mean I know what I'm doing!

[liv_rong]

When you join a pedal based Facebook group you see the full level of it. Thousands of guys constantly buying and selling expensive pedals in a constant quest for "their" sound, which may or may not have anything to do with playing actual music. That's what they like doing.

Yeah, totally.

I’ve been through so many pedals and I basically always sound the same. But there is something to it. If it inspires you than I’m all for it. But there is a lot of snake oil and as Greg said “crack” to it as well I’ve been down that path, hell I still may be!!

It’s like any other price if gear, people latch on to certain things. I think with pedals it’s more accessible though because it’s cheaper and easier to try new stuff than a guitar or amp. And nowadays most of the higher value pedals hold their value very well.

What’s crazy is that a $200-300 pedal just is normal now. Like 7-8 years ago I thought $100 for a pedal was a lot, now once it breaks $300 do I start thinking it’s expensive.

I’m part of the problem!!

[Lt. Bob]

I think a lot of people have no fucking clue what they're doing with their pedals.

yeppers .............. except extend that to their guitars and amps and fingers too.

It's astounding to me that I see so many clueless musicians when it comes to using their gear

[Armistice]

I've never really gotten into pedal boards - but it just seems to me if you string too many devices together, "true bypass" or not, then it can't be good for the core toan...

I'm sure someone's worked out how to make only the pedal you're actually using at the time be in the active circuit by now - that would probably solve a lot of issues, but that device that someone posted earlier somewhere - was it @Lt. Bob ? - that has all the time based effects seems like a reasonable solution, providing you can find "your" sound in amongst all the options. Really, these things are getting so good these days anyway, if you can't find "your" sound in there, it's probably not the pedal's fault...

If I'm recording a pedal, as I do, only the actual pedal involved is in the circuit.

I can do some really cool things with the Strymon Big Sky reverb, but do I need to also add the Strymon timeline for a delay into the chain as well, when the Kemper has a zillion delays in it already? It would want to be a pretty unique noise.

Most of this stuff is lost on most listeners anyway - it's just guitarists who obsess about it.

[Lt. Bob]

I'm sure someone's worked out how to make only the pedal you're actually using at the time be in the active circuit by now - that would probably solve a lot of issues, b

sure .... a pedal loop switcher .... there's lots of them

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... ce6f94d449

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... a6109bb25d

But for me they take up room although some are pretty small.
Personally I've never really had a problem just running a buncha pedals in front of an amp so I'm good.

[Lt. Bob]

I mean, this definitely does apply to me!
I've got an A board that is the pedals I use to shape my tone and the recurring effects I use a lot (synth bass, big muff, delay)
But the B board? That is just goofy-ass sounds! Circuit bent chorus? Pitch shifter? Death Metal Pedal? Anything with a biohazard sticker on it? Yes! Put them on my goof-ass board!

But you intentionally try to sound insane so rampant pedal abuse is part of your thing.

yeah @vomitHatSteve ..... that's your intent and I'm betting you know how to do it so you don't qualify for greg's and my disdain .... try harder!

[WhiskeyJack]

I've never really gotten into pedal boards - but it just seems to me if you string too many devices together, "true bypass" or not, then it can't be good for the core toan...

That might be a fun experiment for someone like @liv_rong or @Bill L to try for us?

Set a nice clean tone plugged only directly from your guitar into the amp, record / capture the sound.

then plug their guitar into the front of their board and disable all the effects so everything is in "bypass" and change nothing on the amp or mic placements and capture that and see what happens to the signal.

My guess is is it will be minimally different but not terribly.

[JD01]

Most of this stuff is lost on most listeners anyway - it's just guitarists who obsess about it.

While that's true - its still important. Finding the sound you want and working hard on it is what inspires you to write different songs. Also, you'll play better if you've got a sound that you like.

[Lt. Bob]

you'll play better if you've got a sound that you like.

yep ..... if you're scratching your head and trying to find a way to 'fix' you sound, it takes away from being able to play or enjoying playing

[Greg_L]

That might be a fun experiment for someone like @liv_rong or @Bill L to try for us?

Set a nice clean tone plugged only directly from your guitar into the amp, record / capture the sound.

then plug their guitar into the front of their board and disable all the effects so everything is in "bypass" and change nothing on the amp or mic placements and capture that and see what happens to the signal.

My guess is is it will be minimally different but not terribly.

You'd need to know which pedals are actually "true bypass" and which are buffered.

In reality true bypass is great if you're using very short cable runs. Like maybe in a recording situation where you're using only one pedal and everything is close together and you can use short cables. But who actually does? You got a guitar cable, pedal patch cables, then a cable run to the actual amp. That adds up. And the length of cable is capacitance and that shelves off high end. The longer the run, the worse it is. It's noticeable. That's why buffered pedals are usually better, or at least good to have one in the chain somewhere. And many buffered pedals still buffer even when they're not on. Buffering is a good thing if you're using long cable runs. IMO whatever perceived or imagined sound buffering adds to the signal (which is actually none) by far makes up for the loss of signal with long ass cable runs and cork sniffy true bypass pedals. And of course some people like the lossy sound of long cables. Those coily telephone cord cables that people use are very lossy and actually very long. Lots of top end loss in those things.

There's a lot of fucking nonsense in the pedal world, and people obsessing over "true bypass" might be some of the worst of it.

[liv_rong]

That might be a fun experiment for someone like @liv_rong or @Bill L to try for us?

Set a nice clean tone plugged only directly from your guitar into the amp, record / capture the sound.

then plug their guitar into the front of their board and disable all the effects so everything is in "bypass" and change nothing on the amp or mic placements and capture that and see what happens to the signal.

My guess is is it will be minimally different but not terribly.

You'd need to know which pedals are actually "true bypass" and which are buffered.

In reality true bypass is great if you're using very short cable runs. Like maybe in a recording situation where you're using only one pedal and everything is close together and you can use short cables. But who actually does? You got a guitar cable, pedal patch cables, then a cable run to the actual amp. That adds up. And the length of cable is capacitance and that shelves off high end. The longer the run, the worse it is. It's noticeable. That's why buffered pedals are usually better, or at least good to have one in the chain somewhere. And many buffered pedals still buffer even when they're not on. Buffering is a good thing if you're using long cable runs. IMO whatever perceived or imagined sound buffering adds to the signal (which is actually none) by far makes up for the loss of signal with long ass cable runs and cork sniffy true bypass pedals. And of course some people like the lossy sound of long cables. Those coily telephone cord cables that people use are very lossy and actually very long. Lots of top end loss in those things.

There's a lot of fucking nonsense in the pedal world, and people obsessing over "true bypass" might be some of the worst of it.

I was going to mention that as well, though not as detailed as you.

In my setup I have a 15’ cable from the guitar to the board, then likely at least 3’ of cable in the board itself, another 15’ to the amp, then another 15’ for the amps send/return. So over 60’, wow! I’ve never added it up like that. Buffered though.

[Lt. Bob]

There's a lot of fucking nonsense in the world, and people obsessing over "insert favorite boogeyman" might be some of the worst of it.

There ..... we're covering a lot of ground here!

[Greg_L]

I was going to mention that as well, though not as detailed as you.

In my setup I have a 15’ cable from the guitar to the board, then likely at least 3’ of cable in the board itself, another 15’ to the amp, then another 15’ for the amps send/return. So over 60’, wow! I’ve never added it up like that. Buffered though.

Yes that is a lot of cable. I don't know the specifics of your amp but FX loop sends/returns are usually buffered.

Here at home I don't use a lot of cable, but my live set up is about 60ft of cable. I only use a tuner pedal, which is true bypass, but I keep a Boss SD-1 next to it for the buffer. I'm pretty sure all Boss pedals are buffered...or at least the most common ones are. I should just get a Boss tuner. Buffer and tuner all in one.

[WhiskeyJack]

That might be a fun experiment for someone like @liv_rong or @Bill L to try for us?

Set a nice clean tone plugged only directly from your guitar into the amp, record / capture the sound.

then plug their guitar into the front of their board and disable all the effects so everything is in "bypass" and change nothing on the amp or mic placements and capture that and see what happens to the signal.

My guess is is it will be minimally different but not terribly.

You'd need to know which pedals are actually "true bypass" and which are buffered.

In reality true bypass is great if you're using very short cable runs. Like maybe in a recording situation where you're using only one pedal and everything is close together and you can use short cables. But who actually does? You got a guitar cable, pedal patch cables, then a cable run to the actual amp. That adds up. And the length of cable is capacitance and that shelves off high end. The longer the run, the worse it is. It's noticeable. That's why buffered pedals are usually better, or at least good to have one in the chain somewhere. And many buffered pedals still buffer even when they're not on. Buffering is a good thing if you're using long cable runs. IMO whatever perceived or imagined sound buffering adds to the signal (which is actually none) by far makes up for the loss of signal with long ass cable runs and cork sniffy true bypass pedals. And of course some people like the lossy sound of long cables. Those coily telephone cord cables that people use are very lossy and actually very long. Lots of top end loss in those things.

There's a lot of fucking nonsense in the pedal world, and people obsessing over "true bypass" might be some of the worst of it.

Still would be cool to see the difference in the experiment outlined. I have no skin in this fight so I don't care really, just curious is all.

And now that i think about it. I feel like someone may have already done this. Maybe Minerman? if not here maybe over at HR.com. Possibly cable lengths and recording?

[vomitHatSteve]

But you intentionally try to sound insane so rampant pedal abuse is part of your thing.

yeah @vomitHatSteve ..... that's your intent and I'm betting you know how to do it so you don't qualify for greg's and my disdain .... try harder!

Curses! Foiled again!

[Greg_L]

Still would be cool to see the difference in the experiment outlined. I have no skin in this fight so I don't care really, just curious is all.

And now that i think about it. I feel like someone may have already done this. Maybe Minerman? if not here maybe over at HR.com. Possibly cable lengths and recording?

Ha maybe. Good ol Minerman was an avid tester of things like that.

I've been using my wireless live more lately and it's noticeable how much cleaner and clearer the signal is with no cable at all, and I'm not particularly crazy about it. Too bright. I like the little bit of capacitance high end roll off I get with a cable. I need to get one of those wireless units with the cable simulation.

I also notice when I use a lot of cable and no buffer. That's too much roll off for me. It's like a blanket over everything. I need to add more presence on the amp.

Now, for real though, all of this is subtle and no one would ever notice besides me.

[JD01]

I've got a fairly normal sized board, cable lengths and a reasonably priced combination of bypass and buffered pedals.

I'll record something this weekend straight into the front of the amp and through my board, see if there's a difference.

[Tadpui]

Yesterday I was recording some guitar for my pre-1960 project and I decided to click on the Tumnus for a few takes. I remember thinking "hmmm...that's more subtle than I remember". After I finished recording, I remembered that I was plugged straight into my amp and not into my pedal chain