Friends, Roman, countrymen, lend me your ears...

[Armistice]

Hi

This is an oldie, but as I'm listening this morning on my phone I remember that every time I listen to this on my phone I hear this low build up in the chorus which isn't so apparent on other devices. So wondering if it's just my phone, or if there's something I should fix here.

It's where all the voices come in, in particular - seems to blow out my headphones a bit.

Open to general criticism as well if you have any. Ray will have heard this but I think I put in in the clinic when most of you weren't there, or weren't listening to my stuff because you were afraid of acoustic guitars - but there aren't any in this tune.

Goodbye Mr Pills

Can't verify this link because *lockeddownworkcomputer* but I think it should work

Cheers chaps and chapettes.

[Bubba]

There's definitely a low mid buildup, Armi. One thing that sticks out to me is that there is an imbalance between the EQ of the guitars and the EQ of the drums. The drums are very, very crisp and all the guitars are quite dull-sounding. Something needs to bridge the gap. A slight upping of the presence on the guitars might do it, then drop them back a tiny bit.

[rayc]

I remember this - I enjoyed it then & now. I don't hear dull guitars but the drums def. are crisp (nice description Bob).

[Bubba]

I remember this - I enjoyed it then & now. I don't hear dull guitars but the drums def. are crisp (nice description Bob).

Well, I meant dull-sounding by comparison with the drums. That's the whole thing with this mixing business - getting the balance right. Making a satisfying whole The guitars need sharpening up slightly so that they make a good bridge, some intermediate frequencies to help them link up with the drums and to prevent the vocals from seeming to be a bit separate from everything else..

[Roman]

Are you saying you want me to listen? I'm honored, so I will......later.

[Roman]

Personally I like it. I enjoyed the "crisper" drums.
Nothing about this song jumped out at me. I just enjoyed listening to it snd was intrigued by the story being told.

Then again, I listened through some apple earbuds...not exactly considered "reference monitors"

[ocnor]

The guitars don't sound dull at all. The problem that I hear is with the effects on the backing vocals causing a mid build up. The lead vocal also has some piercing frequencies in the upper range [5K maybe?]

[Roman]

To me the chorus with all the extra vocals sounds not so much as a "low mid build up", but more of a "fullness". That section has more of everything including volume.
I suppose you could fix it with some eq and automation, but it sounds fine to me.

This is a very dynamic mix and I think a lot of us just aren't used to hearing that.

All good with me.

[rayc]

Bubba,
I know what you were getting at - my ears aren't very good, (tinnitus), so I don't expect to hear what others do.
I didn't notice the 5k thing in the vocals, the mud build in the chorus, etc etc.
I figured you were writing comparatively because David does like bright guitars.

[Armistice]

I remember this - I enjoyed it then & now. I don't hear dull guitars but the drums def. are crisp (nice description Bob).

Well, I meant dull-sounding by comparison with the drums. That's the whole thing with this mixing business - getting the balance right. Making a satisfying whole The guitars need sharpening up slightly so that they make a good bridge, some intermediate frequencies to help them link up with the drums and to prevent the vocals from seeming to be a bit separate from everything else..

Yep, I get what you mean. I was listening to it this morning after we were chatting and I'd dug Stalking Horse out. I listened to SH, then, as I had a Goodbye Mr Pills sized left in the walk to work, listened to it as well, and I was hit by how bright the drums were in comparison. Cheers

[Armistice]

To me the chorus with all the extra vocals sounds not so much as a "low mid build up", but more of a "fullness". That section has more of everything including volume.
I suppose you could fix it with some eq and automation, but it sounds fine to me.

This is a very dynamic mix and I think a lot of us just aren't used to hearing that.

All good with me.

Thanks Roman.. I thought I'd put you in the title instead of the traditional Shakespearean quote, seeing we had an actual Roman in our midst...

[Armistice]

The guitars don't sound dull at all. The problem that I hear is with the effects on the backing vocals causing a mid build up. The lead vocal also has some piercing frequencies in the upper range [5K maybe?]

Cool - that's what I was thinking ocnor, I need to do some surgery on the backing vocals... and as I, like most people, hate listening to myself sing, I'm a little blind to frequency issues in my voice as I try not to listen to it...

[rayc]

A good mate in high school was named Roman. He's Australian born of Polish parents and Roman was the slightly Anglicised version of Romescue or something: Roman Zygmunt Pasikowski - then again they didn't throw the Ziggy in maybe it was as it should be.

[JD01]

Just listening to this now - its really sounds like Armistice! I'm not some sort of frequency expert but I can see what people are saying about the drums - to me, its just the snare really though - its a really high crack. If it could have a bit more thump to it, the whole thing would sound better.

I think loads of people hate their voice - your voice sounds great though.

[vomitHatSteve]

To me the chorus with all the extra vocals sounds not so much as a "low mid build up", but more of a "fullness". That section has more of everything including volume.
I suppose you could fix it with some eq and automation, but it sounds fine to me.

This is a very dynamic mix and I think a lot of us just aren't used to hearing that.

All good with me.

I think that's a pretty good summary of what's going on (it happens in the bridge too).
I don't think anyone's really used to hearing that much contrast in the fullness/sparseness of a mix tho. It's kinda weird. I wonder if the change between full and sparse is too abrupt? (Especially in the bridge) Usually, you want to build and decay between those states instead of just flipping it on and off again (especially, within the course of a single line like in the bridge)

[Greg_L]

I don't think there's any muck buildup. It just sounds like everything gets bigger to me. No problem there. You could automate the master fader to balance it out better, or drop those backing vox a bit, or dry it out with less reverbs, but I wouldn't worry about it if it were me.

[rayc]

Whatever the issue I think it sounds great as it is and would have been stoked to get a song this far along without step by step mix advice.

[Armistice]

Thanks all. I'm still tinkering a bit. I've always known I had some more work to do here, but hadn't got around to it yet. The problem I'm hearing becomes apparent in the chorus and it's only audible to me in headphones, and I think relates to the extra guitars that come in there rather than the vocals, which have been really high passed so don't have much lower end content.

I'll put it away for now and get onto the next tune, however, so I'll revisit it in the future. Shouldn't be too hard to tidy up.

Interesting comments about the dynamism bit. I don't really get that it goes "whoosh" that much, but then again I know what's going to happen so am ready for it. Always interesting to get other perspectives on your stuff for that very reason.

[Armistice]

So in the end I didn't feel like guitaring tonight and instead I went back to this and did a bit of EQing and volume automation, took some reverb off the kit generally and the hihats in particular and poked them back in a bit, thickened up the snare and a few sundry other touches.

I mention this not because I need you to listen to it again but because I updated the file in the link - I hate having old versions around - so just in case in the future someone finds it, listens and wonders what the hell I'm on about.

[Bubba]

Listening at work, this sounds pretty good to me, Armi. I'll give it a listen when I get home on proper gear, though.