Basses - Spot The Difference

[JD01]

I'm just interested cos I really loved thst JMJ bass when I got to play on it every night. I could genuinely just enjoy playing on it for no reason... I've never felt like that about bass.

[Lt. Bob]

It's just a bass. A short scale bass still sounds like a bass. It's a bass.

I don't have a short scale bass, but I do like them. They are easier to play. That's the appeal. Who cares what "actual bass players" play? Since when does anyone give a fuck what a bass player thinks?

well, since I am an actual bass player, I do

lol .... you kinda don't care what anyone thinks so it's not surprising you don't care what I think.
But the idea that "it's a bass" as if they all sound the same and any of them are about the same cause all they do is low notes is stupid.

You get great bass sounds ..... do you use a short scale?
Not that I've heard.

[CrowsofFritz]

Oi, don’t you be calling my Beatle bass stupid

It's only stupid because it's permanently linked with the Beatles. It's been typecast. It's The Fonz of basses. No matter what Henry Winkler does he's always The Fonz. That's the beatle bass.

Yeah, I agree with you. The more people realize it’s a good bass for what it is and can be used in music other than the Beatles the better.

[Greg_L]

well, since I am an actual bass player, I do

lol .... you kinda don't care what anyone thinks so it's not surprising you don't care what I think.
But the idea that "it's a bass" as if they all sound the same and any of them are about the same cause all they do is low notes is stupid.

You get great bass sounds ..... do you use a short scale?
Not that I've heard.

It's not that I don't care what you think. But in this rare case I know better. I do not have a short scale. And if I did I'd still get great bass sounds because I know how to play bass and have ears that work. I've played enough though to know that they're fun and easy to play and sound like basses.

I say "it's a bass" because it is a bass. A short scale bass is still a bass and it sounds like a bass. It's not because all it does is low notes. It is because it's a bass and sounds like a bass. Bass tone varies as wildly as guitar tones do. If someone has a bad bass tone it's not because their scale is too short. I'm sure you've heard bass tones you don't like from standard long scale basses.

[Greg_L]

Yeah, I agree with you. The more people realize it’s a good bass for what it is and can be used in music other than the Beatles the better.

I like the way they sound. I'd never play one though because of their association with the beatles. Same as I'd never play a PRS or pointy shred guitar because of their association with douchebags.

[vomitHatSteve]

well, since I am an actual bass player, I do

lol .... you kinda don't care what anyone thinks so it's not surprising you don't care what I think.
But the idea that "it's a bass" as if they all sound the same and any of them are about the same cause all they do is low notes is stupid.

You get great bass sounds ..... do you use a short scale?
Not that I've heard.

It's not that I don't care what you think. But in this rare case I know better. I do not have a short scale. And if I did I'd still get great bass sounds because I know how to play bass and have ears that work. I've played enough though to know that they're fun and easy to play and sound like basses.

I say "it's a bass" because it is a bass. A short scale bass is still a bass and it sounds like a bass. It's not because all it does is low notes. It is because it's a bass and sounds like a bass. Bass tone varies as wildly as guitar tones do. If someone has a bad bass tone it's not because their scale is too short. I'm sure you've heard bass tones you don't like from standard long scale basses.

Between hands, instrument, and signal chain; how would you weight where tone comes from?

Personally, I love my shortscales, but I more-or-less use them as bari-guitars. The "pointy guitars" comment from earlier does resonate with me; my optimal tone from a shortscale is similar to what a pointy-guitarist is gonna get out of his 8 string

[Greg_L]

Between hands, instrument, and signal chain; how would you weight where tone comes from?

Well to me it all matters. All of it. Yes, the old cliché "tone comes from your hands" is true, but the guitar and amp/cab/speakers matters a whole bunch too. You could be the heaviest dude of all time, but you're not sounding right playing Slayer covers with a Tele through a Fender Champ and it's tiny 8" speaker. Even great players need to use appropriate equipment for the styles they're playing.

A pretty significant aspect of tone is indeed in the hands though. I've had countless scenarios where I'd try out someone else's gear and it sounds nothing like how they sound themselves. That's just how I play being different from how they play and it makes things sound very different.

[CrowsofFritz]

Between hands, instrument, and signal chain; how would you weight where tone comes from?

Yes, the old cliché "tone comes from your hands" is true, but the guitar and amp/cab/speakers matters a whole bunch too.

This. I think the “tone from the hands” is overstated. Yes, it’s true, but gear matters a TON. I can sound like a lot like McCartney with the gear I have and playing a similar bass line. In fact, multiple people said the bass on my latest song sounds VERY Beatle-esque on Reddit. I put a lot of that on my gear, but yes, some of that also comes from the bass line itself, and the only thing that would sound more like him is if he played it himself.

[JD01]

Personally, I love my shortscales, but I more-or-less use them as bari-guitars.

haha, Steve. You're hardly typical though - your description of how you use something is a long way from what most people would do.

[Armistice]

I've only ever had one bass and I know almost nothing about basses... it's a Schecter and it's black and it cost me quite a bit back in the day as I recall, but I was probably an easy sell. I think it's a Precision or Jazz knock off... which shows you how much I don't know about basses. Never played a short scale.

I kind of like that I have to really stretch and that I find it physically hard to play bass. Good exercise.

Never been a fan of overly trebly bass sounds - I like to keep it in the background - so I guess I wouldn't take to short scales anyway.

My least favourite bass player is Yes' Chris Squires... I once got severely abused on a Facebook group when I described Squires' sound as farty... I'm sure he was brilliant though.

[JD01]

I really hate the bass sound in Rush.

[Farview]

I think the "tone is in the hands" is overstated too. I agree that your hands make you sound like you, I'm just not sure it's much of an actual tone difference.

[Farview]

I think the "tone is in the hands" is overstated too. I agree that your hands make you sound like you, I'm just not sure it's much of an actual tone difference.

[Greg_L]

It all matters. All of it. We know this. Your hands, your guitar, your pickups, your amp, your cab, your speakers, mics, preamps, all of it. How much one thing matters over another depends on the status of each link in the chain and your own particular needs and wants.

It does obviously all start with your hands though, right? A complete n00b will sound sound like shit on professional gear because they can't play. And a professional player could make mediocre gear sound good because they know how to play. That's all "in the hands".

[JD01]

If you had a machine do the picking then all in the hands would be bollocks... but we're not machines and we do have hands.
I'm sure that a big part of my sound is cos I pick really aggressively with very thick pics... I know I get a lot of clacking when I play bass for this reason, but I don't mind.

@Bubba has actually played through my rig - he sounded like @Bubba but then I have my amp set up to be fairly Marshally, it just doesn't sound that marshally when I play it.

[vomitHatSteve]

Personally, I love my shortscales, but I more-or-less use them as bari-guitars.

haha, Steve. You're hardly typical though - your description of how you use something is a long way from what most people would do.

Lol true!

Greg, I was asking about how much weight you give to each of those sections of the chain (I was hoping for something like a percent split), I suppose "How much one thing matters over another depends on the status of each link in the chain and your own particular needs and wants." means it really depends tho, huh?
The way you describe things, it seems like for most of your application, the actual instrument isn't the most important part of the tone?

Poor Geddy Lee getting his tone disparaged like this!
(That said, when we were discussing bass sansamps a month back, I definitely did not get his signature one)

[Greg_L]

Lol true!

Greg, I was asking about how much weight you give to each of those sections of the chain (I was hoping for something like a percent split), I suppose "How much one thing matters over another depends on the status of each link in the chain and your own particular needs and wants." means it really depends tho, huh?

Yeah, it just depends. Boring answer but that's the answer. These things kind of go in an order. Like, if your guitar is a clumsy piece of shit with a bad setup that won't stay in tune, then rolling preamp tubes doesn't really mean jack shit. Tubes don't matter if the stuff before them is a mess. The bits and pieces in a signal chain are all related and none of them do anything in isolation. You need a guitar to feed an amp. You need an amp to amplify a guitar. You need speakers to turn that electrical signal into air moving sound. They all need each other. How much importance one piece has over another is dependent on whichever piece is the weak link in the chain. The weakest link is the most important. You don't fix the stuff that works, you fix the stuff that doesn't.

The way you describe things, it seems like for most of your application, the actual instrument isn't the most important part of the tone?

For me, I would say the actual instrument doesn't matter that much, as in I don't care about wood or fretboard material, etc. I play the guitars that I play because I like the way they feel and look, and to some extent the construction affects the sound. I love Les Pauls because they're solid and heavy and feel good in my hands, and that solid heavy construction does give them a certain tonal quality that you don't get with some other guitars. And to me they look fantastic. I'm sure I could get adequate, maybe even great tones with some pointy Jackson hair metal piece of shit, but I hate those guitars. Besides looking stupid and representing genres and styles that I loathe, they simply don't feel good to play. I'm not the kind of guitar player that benefits from the the features of those guitars. I don't like flat plank fence picket necks with massive frets. So as far as the actual instrument goes they only matter to me as to how they feel to play and look. If it feels good and looks good I'll wanna play it and I'll play it well...as well as I can.

After that, I do deeply care about things that actually make sound. Pickups really matter. Amps really matter. Cabs and speakers really matter. I'll obsess over those things that truly shape the tone. I'm very particular about my pickups and amps and stuff because for my playing style I believe that those things help or hurt my sound the most.

[vomitHatSteve]

I love Les Pauls because they're solid and heavy and feel good in my hands, and that solid heavy construction does give them a certain tonal quality that you don't get with some other guitars.

Honestly, solid and heavy is one of those things I view as incredibly important in my basses too. For a bass bass, I want a hefty, unmaneuverable chunk of wood.

I don't think I've ever encountered a shortscale with that. They tend to go for light. (Which makes sense since one of the selling points is usually "it's easier to play, especially if you're young or a guitarist")

[Greg_L]

Honestly, solid and heavy is one of those things I view as incredibly important in my basses too. For a bass bass, I want a hefty, unmaneuverable chunk of wood.

And that has something to do with the tone potential of the instrument itself. To my ears, electric guitars, or basses, that resonate acoustically very loudly are not necessarily the best sounding electric guitars when amplified. When the guitar itself resonates it's taking energy away from the vibrating string - which is where we actually need it on an electric guitar. Amps don't amplify wood or vibrations, they amplify the current induced in the pickup via the string vibrating right above the pickup's coils. That's what we hear through an amp. A guitar body and/or construction that resists the string's vibration and keeps that vibration energy in the string is usually a fuller, more harmonically rich, better sounding electric guitar....like a Les Paul.

And that's not even really getting into "tonewoods". To me it's more about construction. Les Pauls and SGs are basically made out of the same exact wood, yet they sound very different. And SGs are acoustically much louder and more resonant than Les Pauls. But when plugged in to an amp the Les Paul sounds much fuller and more balanced than an SG because of how they're built. Neither is better or worse, they're both awesome, but they are definitely different. And the same goes with Teles and Strats...except they both suck.

[Armistice]

I really hate the bass sound in Rush.

Oh yeah, him too.