Johan's latest video on fizzy distortion (and how to get rid of it) got me thinking...

New Guitar Day? Obsessed with tone? 10 on the volume dial not enough? Celestion vs. Electrovoice? Cum in, feel the noize.
Post Reply
User avatar
SweetDan
Posts: 895
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:09 pm
Location: Colorado, USA

Johan's latest video on fizzy distortion (and how to get rid of it) got me thinking...

Post by SweetDan »

Before I begin, the video:




He starts with the basic explanation - that fizziness in distortion comes from the harmonics @ 4-4.5k or higher - and goes through several demonstrations of fizzy and non-fizzy tones. On the demos where he eliminated or reduced the fizziness, he was quite clear in explaining the various techniques for managing the tone better. The techniques involve mic placement, speaker selection, turning up loud to get more of the power-amp section or speaker distortion and reducing reliance on pre-amp distortion, careful EQ sculpting after recording, and all the way to amp modifications.

---

Two things struck me:

First, the discussion of pre-amp vs. power-amp and speaker distortion really rang a bell for me. He discussed that the 4-4.5k+ harmonics still may have peaks and valleys, and that the sections after the pre-amp may have different patterns of peaks/valleys, so if you get both pre- and power-amp (and speaker) distortion, you'll get a more full sound overall. I'd never thought of it like that before. I'd say that idea carries over into pedals too; often an overdrive into a distortion pedal sounds better than either of them separately, same with a distortion into a fuzz.

Second, the demos where he started with a very fizzy tone but then tamed it with EQ in the DAW were enlightening. This was not so much because the video was very detailed in going over the EQ settings or anything (it wasn't!), but more that I could hear a nominally "good" tone and see at the same time the drastic type of EQ it may take to achieve that tone. All of which, of course, leads back to the idea that such drastic processing is not as good as getting it right at the source!

(I.e., if I make better sounds, I'll make better recordings. A related idea is that my mixing, if it is getting better at all, the improvement isn't so much in whatever particular plugins I use and how I use them, but more fundamentally that I've gotten better at listening and hearing the quality of the sounds and am getting better at judging whether those sounds are "good" or "not good", and making needed adjustments only after getting that understanding. But I digress....)

---

Anyway, it was quite educational for me :) and I thought I'd share. It almost made me wish there were a thread parallel to The Tone Thread, but rather than being examples of toanz we produce ourselves and submit for critique, it would be a sticky thread where we could share especially useful videos or articles on the topic of guitar tones which are published outside our little corner of the internet. Maybe instead of critiquing the tones, we vote on whether or not the video/article in question is worthy of being a reference. And maybe call it "Johan's Gems" or something?
awesome youtube comment of the day
Lol it's still less satanic than whatever rituals Katie Perry and Taylor Swift do in their performances. 😂
User avatar
rayc
Posts: 8486
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:31 pm
Location: South of Bundaberg North of Brisbane

Re: Johan's latest video on fizzy distortion (and how to get rid of it) got me thinking...

Post by rayc »

Interesting, I had some rubbish tones recently and it was, I'm advised, partially becasue the amp wasn't loud enough...I was relying on the preamp too heavily.
Cheers
rayc
User avatar
Greg_L
Posts: 20668
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:07 pm
Location: Where the knuckle meets the poophole

Re: Johan's latest video on fizzy distortion (and how to get rid of it) got me thinking...

Post by Greg_L »

I agree with almost all of what he's saying. He is right on pretty much all of it. I don't like his heavy reliance on room mics and drastic EQing, but whatever. Louder is better. Always. You don't have to literally crank every amp, but they usually need to be uncomfortably loud to sound their best. Preamp distortion is fine. You have to be able to move some air though.

He touched on speakers, and they're important. But he should have spent more time on mic placement, and especially dual mics. You need to be able to record good tone with one mic. And when you master that, adding a second mic can pay huge tone dividends. The natural phase cancellation from two mics kills all of the crap we don't want.
Rebel Yell
User avatar
vomitHatSteve
Posts: 6502
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:06 am
Location: Undisclosed
Contact:

Re: Johan's latest video on fizzy distortion (and how to get rid of it) got me thinking...

Post by vomitHatSteve »

Greg_L wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:56 am I don't like his heavy reliance on room mics
I was wondering about that with a lot of his tone demos in this vid. You can hear a remarkable amount of room
User avatar
Greg_L
Posts: 20668
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:07 pm
Location: Where the knuckle meets the poophole

Re: Johan's latest video on fizzy distortion (and how to get rid of it) got me thinking...

Post by Greg_L »

vomitHatSteve wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:21 pm

I was wondering about that with a lot of his tone demos in this vid. You can hear a remarkable amount of room
its like that in all of his videos. for years and years he has managed to make a bunch of bad ass amps all sound pretty much the same, and its because of his insistence on lots of room miking.
Rebel Yell
User avatar
JD01
Posts: 15855
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:11 pm
Location: Wales, UK

Re: Johan's latest video on fizzy distortion (and how to get rid of it) got me thinking...

Post by JD01 »

To be fair to Johan I think he's one of the few youtube people that really does know how to get good tone out of real amps.... he also hasn't started lifestyle vlogging.

I struggled with two mics. That was with my blackstar and before I got my Audix i5 though I think.
User avatar
SweetDan
Posts: 895
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:09 pm
Location: Colorado, USA

Re: Johan's latest video on fizzy distortion (and how to get rid of it) got me thinking...

Post by SweetDan »

Greg_L wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:56 am ...heavy reliance on ... drastic EQing...
Does he always use such drastic EQ? I've watched maybe a few dozen of his videos, and this was the first I've seen where he brought in EQ at all. I think he was doing it here just to make a point.

You're right that in this video he didn't spend any time on mic placement either, simply alluded to it.

Again, for me, the enlightening bit was coming to an understanding of why "louder = better". Sure, I'd heard that advice lots, but I didn't get "why". (Loud enough you don't get any pick/string noise, I got that. But any more volume is wasted, right? Wrong...but I didn't know.) Realizing that the power-amp/speaker distortion is different and fills in the holes in the peaks/valleys of the pre-amp distortion turns out to be the why.

This idea of filling in the harmonic spectrum with different types of distortion is also relevant for using pedals. It would certainly be relevant for choosing which of several pedals to use, or for the DIY-pedal crowd, how to design or modify circuits to get the desired results.
awesome youtube comment of the day
Lol it's still less satanic than whatever rituals Katie Perry and Taylor Swift do in their performances. 😂
User avatar
JD01
Posts: 15855
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:11 pm
Location: Wales, UK

Re: Johan's latest video on fizzy distortion (and how to get rid of it) got me thinking...

Post by JD01 »

SweetDan wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:39 am This idea of filling in the harmonic spectrum with different types of distortion is also relevant for using pedals. It would certainly be relevant for choosing which of several pedals to use, or for the DIY-pedal crowd, how to design or modify circuits to get the desired results.
Its the same reason you might use two mics and mix them together as they'll both be generating a slightly different EQ curve so you'll get less peaks.
Also, things like using two different guitars using different tones in a mix when you're double tracking, all helps round out the sound.
User avatar
Greg_L
Posts: 20668
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:07 pm
Location: Where the knuckle meets the poophole

Re: Johan's latest video on fizzy distortion (and how to get rid of it) got me thinking...

Post by Greg_L »

SweetDan wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:39 am
Does he always use such drastic EQ? I've watched maybe a few dozen of his videos, and this was the first I've seen where he brought in EQ at all. I think he was doing it here just to make a point.
I'm not sure how much eq he uses or how often. I do know to me his tones are never that great. I've always thought his video sound is sort of fizzy, which is funny that he finally addresses it. But hes a likeable guy and always get to play with smokin awesome amps so I don't care.

Again, for me, the enlightening bit was coming to an understanding of why "louder = better". Sure, I'd heard that advice lots, but I didn't get "why". (Loud enough you don't get any pick/string noise, I got that. But any more volume is wasted, right? Wrong...but I didn't know.) Realizing that the power-amp/speaker distortion is different and fills in the holes in the peaks/valleys of the pre-amp distortion turns out to be the why.

This idea of filling in the harmonic spectrum with different types of distortion is also relevant for using pedals. It would certainly be relevant for choosing which of several pedals to use, or for the DIY-pedal crowd, how to design or modify circuits to get the desired results.
"Louder is better" for sure....to a point. Not all amps need to be or are designed to be cranked. An amp like a Marshall Superlead or Fender Bassman or Orange OR100 needs to be very loud. Those types of amps operate as a sum of their parts. They don't even have much preamp distortion. If you scope the audio signal in a Marshall Plexi you'd see that it's still fairly tame before it enters the power amp section. It's very amplified, but it's not very distorted. Then that hot but still pretty clean signal hits the phase inverter which adds a chunk more gain, and then on to the power tubes which add a shit ton of gain, and there you have it. Those amps have to work as a complete unit. These are also the types of amps that commonly do not have "master volumes". So for a complete, full sound, they need to be fully working. Any attempt to significantly turn them down usually results in some kind of tone degradation. People have spent decades trying to tame these amps without hurting the sound. Enter the master volume...

An amp with a master volume usually is designed for more preamp distortion. These amps create the majority of their grit and grime in the preamp and the power section only amplifies what the preamp creates. Many of these amps have power stages designed to stay clean so they don't add much, if any, color to the sound. Since most of your guitar tone is created in the preamp of these amps, and the power section is only there to cleanly boost that preamp signal, these amps don't need to be super duper loud. And sometimes if you run them loud enough the power section distortion doesn't add anything pleasant anyway. With these types of amps you can often find a tipping point on the master volume where you can just start to hear and feel the power section really come alive. That's where you stop. Anything past that point is just more compression and often just mush. This tipping point is still usually pretty damn loud, but it's not full-crank break windows loud.

Sooooo, after all that rambling and not even getting into speakers and cabs and miking...the bottom line is if you're trying to get the best out of your amp, run your shit as loud as you can until the tone breaks down. Find that sweet spot. It will probably be louder than you are comfortable with - even with little amps. But this will have your amp, whatever it is, running as it's designed to run. Tube amps are like wild horses. They want to run free.
Rebel Yell
Post Reply