Water sucks

[Greg_L]

Swell or shrink... the important thing is that after your foundations are poured you don't want the soil to change volume 'cos that's where your problems start! We have a LOT of high plasticity/volume change potential clay all over the place here and we have really strict regulations about foundation depths and how close to trees you can get.

Everyone talks about root action with trees affecting foundations - in clay, soil desiccation and shrinking is a way bigger issue.

I don't know what our regulations are. Under normal circumstances the regular rain patterns and drainage are enough to keep our foundations stable. At the beginning of the 2010s we started a drought that lasted many years. We might technically still be in it, but I doubt it. This has been a very very wet year so far. My foundation was poured in 1996 and there were zero trees around here back then. It was wide open hot ass Texas land. Now it's a neighborhood with massive trees everywhere.

When I was a kid in New Orleans you couldn't even dig a hole without it filling with water. People are "buried" above ground over there.

[JD01]

How tall is your biggest oak and now close is it to the house? Also, how tall is your closest oak?

Do you know what the geology actually is?

[Greg_L]

How tall is your biggest oak and now close is it to the house? Also, how tall is your closest oak?

Do you know what the geology actually is?

I don't know what the geology is or how tall my trees are. They're at least as tall as the house and I'm in a two-story. There are two in my front yard and one is in the back. So...roughly 10-15 meters from my front and back doors is a mighty oak tree. And then there are two more at the front edge of my yard between the sidewalk and street. These get trimmed by the city because the canopies hang out over the street and big delivery trucks go by and get whacked by branches.

Here's an official perfectly drawn to scale overview of my property.

casa.jpg

[JD01]

How tall is your biggest oak and now close is it to the house? Also, how tall is your closest oak?

Do you know what the geology actually is?

I don't know what the geology is or how tall my trees are. They're at least as tall as the house and I'm in a two-story. There are two in my front yard and one is in the back. So...roughly 10-15 meters from my front and back doors is a mighty oak tree. And then there are two more at the front edge of my yard between the sidewalk and street. These get trimmed by the city because the canopies hang out over the street and big delivery trucks go by and get whacked by branches.

Here's an official perfectly drawn to scale overview of my property.
casa.jpg

haha, I don't think they had the UK guidance for building on clay soils in mind when they built your house.
An oak has a mature height of ~20m and is classed as high water demand, so it'll have a zone of influence of about 25m!

In accordance with UK guidance for clay soils if you are 15m from the tree and in a high volume change potential soil your foundations should be at 2.0m below ground level and you should have a void former! If you're only 10m from the tree your foundations should be at 2.5m.

15m away with a medium volume change potential clay you should have foundations at 1.75m including a void former and with a low volume change potential clay your foundation should be at 1.5m although you wouldn't need a void former.

I can't find an easily publicly available geological map of Katy. In the UK its all freely available - the USA maps tend to be produced by private companies who expect to be paid.

[JD01]

Actually, I've found a geotechnical report for nearby:

Katy Geology.JPG

Probably not supposed to be publicly available though.

[Greg_L]

haha, I don't think they had the UK guidance for building on clay soils in mind when they built your house.
An oak has a mature height of ~20m and is classed as high water demand, so it'll have a zone of influence of about 25m!

In accordance with UK guidance for clay soils if you are 15m from the tree and in a high volume change potential soil your foundations should be at 2.0m below ground level and you should have a void former! If you're only 10m from the tree your foundations should be at 2.5m.

15m away with a medium volume change potential clay you should have foundations at 1.75m including a void former and with a low volume change potential clay your foundation should be at 1.5m although you wouldn't need a void former.

I can't find an easily publicly available geological map of Katy. In the UK its all freely available - the USA maps tend to be produced by private companies who expect to be paid.

My trees weren't there when the foundation was poured, and they were just little noobs when we moved in. They had to be propped up with stakes. I even tried to remove the backyard tree at first. It fought me every step of the way so I just left it to die and figured I'd pull it once it was dead. It wouldn't die. It came back strong. Then a hard freeze around ten years ago split the entire trunk down the middle. I thought for sure that would be end of that tree. Still didn't die. It grew back together and came back even stronger. Then it got some kind of fungus infestation....still wouldn't die. Hurricanes, lightning storms, freezes, droughts, heat, blazing sun, diseases, floods, and one dumb human...nothing will stop that oak tree.

[JD01]

My trees weren't there when the foundation was poured, and they were just little noobs when we moved in.

Tough buggers Oak trees.
Yeah, as they get bigger they gradually start to suck up more water. Its likely that the soil in the area of your house is really desiccated!

[Greg_L]

Tough buggers Oak trees.
Yeah, as they get bigger they gradually start to suck up more water. Its likely that the soil in the area of your house is really desiccated!

Maybe. At one point it obviously was since my foundation moved a little. But since it got fixed we haven't had any issues and the ground is pretty soaked these days. Get back to me at the end of august.

[JD01]

Tough buggers Oak trees.
Yeah, as they get bigger they gradually start to suck up more water. Its likely that the soil in the area of your house is really desiccated!

Maybe. At one point it obviously was since my foundation moved a little. But since it got fixed we haven't had any issues and the ground is pretty soaked these days. Get back to me at the end of august.

Assuming the geology of Katy is pretty homogenous I'm not surprised that you had a foundation issue. Glad you've got it all sorted though... and haven't ended up like Tad!

Remedial solutions tend to be really over engineered so you'll probably be OK now.

[Tadpui]

We planted an oak sapling in the back yard last summer. It's a ways from the house so I'm not too worried. Plus here at higher altitude, most trees don't get nearly as big as they do at lower altitude where they've got all the oxygen they need to grow strong. I don't think I've ever seen a big, mighty oak here in Colorado. Aspens, spruces, and other pine trees can get big around here, but the maples, oaks, and ashes that I've seen have all been runts. I'm expecting the same for the oak we planted.

We definitely have clay soil though. I bought a soil probe a few weeks ago, and I've been taking core samples at random spots in the front yard to see how the grass roots are doing, and to learn about the soil. It's like modeling clay...I could make vases out of this stuff. I've been wanting to send some samples in to be tested at the county extension but I haven't gotten around to it yet. Our printer went haywire so I haven't been able to print out the form to send with it.

[Greg_L]

Assuming the geology of Katy is pretty homogenous I'm not surprised that you had a foundation issue. Glad you've got it all sorted though... and haven't ended up like Tad!

Remedial solutions tend to be really over engineered so you'll probably be OK now.

Tad's situation is what got me thinking about all this. Besides the flooding basement - we don't have basements - I was saying that water around the foundation isn't the end of the world for us. We kind of need it. Our kind of foundation problems are not from too much moisture, they're from too little moisture. And my geology or whatever is not just Katy...it's the whole gulf coast. Foundation problems happen everywhere in this region. It's something like 60% of the houses along the Texas coast will have some kind of foundation issue at some point. Louisiana might be even worse. They build houses up on stilts over there. Most of the houses in New Orleans are built up off the ground. I'm kind of right on the edge of where the Texas "coastal region" ends and the hilly more desert-like rocky part of Texas begins. Austin is about 100 miles away and it's landscape is wildly different. I don't suspect they have the foundation issues that the coast has.

[Greg_L]

We planted an oak sapling in the back yard last summer. It's a ways from the house so I'm not too worried. Plus here at higher altitude, most trees don't get nearly as big as they do at lower altitude where they've got all the oxygen they need to grow strong. I don't think I've ever seen a big, mighty oak here in Colorado. Aspens, spruces, and other pine trees can get big around here, but the maples, oaks, and ashes that I've seen have all been runts. I'm expecting the same for the oak we planted.

We definitely have clay soil though. I bought a soil probe a few weeks ago, and I've been taking core samples at random spots in the front yard to see how the grass roots are doing, and to learn about the soil. It's like modeling clay...I could make vases out of this stuff. I've been wanting to send some samples in to be tested at the county extension but I haven't gotten around to it yet. Our printer went haywire so I haven't been able to print out the form to send with it.

I'm always interested in the trees in far away exotic lands like Colorado or New York.

I've grown up around gigantic Oaks and Pines and Cypress and beautiful sweet smelling Magnolia trees. Lots of Pecan and citrus fruit trees. Deep South stuff. I've seen Oaks so big it takes ten people to wrap their arms around the trunk. Their roots spring up out of the ground like a whole 'nother separate tree. But I never get to see cold weather trees or trees that change colors. I don't think I've ever seen a Spruce or Fir that wasn't decorated with christmas lights in someone's living room.

I think my favorite Deep South tree is the Magnolia. Man those things smell good. My grandma had two or three big Magnolia trees and her house always smelled so sweet. She'd open her windows in the spring and the breeze would carry Magnolia scent through the house and it was just so good. I always stop and smell the Magnolias whenever I see one.

[JD01]

We planted an oak sapling in the back yard last summer. It's a ways from the house so I'm not too worried. Plus here at higher altitude, most trees don't get nearly as big as they do at lower altitude where they've got all the oxygen they need to grow strong. I don't think I've ever seen a big, mighty oak here in Colorado. Aspens, spruces, and other pine trees can get big around here, but the maples, oaks, and ashes that I've seen have all been runts. I'm expecting the same for the oak we planted.

We definitely have clay soil though. I bought a soil probe a few weeks ago, and I've been taking core samples at random spots in the front yard to see how the grass roots are doing, and to learn about the soil. It's like modeling clay...I could make vases out of this stuff. I've been wanting to send some samples in to be tested at the county extension but I haven't gotten around to it yet. Our printer went haywire so I haven't been able to print out the form to send with it.

You want an Atterberg limits test which you use to determine your volume change potential.

[WhiskeyJack]

Tad that freaking sucks!!!!

What a shit show. Do you think the headache of having your lot regraded and the area's around your house built up is of any value? Is there a possibility of that? I did a little bit of regrading around the back part of the house when i redid my deck and that made a fair bit of difference with the relative humidity of my basement. I didn't have the hoover dam rushing in like you but it was definitely way too wet in here humidity wise. All it took was one good load of clay and gravel. I built it up enough to give it a 2% slope down and away from the foundation over about 4 to 5 feet. Seemed to help.

The downspout has one of those cheap piece of crap corrugated accordion-style extenders on it.

These things are the bain of my existence. I find not only are they the most annoying god dam things when it comes to wind displacing them but they are also cheap as fuck and and it only takes a year or two of our dry heat and full on sun before they start to crack and break. I have replaced all of mine at least twice since living here (2014). The next time i replace them i am going to have a gutter / eavestrough guy just come put actual aluminum ones on that can fold up and down for mowing. I'm done with those stupid accordion style ones.

[WhiskeyJack]

How tall is your biggest oak and now close is it to the house? Also, how tall is your closest oak?

Do you know what the geology actually is?

I don't know what the geology is or how tall my trees are. They're at least as tall as the house and I'm in a two-story. There are two in my front yard and one is in the back. So...roughly 10-15 meters from my front and back doors is a mighty oak tree. And then there are two more at the front edge of my yard between the sidewalk and street. These get trimmed by the city because the canopies hang out over the street and big delivery trucks go by and get whacked by branches.

Here's an official perfectly drawn to scale overview of my property.
casa.jpg

Sick cadding skills. Come work with me.

[Greg_L]

Sick cadding skills. Come work with me.

You can't afford these skillz.

[Tadpui]

You want an Atterberg limits test which you use to determine your volume change potential.

It looks like all of the county extension's testing focuses on contents of the soil, from composition of materials to chemicals/nutrients. I certainly don't understand very many of their offerings, but I figured I'd at least get a basic test to make sure I'm not over- or under-fertilizing. Here's what they offer, you might be able to make better sense of it than I can: http://www.soiltestinglab.colostate.edu ... ovided.pdf

@WhiskeyJack yeah, I'll definitely be doing some regrading in the worst trouble spots. As much as I'm tempted to do it myself, I'm too old, fat, and out of shape to get much accomplished. I'll likely end up paying somebody with an excavator to come and make quick work of it.

New gutters are being installed right now, with flip-up aluminum extensions replacing the awful accordion extenders. The new gutters and downspouts are 6" wide, as opposed to the 3 or 4" ones that were there. Much higher capacity, more reliable direction of water away from the house, and leaf guards to help prevent clogging from debris of our awful locust tree in the back yard. Hopefully this will take care of most of our troubles. Regrading will be the icing on the cake, and will hopefully give me the confidence to eventually finish our basement and keep it dry.

[Tadpui]

This has turned into an expensive week as a homeowner. It started when Miguel and Alfredo installed a new sprinkler system in our front yard to replace the old leaky one that was driving me crazy (there's only so many holes I'm willing to dig in my yard to repair leaks...it turns out that number is 5. 5 leaks repaired in a single year. I'm done with that). When I mentioned that my wife and I were thinking about having a concrete patio, slab for a shed, and sidewalk poured, Miguel recommended his friend Ramon. Ramon came by the same day, gave us an estimate for the concrete work (great price, by the way), and mentioned that he also does tree trimming and removal. So we hired him to get rid of the 4 remaining monster juniper bushes in our back yard, which he completed yesterday. We mentioned our basement flooding issues and our old raggedy gutters, and he mentioned that his cousin Lalo works for a gutter company and does jobs independently on the side. So Lalo's crew is currently crawling all over the house putting in new gutters and downspouts.

So all in the course of a week we got a new sprinkler system, 4 huge shrubs and their stumps removed, new gutters and downspouts, and next week we'll have a new concrete patio, sidewalk, and a base for a shed. Unfortunately after all of this, it may be a decade before I can afford the damned shed

Supporting independent local businesses, all through word of mouth from the Latino community around us. Great bunch of guys. It's been a productive week, and the prices have been excellent! But even with the "side-job discounts", this has still been an extraordinarily expensive week!

[WhiskeyJack]

I think my favorite Deep South tree is the Magnolia. Man those things smell good. My grandma had two or three big Magnolia trees and her house always smelled so sweet. She'd open her windows in the spring and the breeze would carry Magnolia scent through the house and it was just so good. I always stop and smell the Magnolias whenever I see one.

We got a magnolia tree for our mom for mothers day one year and it really flourished in the climate of Nova Scotia. I tried to find a picture of it but it is on a hard drive somewhere not in my online drives. They do smell amazing. I was only ever around the homestead a few times when it was in bloom but it basically filled the whole yard and house with an indescribable smell. If i ever dig up the pic I'll send it along.

[Tadpui]

Yep, water still sucks.

The big one hit. An historic rainfall overwhelmed our poor drainage around the house in the last 48 hours. The waterfall window poured in again and it didn't stop. It's pretty bad.

No big loss of belongings, as far as I can tell so far. I bought a bunch of shelving last year, so most everything was elevated. And my studio gear is safe since not much of it rests directly on the floor.

The cosmic kick in the groin is that the landscapers that we hired to fix this problem got started the same day that the rain started. So there's currently an idle skid steer and mini excavator in our muddy mess of a back yard, and one layer of a retaining wall-to-be. They didn't have a chance to start on the real problem of the ground sloping into the foundation.

Freaking bummer. The studio is torn apart to keep things safe and dry. Hopefully I'll have it back together in a week. The wife and I decided to stop bailing water because it just keeps coming. It's a losing battle. So instead we're day drinking margaritas and watching Heat on Netflix.