Tom Resonance Over everything

[JD01]

OK, could do with some advice on how to deal with this.
I think the drums sound pretty cool, I've always been happy with the guitar and bass tone.
Stick them together and it sounds like mess. The toms seem to be washing over everything and the whole thing is just big and boomy!

I've been pretty happy with my new tom sound up to now, but this is the first beat I've got into that's built entirely off toms and muted guitars.
My previous EZ Drummer toms didn't sound anywhere near as nice as this, but they did sound tight and were quite heavily gated. Before I go down a rabbit hole of gating, reverb adjustment and gated reverb etc. can you give me any tips on how to make these bits play nicer together.
I've already put a small dip in the floor toms at 100hz - which made a small improvement.

Drums.mp3

Guitar And Bass.mp3

Rhythm Mix.mp3

[Greg_L]

First thing, you have the toms about 5000 db too loud relative to the rest of the kit. I love me some booming toms but not at the expense of everything else. I personally don't have a any problem whatsoever with the sound and sustain of those toms.

Second, that's what toms sound like. That's why they are what they are. For that sound.

First things I'd do if I was you is 1) drop the level of the toms overall and re-try the rough mix. And 2) maybe try different tom samples. You must have a million of them. If you want flat dead 70s toms I'm sure they're out there somewhere.

[JD01]

Cheers - I'll start by just trying to turn them down before I get into gating and shit.
I do like loud toms but I must have gone overboard here - this is my turned down version too!

[JD01]

OK, so I've lowered the toms across the board by 3.5db and I've gated the two floor toms.
I did go through all of the available tom samples and these are my favourites so I do want to stick with them.

Rhythm Mix lowered and gated toms.mp3

[Greg_L]

Cheers - I'll start by just trying to turn them down before I get into gating and shit.
I do like loud toms but I must have gone overboard here - this is my turned down version too!

It's a tough line to walk. I've done a lot of songs where the toms are a big part of the drum track and you want them to be heard loud and clear. But toms will, as you can see, smash the fuck out of everything.

When I know I'm doing a track with lots of toms I'll usually muffle them a bit more than usual just so they can be controlled a little easier.

[Greg_L]

OK, so I've lowered the toms across the board by 3.5db and I've gated the two floor toms.
I did go through all of the available tom samples and these are my favourites so I do want to stick with them.

Rhythm Mix lowered and gated toms.mp3

Good. I think you could still drop them a little bit more and they'll still be there.

[JD01]

Cheers - I'll start by just trying to turn them down before I get into gating and shit.
I do like loud toms but I must have gone overboard here - this is my turned down version too!

It's a tough line to walk. I've done a lot of songs where the toms are a big part of the drum track and you want them to be heard loud and clear. But toms will, as you can see, smash the fuck out of everything.

When I know I'm doing a track with lots of toms I'll usually muffle them a bit more than usual just so they can be controlled a little easier.

Yeah - in my other recent tracks and Superior Drummer re-mixes I've had the toms at the level they were in the initial rhythm mix above... but then they were only used for fills. This track has huge long tom beat sections.

Anyway - I've lowered them and gated the floor toms a couple of posts above.

[Armistice]

In SSD4 I play with the envelope shape and really sharpen it so they don't ring forever. I'm only ever putting a hit or two in, however - not doing serious tom bashing - so it's sort of gating, but I do it in the drum program rather than using a plug-in - the excess ringing isn't created in the first place. Then I put a little reverb on them so you get a bit of ambience.

Like the entire envelope is over in about a second. I vary the length by tom size.

The default setting is probably just hitting a tom, mic'd, and they can ring for a long time and get very murky very quickly. Not sure how real toms are mixed but I'm assuming they're gated to some extent - so I'm sort of working at the source, rather than later, because it's possible with sample drums.

[Greg_L]

I don't know what other people do but I gate my toms for the space between the tom hits. Not the sustain. My gates have slow closing times. I want all of the tom sound. I just don't want all the bleed from the rest of the kit leading up to the tom parts.

[Farview]

I would brighten the toms up, that will make it so you can turn them down to the point that the mud isn't an issue. A high shelf at 8k should work.

[JD01]

I would brighten the toms up, that will make it so you can turn them down to the point that the mud isn't an issue. A high shelf at 8k should work.

Thats not a bad idea actually - if I can't get a balance between hearing them and them being too loud in my mix I'll try this.

[Greg_L]

Thats not a bad idea actually - if I can't get a balance between hearing them and them being too loud in my mix I'll try this.

It's worth a try. Watch that they don't end up sounding "plasticky" though.

[JD01]

Thats not a bad idea actually - if I can't get a balance between hearing them and them being too loud in my mix I'll try this.

It's worth a try. Watch that they don't end up sounding "plasticky" though.

Yeah. That was a common criticism of my previous tom sound.

[Farview]

As a warning, I tend to favor slick, over-produced sounds. So your mileage may vary.

The trick would be to accentuate a frequency that gives you more attack but doesn't interfere with the guitar. If 8k seems too synthetic, try a bell somewhere between 3k and 5k.

You are just trying to balance the attack and the resonance so the toms can be heard without being overbearing.

[Greg_L]

Yeah there's a point, if you sweep the EQ curve, where you can focus on the stick attack. It's literally the sound of a stick tip hitting the drum skin. It varies but I think that 3k-5k range is where you'll find it. The attack does matter and subtle things like the stick's tip shape and tip material even makes a difference in how the attack sounds. You obviously can't do anything about that with samples but you should be able to hone in on where the attack happens and see if you like what's there.